Op-ed: the 5 scariest things I saw working at a "health food" store

[Underseer]

http://www.backfromnature.org/2015/03/5-scariest-things-i-saw-working-at.html

This shit is absolutely terrifying.

Those "alternative medicine" nuts keep complaining about "big pharma," but somehow they don't seem to understand what's wrong with supporting an industry that can legally make any health claim they feel like without having to use science to back up any of their claims.

The last story is probably the most frightening. A middle aged man paid a lot of money to cause his own heart attack, and ignored warnings that what he was doing was dangerous. Why did he do it? Naturalistic fallacy. He was warned that the drugs he was taking were dangerous, especially for someone with high blood pressure, but he assumed that the warnings were wrong because the drugs were "natural."

 

[Peez]

http://www.backfromnature.org/2015/03/5-scariest-things-i-saw-working-at.html

This shit is absolutely terrifying.

Those "alternative medicine" nuts keep complaining about "big pharma," but somehow they don't seem to understand what's wrong with supporting an industry that can legally make any health claim they feel like without having to use science to back up any of their claims.

The last story is probably the most frightening. A middle aged man paid a lot of money to cause his own heart attack, and ignored warnings that what he was doing was dangerous. Why did he do it? Naturalistic fallacy. He was warned that the drugs he was taking were dangerous, especially for someone with high blood pressure, but he assumed that the warnings were wrong because the drugs were "natural."

Thanks for the link.

Peez

 

[Perspicuo]

There is nothing wrong with health food and [some] alternative medicine. It's the conspiracy paranoia that makes it deadly. It attracts schizophrenics, schizotypals and, very very sad to say, victims of severe abuse.

Many of these people, when you look well into their biographies, have every reason in the world to feel the shadow of authoritarian persecution, every reason to feel afraid. It's called displacement. It's not "The Man", it's "the old man" they're terrified and angry about.

 

[Underseer]

I have to disagree, Perspicuo. There is very much something wrong with "health" food and "alternative" medicine: it's based on unsubstantiated claims that are not verified by science.

People should not be encouraged to spend money on something that at best does not deliver what is promised and at worst can kill you. I see nothing of value in encouraging this industry.

 

[Eldarion Lathria]

Clean nourishing food is healthy. Why don't chiroquactors, homeopaths, herb doctors have pet ducks? They don't want to be reminded of what they are.

QUACK! QUACK! QUACK!

Eldarion Lathria

 

[fromderinside]

Please sent $1,000,000.00 to www.yougottabecrazytoevenreadthissitnamebecauseitisnotreal.lv

All you need to know is its about Health

its a joke but the site you get when you click is appropriate.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What doesn't kill you, probably just gets pissed out of your endocrine system.

There is nothing wrong with health food and [some] alternative medicine.

The two local places near me have an alarming amount of alternative stuff. I remember one in Florida was almost exclusively pills, virtually no food. The stuff is expensive and there is little to no literature supporting almost any of it.

On the AM radio over the weekend I heard there was great progress studying olives and how they last forever and now you can get a whole bottle of what allegedly contains some compound found in an olive for free! That is how much they stand behind their product!

Nearly the entire industry is evil. So many of these products don't even contain what they claim to contain! We created an FDA to stop that... and Congress in the 80s worked real hard to stop the FDA from stopping that.

 

[Warpoet]

I have to disagree, Perspicuo. There is very much something wrong with "health" food and "alternative" medicine: it's based on unsubstantiated claims that are not verified by science.

You are making generalizations almost as bad as what's described in the OP. Something is not evil because it has the words "healthy" or "alternative" attached to it, just like it's not evil or poisonous simply because it was made by a pharmaceutical company.

There is a massive problem of non-existent regulation, the sort of batshit thinking in the OP, and people expecting employees at health food stores or vitamin stores to replace doctors and nutritionists. But there's nothing wrong with people doing their own research on the efficacy of products and making informed decisions for themselves.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

There is a massive problem of non-existent regulation, the sort of batshit thinking in the OP, and people expecting employees at health food stores or vitamin stores to replace doctors and nutritionists. But there's nothing wrong with people doing their own research on the efficacy of products and making informed decisions for themselves.

Except that you, me, everyone else and these companies in particular know damn well that 90% of their customers aren't going to do that or are going to do a very poor job of that and mistake the companies' advertising campaigns for scientific literature.

While there's an argument to be made that this makes it those customers' own damn fault, one of the roles of government should be to help ensure that defrauding patsies to take their money by lying to them and misrepresenting their product shouldn't be a viable business model within their jurisdiction.

 

[Warpoet]

Except that you, me, everyone else and these companies in particular know damn well that 90% of their customers aren't going to do that or are going to do a very poor job of that and mistake the companies' advertising campaigns for scientific literature.

While there's an argument to be made that this makes it those customers' own damn fault, one of the roles of government should be to help ensure that defrauding patsies to take their money by lying to them and misrepresenting their product shouldn't be a viable business model within their jurisdiction.

That's why I said "there is a massive problem of non-existent regulation." The "industry" is just that: people trying to make money off of schmucks, the same as any other industry, and condemning it writ large and claiming it's of no potential value because it's not properly regulated is silly. You can argue that it has added responsibility because peoples' health is involved, but that rings hollow too. Allow pharmaceutical companies to market and sell their products without any sort of regulation and see what percentage of the population hasn't died within a year.

 

[Underseer]

The regulation part of this discussion is so bizarre.

Conservolibertarians have been telling us for years that unregulated industries always produce superior results to regulated industries, therefore we should deregulate everything. So here we have two competing industries, one heavily regulated and one completely unregulated (except for the fact that they have to mention in fine print that they didn't go through the government screening products that regular drugs have to go through).

So which industry do rightists trust? Which industry to rightists avoid? It's almost as if rightists don't believe their own rhetoric.

 

[spikepipsqueak]

I have to disagree, Perspicuo. There is very much something wrong with "health" food and "alternative" medicine: it's based on unsubstantiated claims that are not verified by science.

People should not be encouraged to spend money on something that at best does not deliver what is promised and at worst can kill you. I see nothing of value in encouraging this industry.

Underseer, you know I love you like a brother, but you are talking through your arse.

Perhaps you could amend your statement to specify the health food industry as it is conducted in the US.

The person who wrote that article made sales, and sent people out of the shop lacking advice, that I consider immoral and so would anyone I have ever known in the industry. And they did it after claiming to be knowledgeable.

Your benighted country evidently allows people to poison other people in the name of free enterprise, and in the case above, making a commission.

Other countries stringently test supplements. Health food shops are excellent sources of nutritional advice. I personally have sent lots of people off to the doctors, declining to make sales that weren't in the best interest of the customer. This is not uncommon in places where the atmosphere is a little less dog-eat-dog.

I am basically asking you to be a little more accurate/specific in your claims. The US is not the whole world, it isn't even most of it.

 

[paladin.oa]

http://www.backfromnature.org/2015/03/5-scariest-things-i-saw-working-at.html

This shit is absolutely terrifying.

Those "alternative medicine" nuts keep complaining about "big pharma," but somehow they don't seem to understand what's wrong with supporting an industry that can legally make any health claim they feel like without having to use science to back up any of their claims.

The last story is probably the most frightening. A middle aged man paid a lot of money to cause his own heart attack, and ignored warnings that what he was doing was dangerous. Why did he do it? Naturalistic fallacy. He was warned that the drugs he was taking were dangerous, especially for someone with high blood pressure, but he assumed that the warnings were wrong because the drugs were "natural."

While I agree that the Naturalistic Fallacy is stupid shit, anyone wanna inject themselves with all natural King Cobra venom?, the scariest for me was the dumbass with the open MRSA wound. Stupid shithead was spreading that shit far and wide, just hope no one with a weak or compromised immune system got it and needed to go to the hospital for it.

 

[Underseer]

I have to disagree, Perspicuo. There is very much something wrong with "health" food and "alternative" medicine: it's based on unsubstantiated claims that are not verified by science.

People should not be encouraged to spend money on something that at best does not deliver what is promised and at worst can kill you. I see nothing of value in encouraging this industry.

Underseer, you know I love you like a brother, but you are talking through your arse.

Perhaps you could amend your statement to specify the health food industry as it is conducted in the US.

The person who wrote that article made sales, and sent people out of the shop lacking advice, that I consider immoral and so would anyone I have ever known in the industry. And they did it after claiming to be knowledgeable.

Your benighted country evidently allows people to poison other people in the name of free enterprise, and in the case above, making a commission.

Other countries stringently test supplements. Health food shops are excellent sources of nutritional advice. I personally have sent lots of people off to the doctors, declining to make sales that weren't in the best interest of the customer. This is not uncommon in places where the atmosphere is a little less dog-eat-dog.

I am basically asking you to be a little more accurate/specific in your claims. The US is not the whole world, it isn't even most of it.

To be fair, alternative medicine does exist in other countries. The UK and China to name two examples.

 

[skepticalbip]

To be fair, alternative medicine does exist in other countries. The UK and China to name two examples.

Naming countries where alternative medicine exists is easy. Trying to name a country where it doesn't is probably impossible.

 

[spikepipsqueak]

Underseer, you know I love you like a brother, but you are talking through your arse.

Perhaps you could amend your statement to specify the health food industry as it is conducted in the US.

The person who wrote that article made sales, and sent people out of the shop lacking advice, that I consider immoral and so would anyone I have ever known in the industry. And they did it after claiming to be knowledgeable.

Your benighted country evidently allows people to poison other people in the name of free enterprise, and in the case above, making a commission.

Other countries stringently test supplements. Health food shops are excellent sources of nutritional advice. I personally have sent lots of people off to the doctors, declining to make sales that weren't in the best interest of the customer. This is not uncommon in places where the atmosphere is a little less dog-eat-dog.

I am basically asking you to be a little more accurate/specific in your claims. The US is not the whole world, it isn't even most of it.

To be fair, alternative medicine does exist in other countries. The UK and China to name two examples.

I don't understand your point. Yours is the only Western nation that allows the egregious misrepresentation that you seem to be objecting to.

Others have pointed out that the problem is lack of regulation.

Your article included several examples of the author knowingly selling people stuff that was not fit for purpose, because there was a profit in it.

 

[Underseer]

To be fair, alternative medicine does exist in other countries. The UK and China to name two examples.

I don't understand your point. Yours is the only Western nation that allows the egregious misrepresentation that you seem to be objecting to.

Others have pointed out that the problem is lack of regulation.

Your article included several examples of the author knowingly selling people stuff that was not fit for purpose, because there was a profit in it.

We're not the only nation.

Not only does the UK also have alternative medicine, but their tax dollars go towards supporting it through their health care system.

 

[bigfield]

Do you know what they call "alternative medicine" That's been proved to work?

Medicine.

-- Tim Minchin

Every pharmacy I've visited has a 'natural remedies' section where they peddle echinacea tablets and other naturopathic rubbish. It's a multibillion dollar industry based on little more than anecdotal evidence.

The pharmacists and pharmacy assistants readily recommend these medicines despite the lack of scientific evidence supporting their effectiveness.

These medications may not necessarily poisonous, but people prolong their illnesses by choosing these medicines in place of scientifically-supported medicines.

 

[Warpoet]

These medications may not necessarily poisonous, but people prolong their illnesses by choosing these medicines in place of scientifically-supported medicines.

That depends entirely on what they are buying and what they are using it for. Again, the consumer should ultimately be doing their own research about anything they buy over the counter, "natural" or not, instead of trying to solicit medical advice from low-level customer service employees.

 

[Underseer]

These medications may not necessarily poisonous, but people prolong their illnesses by choosing these medicines in place of scientifically-supported medicines.

That depends entirely on what they are buying and what they are using it for. Again, the consumer should ultimately be doing their own research about anything they buy over the counter, "natural" or not, instead of trying to solicit medical advice from low-level customer service employees.

Seriously?

Doctors are professionally trained to read medical research journals and interpret what they read, and they still get it wrong much of the time. What chance do you think an average citizen who probably doesn't have access to those journals has? There's a reason we formed the FDA and forced drug companies to provide scientific evidence for each and every health claim.