Nurse Refusing Quarantine

[Nice Squirrel]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/29/health/us-ebola/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Government agencies in Maine are in the process of filing a court order to require Kaci Hickox -- a nurse now in the state after recently treating Ebola patients in West Africa -- to be quarantined, a Maine official said Wednesday. Hickox and her lawyers said earlier in the day that she would not obey officials' instructions to seclude herself at home.

A nurse who was quarantined against her will in New Jersey after treating Ebola patients in West Africa will not obey officials' instructions to seclude herself at home in Maine, she and her lawyers said on NBC's "Today" show and in the Bangor Daily News.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There's no reason to quarantine them so long as they aren't showing any symptoms.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There's no reason to quarantine them so long as they aren't showing any symptoms.

Didn't she also test negative for Ebola?

 

[bilby]

Of course there is a reason to quarantine people - it is just that it is a political reason, not a medical one.

Spreading fear makes people conservative in their voting preferences. Medically needless Ebola quarantines keep Ebola in the news, and stoke the climate of fear that is oh-so beneficial to the GOP a week out from polling day.

The great thing about it is that it doesn't matter whether Ebola is a real threat; and it doesn't matter whether or not people are quarantined; All that matters is that people talk about it.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Color my liberal ass conservative on this one. I agree with the quarantine.

"So I think there are things that, I know, work. And I know all aid workers are willing to do those things," said Hickox. "But I'm not willing to stand here and let my civil rights be violated when it's not science-based."

She sounds like a quack too. Is she saying she's willing to have her civil rights violated if it is science based?

Like I said, I hear a duck.

 

[bilby]

Color my liberal ass conservative on this one. I agree with the quarantine.

Based on your detailed knowledge of virology and epidemiology; or based on being scared?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Color my liberal ass conservative on this one. I agree with the quarantine.

Based on your detailed knowledge of virology and epidemiology; or based on being scared?

Based on other people returning from treating patients and having ebola when they didn't know they had ebola.

Is she going after publicity or is she really trying to help people? If she's genuinely trying to help people I'd think she'd see reason in a quarantine.

 

[bilby]

Based on your detailed knowledge of virology and epidemiology; or based on being scared?

Based on other people returning from treating patients and having ebola when they didn't know they had ebola.

Is she going after publicity or is she really trying to help people? If she's genuinely trying to help people I'd think she'd see reason in a quarantine.

You can count the number of people who returned to the US from treating Ebola and were found to have Ebola on the fingers of one hand.

You can count the number of Americans who have contracted Ebola in the US and died, on the fingers of one foot.

Would you volunteer to spend 21 days under strict house arrest because you might have the flu? If you resisted such an unreasonable imposition, would that just be 'going after publicity'?

Of course, the risk profiles for Influenza and Ebola are very different - a person with influenza wandering the streets of a US city is far more likely to cause deaths in others than is a person with Ebola - in part because someone infectious with Ebola isn't fit to wander anywhere for very long.

Ebola is very nasty, if you catch it; but it is very hard to catch - that's why there are still people in Africa.

 

[Under the Rose]

Given that the WHO states the incubation period to be 2-21 days and that the first symptoms of Ebola are similar to several other diseases, by the time someone is symptomatic, others have been exposed. The quarantine or at leat close monitoring must then be extended to all who have been exposed if this disease is to be managed and contained. This outbreak seems to be more easily transmitted than previous ones by reports I have been reading.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/top-eb...orse-than-weve-ever-seen-before-video/5409024

That and I have zero confidence on people turning themselves in for treatment on the 'honor' system.

On the positive side, the infection rate seems to be slowing in Liberia, according to the CBC NEWS of this evening.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Color my liberal ass conservative on this one. I agree with the quarantine.

"So I think there are things that, I know, work. And I know all aid workers are willing to do those things," said Hickox. "But I'm not willing to stand here and let my civil rights be violated when it's not science-based."

She sounds like a quack too. Is she saying she's willing to have her civil rights violated if it is science based?

Like I said, I hear a duck.

It's a good thing to have her civil rights violated if it's science based. If imposing a medical quarantine on someone will actually help stop the spread of an epidemic, then it's bad to allow them to ignore the quarantine.

 

[Sabine Grant]

Given that the WHO states the incubation period to be 2-21 days and that the first symptoms of Ebola are similar to several other diseases, by the time someone is symptomatic, others have been exposed.

Considering this case concerns a health care worker who can easily monitor her vitals twice a day and check with the CDC twice a day (that is the actual measure mandated by the CDC), what is the risk of "exposing" others keeping in mind that contamination occurs due to direct contact with bodily fluids/secretions? The early onset symptom being fever and not symptoms resulting in the emission of bodily fluids/secretions.

The quarantine or at leat close monitoring must then be extended to all who have been exposed if this disease is to be managed and contained. This outbreak seems to be more easily transmitted than previous ones by reports I have been reading.

There is a vast difference between "close monitoring" (mandated by the CDC) which consists in checking vitals twice a day and checking in with the CDC twice a day and quarantine. The monitoring in question intended to detect fever as it is the early onset of symptoms related to Ebola and an indication of possible infection affecting medical personnel returning to the US from all 3 Western African nations.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/top-eb...orse-than-weve-ever-seen-before-video/5409024

That and I have zero confidence on people turning themselves in for treatment on the 'honor' system.

There is no indication that contamination occurs by any other mean than direct contact with bodily fluids/secretions of infectious Ebola patients. I had covered in another "Ebola thread" which factors facilitated the epidemic in Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea. None of those apply to a First World nation like the US. The fact that NONE of Mr Duncan's ( Liberian subject one) relatives were contaminated despite of several days of close proximity with him, from the early onset(fever) to increasing symptoms, is evidence that this strain of Ebola is not as easily transmittable as it is claimed in some reports.

As to "people turning themselves in for treatment", this case specifically relates to medical personnel returning from Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea. Why would such specialized and trained medical professionals not check their vitals under the CDC measures or detect an onset of fever and not report to the local health dept. authorities so they may be immediately placed in isolation and be tested? Those are people who are fully aware of the consequences of not being treated as early as possible.

So far, there has been one case of one physician (currently in isolation and being treated) who after returning from Western Africa, the same morning he monitored his temperature and detected it was elevated, immediately contacted the health depart in N.Y and was placed in isolation, tested and is being treated. The 2 US nurses (now released after being successfully treated) who got contaminated in the course of treating Mr Duncan, both relied on elevated temperature "to turn themselves in". There is no indication that any of the people they came in contact with prior to their reporting their temperature status was contaminated.

On the positive side, the infection rate seems to be slowing in Liberia, according to the CBC NEWS of this evening.

And that thanks to the import of First World Nations medical personnel who volunteer their skills , time and energy assisting locally in containment measures. To include someone like Mr Boiko who went to Liberia to assist the Liberian administration in setting up an efficient contact tracing system. Mr Boiko is not a health care worker, at no time was treating Ebola infectious patients, his activities being limited to leaving his hotel daily to go to an administrative building in Monrovia and YET was placed in quarantine as he returned to his home state in Connecticut.

What such drastic measures convey to the US general public is that Ebola is easily transmittable by other means than coming in direct contact with an infectious person's bodily fluids/secretions. Which the science does not support at all.

 

[Sabine Grant]

Color my liberal ass conservative on this one. I agree with the quarantine.

I do not and I have expanded on as to why.

"So I think there are things that, I know, work. And I know all aid workers are willing to do those things," said Hickox. "But I'm not willing to stand here and let my civil rights be violated when it's not science-based."

She sounds like a quack too. Is she saying she's willing to have her civil rights violated if it is science based?

She is far from sounding like a quack as she clearly relies on science rather than irrational fear propagated by politicians who are far from relying on science. If she sounds like a "quack", then I must be sounding like a "quack" too as I do pay attention to science rather than giving in to irrational fear fueling claims. Further, I am certain that if she were medically pronounced Ebola infected as the result of a medical diagnosis (rather than non scientifically supported speculations from moronic politicians), she would have no issue being placed in isolation and be treated.

Like I said, I hear a duck.

I am hearing and listening to the voice of a medical professional who is educated and informed about the difference between a scientifically supported argument and one being the product of political moron-ism.

The current CDC mandate of checking vitals twice a day and reporting the results to the CDC twice a day is sufficient and adequate. There is no need to impose a mandated quarantine on health care workers known to have treated infected and infectious Ebola patients. I suppose Governor Christie and other Governors who took the same moronic path as he did ought to then suggest that medical personnel in the US who have treated the 2 now released nurses should also be placed in quarantine.Add the ones who are currently treating the most recent Ebola diagnosed patient, a physician from MSF who had just returned from Western Africa.

To add that the heads of various humanitarian medical organizations manned by physicians and nurses who volunteer their skills, time and energy in Western Africa, all oppose the unnecessary drastic measure of imposed quarantine upon their return and that because they are well informed and educated versus moronic politicians. I suppose they all sound like "quacks" too.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Well, Sabine, were I ill and in hospital I would want you to care for me. You can even append "political moron - should not vote" on my chart. And you can take counsel from bilby toward that end. I merely think that 21 days is moderate and prudent, not harsh, and think she is making too much of the issue. She's not going into isolation or being quarantined for months. She's not typhoid Mary. So we merely disagree. Good on us.

 

[Warpoet]

Well, Sabine, were I ill and in hospital I would want you to care for me. You can even append "political moron - should not vote" on my chart. And you can take counsel from bilby toward that end. I merely think that 21 days is moderate and prudent, not harsh, and think she is making too much of the issue. She's not going into isolation or being quarantined for months. She's not typhoid Mary. So we merely disagree. Good on us.

She's the one making too much of the issue? Not the people who want to place her in quarantine for three weeks even though there is no rational basis for doing so?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well, Sabine, were I ill and in hospital I would want you to care for me. You can even append "political moron - should not vote" on my chart. And you can take counsel from bilby toward that end. I merely think that 21 days is moderate and prudent, not harsh, and think she is making too much of the issue. She's not going into isolation or being quarantined for months. She's not typhoid Mary. So we merely disagree. Good on us.

When was the last time she was exposed to ebola? That is Day One. People keep thinking that day one is when touch American soil. There should be a protocol. No mass transit transportation and personal screening. But otherwise, Ebola isn't this wildly contagious disease that it is being made out to be. The Liberian that died only contracted the disease to two nurses... from his second visit.

Enforcing a 21 day quarantine will lessen the likelihood of people helping out in cases like this in Africa in the future. They can't afford to go off the grid for nearly a month after the fact.

 

[untermensche]

To impose a three week quarantine on somebody is a violation of their liberty.

We can rationally violate people's liberty if there are good reasons for doing so.

It is a violation of my liberty to make me stop at red lights and obey traffic lines. But there are good reasons.

Being afraid, or in the case of Christie from New Jersey, having political aspirations, aren't good reason.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think it is ironic that gun lovers (not gun owners, but the people that obsess over gun ownership) seem to have no trouble with Government forcing people to be quarantined even if they test negative for a disease. Yet, when it comes to licensing a gun... they take issue with the Government becoming involved.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

I believe the rational basis is irrational fear.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I think it is ironic that gun lovers (not gun owners, but the people that obsess over gun ownership) seem to have no trouble with Government forcing people to be quarantined even if they test negative for a disease. Yet, when it comes to licensing a gun... they take issue with the Government becoming involved.

LOL. We already have Godwin's Law and maybe we should have Higgins Law too.

And yes, we are all government, at least in this country.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think it is ironic that gun lovers (not gun owners, but the people that obsess over gun ownership) seem to have no trouble with Government forcing people to be quarantined even if they test negative for a disease. Yet, when it comes to licensing a gun... they take issue with the Government becoming involved.

LOL. We already have Godwin's Law and maybe we should have Higgins Law too.

And yes, we are all government, at least in this country.

What, that all conversations eventually involve talking about gun ownership?