Nutrition (Sugar/Fat/etc...)

[Jimmy Higgins]

So I saw a recipe online for ice cream. Called for 1 can of sweetened condensed milk and three cups of heavy cream. I think to myself... my gawd, that is 1200 to 1300 calories a cup.

So I look at the comments, and people are worrying about the sugar content in the recipe. And all I can think is "Well, yeah, if you are diabetic, sure... but sweetened condensed milk and three cups of heavy cream?!" Worrying about the sugar in that recipe is like worrying about the sugar in your small soda at McDonald's... that is sitting next to a pair of double quarter pounders and a large fries.

 

[J842P]

So I saw a recipe online for ice cream. Called for 1 can of sweetened condensed milk and three cups of heavy cream. I think to myself... my gawd, that is 1200 to 1300 calories a cup.

So I look at the comments, and people are worrying about the sugar content in the recipe. And all I can think is "Well, yeah, if you are diabetic, sure... but sweetened condensed milk and three cups of heavy cream?!" Worrying about the sugar in that recipe is like worrying about the sugar in your small soda at McDonald's... that is sitting next to a pair of double quarter pounders and a large fries.

In general, I've found, you can eat as much high-fat foods as you want and not gain weight. It's the sugar that'll do it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So I saw a recipe online for ice cream. Called for 1 can of sweetened condensed milk and three cups of heavy cream. I think to myself... my gawd, that is 1200 to 1300 calories a cup.

So I look at the comments, and people are worrying about the sugar content in the recipe. And all I can think is "Well, yeah, if you are diabetic, sure... but sweetened condensed milk and three cups of heavy cream?!" Worrying about the sugar in that recipe is like worrying about the sugar in your small soda at McDonald's... that is sitting next to a pair of double quarter pounders and a large fries.

In general, I've found, you can eat as much high-fat foods as you want and not gain weight. It's the sugar that'll do it.

High fat? That ice cream isn't high fat, it is ultra fat. It makes cheesecake factory look like Lean Cuisine.

 

[Underseer]

So I saw a recipe online for ice cream. Called for 1 can of sweetened condensed milk and three cups of heavy cream. I think to myself... my gawd, that is 1200 to 1300 calories a cup.

So I look at the comments, and people are worrying about the sugar content in the recipe. And all I can think is "Well, yeah, if you are diabetic, sure... but sweetened condensed milk and three cups of heavy cream?!" Worrying about the sugar in that recipe is like worrying about the sugar in your small soda at McDonald's... that is sitting next to a pair of double quarter pounders and a large fries.

In general, I've found, you can eat as much high-fat foods as you want and not gain weight. It's the sugar that'll do it.

High fat? That ice cream isn't high fat, it is ultra fat. It makes cheesecake factory look like Lean Cuisine.

We have been trained to be fat-averse because of research that turned out to be manipulated by the sugar industry.

Worry more about getting good fat instead of bad fat.

But definitely cut back on sugar.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

High fat? That ice cream isn't high fat, it is ultra fat. It makes cheesecake factory look like Lean Cuisine.

We have been trained to be fat-averse because of research that turned out to be manipulated by the sugar industry.

Worry more about getting good fat instead of bad fat.

But definitely cut back on sugar.

Heck, cutting out soda and fruit juice alone can cut 10 to 20% calories out of a diet.

But back to the ice cream, that is over 80 gr of fat a cup. That is near 3 ounces! That is 3/4 stick of butter.

 

[J842P]

High fat? That ice cream isn't high fat, it is ultra fat. It makes cheesecake factory look like Lean Cuisine.

We have been trained to be fat-averse because of research that turned out to be manipulated by the sugar industry.

Worry more about getting good fat instead of bad fat.

But definitely cut back on sugar.

Heck, cutting out soda and fruit juice alone can cut 10 to 20% calories out of a diet.

But back to the ice cream, that is over 80 gr of fat a cup. That is near 3 ounces! That is 3/4 stick of butter.

Yeah, so? If you actually eat these very high fat foods your body won't absorb all of it. You'll see the evidence in your poop (which will start to float, and then if high fat enough, will have blobs of undigested fat in it).

You should think of the calories on the nutrition information as an *upper bound*. The bioavailability of different macronutrients will ultimately affect the "bottom line", so to speak. Two-hundred calories from a handful of almonds is not the same as two-hundred calories from a soda.

 

[DBT]

Heavy sugar hits don't do anyone much good, diabetic or not. Constantly spiking blood sugar may cause systemic damage over time, regardless.

 

[rousseau]

Most of the research I've done on fat warns about saturated and trans fats. It's less about weight gain and more about circulatory diseases.

I also liked the video Underseer posted about sugar a couple days ago:



Refined sugar is one of those things that people are addicted to but because it's consumption is so normalized they don't question their own habits. They just constantly scoff that shit down until they're dangerously overweight.

I used to eat a lot of it too until I made a conscious, willful decision to start removing it from my diet. As I ate less and less of it I started craving it less too. Nowadays I'm more sugar-averse than anything. I love fruit and natural sugars in moderation, but candy and energy dense food.. usually pass.

 

[PyramidHead]

I agree with J824P, and this has actually been tested anecdotally by some dude who tried to eat as many calories as he possibly could, but without any carbs. He actually lost weight faster than he ever imagined.

There's also this collection of factoids about the old calories in - calories out myth, and how it doesn't apply when you take out carbohydrates.

For my part, I've eaten nothing but meat and cheese for the past ~6 months and have never been thinner or healthier. I choose only the fattiest cuts and don't cook them for too long. I eat all the bacon I want, have delicious juicy steak every other day, slather butter on whatever I can, and feel like a million bucks all the time. I really hate to phrase it like some kind of "red pill" thing, but it really is. There is no better way to get healthy than to stop eating plants altogether and let your body run on fat like it's optimized to do.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm definitely appreciating that carbs are definitely something that adds to a diet quickly. I've dropped *women don't look*

Show

21 pounds in less than three months

by dropping caloric sodas and limiting carbs. Still, not the healthiest I have been (used to race triathlons, so that is a very high bar), but getting close to pretty good for a person that doesn't work out.

However, I hadn't considered absorbability (yes, Chrome, that is a word... for now) of fats. I'd need to look deeper into that as I still have doubts. Don't get me wrong, if eating sharp cheddar isn't going to cause weight gain, I'm all for it!

Regardless, someone is free to eat one cup of the ice cream in the OP for a week and let us know if they don't gain weight.

 

[PyramidHead]

I'm definitely appreciating that carbs are definitely something that adds to a diet quickly. I've dropped *women don't look*

Show

21 pounds in less than three months

by dropping caloric sodas and limiting carbs. Still, not the healthiest I have been (used to race triathlons, so that is a very high bar), but getting close to pretty good for a person that doesn't work out.

Yeah, doing a lot of endurance sports on a low-carb diet can be challenging. But it's possible, from what I've read and people I know who do it (the "paleo" crowd that's into Crossfit). It actually takes a while to get your system totally on board with burning fat for fuel all the time, especially if you've been eating a standard Western diet for a while. Gut microbes tend to not be very happy when you take away their sweet snacks.

However, I hadn't considered absorbability (yes, Chrome, that is a word... for now) of fats. I'd need to look deeper into that as I still have doubts. Don't get me wrong, if eating sharp cheddar isn't going to cause weight gain, I'm all for it!

Regardless, someone is free to eat one cup of the ice cream in the OP for a week and let us know if they don't gain weight.

For sure, they'll gain weight from the ice cream. I was just pointing out that it's the sugar and not the fat that would be the culprit. Fat from food is actually not very efficiently taken up by cells; most of the fat on your body is made by your body in response to signals, not literally transferred from the bacon to your thighs. Same goes for cholesterol... I think less than 10% of the cholesterol you consume gets into your bloodstream, it's mostly cells manufacturing it due to insulin spiking. So, sharp cheddar by itself will not cause you to gain any weight, unless you eat it with crackers.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm definitely appreciating that carbs are definitely something that adds to a diet quickly. I've dropped *women don't look*

Show

21 pounds in less than three months

by dropping caloric sodas and limiting carbs. Still, not the healthiest I have been (used to race triathlons, so that is a very high bar), but getting close to pretty good for a person that doesn't work out.

Yeah, doing a lot of endurance sports on a low-carb diet can be challenging.

I actually ate a box of frozen Banquet Chicken the night before a race with idea that protein and fat were both good things (recovery/energy).

But it's possible, from what I've read and people I know who do it (the "paleo" crowd that's into Crossfit). It actually takes a while to get your system totally on board with burning fat for fuel all the time, especially if you've been eating a standard Western diet for a while. Gut microbes tend to not be very happy when you take away their sweet snacks.

Being a vegetarian and running wasn't easy. I definitely up'd the carbs, but weight wasn't an issue yet... because... running.

However, I hadn't considered absorbability (yes, Chrome, that is a word... for now) of fats. I'd need to look deeper into that as I still have doubts. Don't get me wrong, if eating sharp cheddar isn't going to cause weight gain, I'm all for it!

Regardless, someone is free to eat one cup of the ice cream in the OP for a week and let us know if they don't gain weight.

For sure, they'll gain weight from the ice cream. I was just pointing out that it's the sugar and not the fat that would be the culprit.

The ice cream doesn't have too much sugar. A cup of the ice cream in the OP is equivalent to eating 3/4 of a stick of butter.

Fat from food is actually not very efficiently taken up by cells; most of the fat on your body is made by your body in response to signals, not literally transferred from the bacon to your thighs. Same goes for cholesterol... I think less than 10% of the cholesterol you consume gets into your bloodstream, it's mostly cells manufacturing it due to insulin spiking.

My egg intake has increased, as it is a low cal, high protein food. A high amount of cholesterol though. I don't have high cholesterol though, at least not yet.

So, sharp cheddar by itself will not cause you to gain any weight, unless you eat it with crackers.

There in lies that problem.

Clearly, if calories from sugar are much worse than fat, our labeling is seriously messed up.

 

[rousseau]

Friends of my partners did the keto diet which is similar to that mentioned above. At first it made no sense at all to me, but I've seen first hand evidence that they've lost weight. Granted I think that is partly because without adequate carbs you're basically starving yourself on the regular.

 

[rousseau]

So, sharp cheddar by itself will not cause you to gain any weight, unless you eat it with crackers.

There in lies that problem.

Clearly, if calories from sugar are much worse than fat, our labeling is seriously messed up.

I wouldn't be worried about your weight, I'd be worried about cholesterol and saturated fats.

I can understand that a diet that's low in carbs would be good for weight-loss, but I'm not convinced that a diet that's high in fat is great for you either, at least as far as longevity is concerned.

 

[PyramidHead]

My egg intake has increased, as it is a low cal, high protein food. A high amount of cholesterol though. I don't have high cholesterol though, at least not yet.

I've heard that it's not the amount of cholesterol in your blood that matters, or even the ratio (HDL and LDL are literally the same molecule heading in different directions), but the shape. The nasty outcomes associated with cholesterol happen when the cholesterol particles are small and dense as opposed to "fluffy". You can have high cholesterol with no problems as long as it's fluffy, apparently. Which makes some sense, as your body is constantly making and using cholesterol for cells and stuff. Again, excess carbs are implicated in going from the fluffy type to the dense type.

There in lies that problem.

Clearly, if calories from sugar are much worse than fat, our labeling is seriously messed up.

Yep. The recommendations for daily nutrient intake are pretty screwy too, and aren't backed up by anything.

 

[rousseau]

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...tries-have-the-healthiest-diets-a6971466.html

This points to the Mediterranean diet being the healthiest of most diets around the world. Healthy fats, modest amount of carbs, fresh foods.. etc

 

[PyramidHead]

So, sharp cheddar by itself will not cause you to gain any weight, unless you eat it with crackers.

There in lies that problem.

Clearly, if calories from sugar are much worse than fat, our labeling is seriously messed up.

I wouldn't be worried about your weight, I'd be worried about cholesterol and saturated fats.

I can understand that a diet that's low in carbs would be good for weight-loss, but I'm not convinced that a diet that's high in fat is great for you either, at least as far as longevity is concerned.

I'm starting to come around to the idea that saturated fat is actually very good for you. Much of the research these days seems to point in that direction, and the old research is being exposed for not controlling for other factors, notably carbohydrate intake, that everybody now agrees play a huge role in health.

 

[rousseau]

I wouldn't be worried about your weight, I'd be worried about cholesterol and saturated fats.

I can understand that a diet that's low in carbs would be good for weight-loss, but I'm not convinced that a diet that's high in fat is great for you either, at least as far as longevity is concerned.

I'm starting to come around to the idea that saturated fat is actually very good for you. Much of the research these days seems to point in that direction, and the old research is being exposed for not controlling for other factors, notably carbohydrate intake, that everybody now agrees play a huge role in health.

Fair enough. Everything I've read states otherwise... I'm all ears if you can provide evidence to the contrary.

 

[rousseau]

The truth about fats: the good, the bad, and the in-between

This is from 2017, which points to the studies you mention. This quote seems to sum it up well:

One meta-analysis of 21 studies said that there was not enough evidence to conclude that saturated fat increases the risk of heart disease, but that replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat may indeed reduce risk of heart disease.

At this stage of the game it feels like roulette to me. I'd rather just stray away from red meat and toward seafood.

 

[PyramidHead]

The truth about fats: the good, the bad, and the in-between

This is from 2017, which points to the studies you mention. This quote seems to sum it up well:

One meta-analysis of 21 studies said that there was not enough evidence to conclude that saturated fat increases the risk of heart disease, but that replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat may indeed reduce risk of heart disease.

At this stage of the game it feels like roulette to me. I'd rather just stray away from red meat and toward seafood.

This page, and really the whole site, is a good source of information about the emerging picture of nutrition that goes against much of what was established in the last century. I would also recommend her article on cholesterol.

You're correct of course that the book is not open-and-shut by any means. But really, different diets that all occupy the same neighborhood of "stay away from food that is obviously trash" are probably on relatively equal footing when you consider the vast range of eating styles our species has dabbled in. We're not going to live forever anyway.