Op-ed: the 5 scariest things I saw working at a "health food" store

[bigfield]

These medications may not necessarily poisonous, but people prolong their illnesses by choosing these medicines in place of scientifically-supported medicines.

That depends entirely on what they are buying and what they are using it for. Again, the consumer should ultimately be doing their own research about anything they buy over the counter, "natural" or not, instead of trying to solicit medical advice from low-level customer service employees.

They should, but they won't, for various reasons.

For example, many people think that anecdotal evidence is a good basis for making decisions about their healthcare. This not only applies to naturopathy, chiropractic etc. but also the proliferation of unqualified diet gurus.

They have also swallowed the 'if it's natural then it's safe' message, where the implication are that mainstream pharmaceuticals are all harmful, and that natural remedies are not useless.

 

[Warpoet]

Seriously?

Doctors are professionally trained to read medical research journals and interpret what they read, and they still get it wrong much of the time. What chance do you think an average citizen who probably doesn't have access to those journals has? There's a reason we formed the FDA and forced drug companies to provide scientific evidence for each and every health claim.

So what? Doctors aren't part of this equation because we're talking about over the counter stuff here. Unless you want to force people to get a prescription for a bottle of cough syrup or vitamin C, yes, the responsibility falls on the consumer to do their own research, and in the age of the internet it's not that hard. Fuck's sake, some people think organic vegetables alone will cure anything. That people are stupid presents a problem, but there's no getting around it and it's not a problem that regulation is going to solve unless you ban everything that could be considered "natural."

As I said before, there are problems presented by the fact that there's no regulation, particularly when it comes to quality control of the actual products. But it's enormously naive to think that government regulation can solve the problem of people not thinking.

 

[Warpoet]

They should, but they won't, for various reasons.

For example, many people think that anecdotal evidence is a good basis for making decisions about their healthcare. This not only applies to naturopathy, chiropractic etc. but also the proliferation of unqualified diet gurus.

Again: so what? That people are stupid is an indictment of people. Some people think a foot massage will cure diabetes, because someone told them so. This is not a problem of lack of regulation, it's a problem of people believing things without doing research. Regulation can't solve this. If you think it can, point me to an example of a single country that has implemented laws that have done so.

They have also swallowed the 'if it's natural then it's safe' message, where the implication are that mainstream pharmaceuticals are all harmful, and that natural remedies are not useless.

Again, they're going to believe these things either way, and government regulation won't change any of it. As for "natural," it's a catch-all term. A lot of what it applies to is useless, some of it isn't, and the only way for a consumer to sort through it all is to use their own head.

 

[bilby]

Seriously?

Doctors are professionally trained to read medical research journals and interpret what they read, and they still get it wrong much of the time. What chance do you think an average citizen who probably doesn't have access to those journals has? There's a reason we formed the FDA and forced drug companies to provide scientific evidence for each and every health claim.

So what? Doctors aren't part of this equation because we're talking about over the counter stuff here. Unless you want to force people to get a prescription for a bottle of cough syrup or vitamin C, yes, the responsibility falls on the consumer to do their own research, and in the age of the internet it's not that hard. Fuck's sake, some people think organic vegetables alone will cure anything. That people are stupid presents a problem, but there's no getting around it and it's not a problem that regulation is going to solve unless you ban everything that could be considered "natural."

As I said before, there are problems presented by the fact that there's no regulation, particularly when it comes to quality control of the actual products. But it's enormously naive to think that government regulation can solve the problem of people not thinking.

The entire prescriptions system is a good example of exactly that solution.

That you don't need a prescription for vitamin C is a feature of the regulatory system, not a bug.

It is completely bizarre that people are so oblivious to the ever present example of government regulation that has largely solved the problem of people not thinking.

To suggest that imagining something that observably exists is 'naïve', is a dreadful indictment of the pervasive anti-government rhetoric in the US today.

The system is designed to protect people from their own stupidity. That it needs tweaking from time to time, to encompass new and improved kinds of stupidity should not be a surprise.

Extending the prescriptions system to encompass OTC treatments would be a perfectly consistent and reasonable response to rising deaths from incorrect use of those treatments.

 

[Warpoet]

The system is designed to protect people from their own stupidity.

Except it doesn't. If it actually did that, then it would ban tobacco, alcohol, fatty foods, and all manner of other things that people gradually kill themselves with day in and day out. And if we're talking immediate harm, you can kill yourself with over the counter sleep aids a hell of a lot easier than you could with just about anything that gets labeled "alternative." This is not about anti-government rhetoric, it's a basic recognition that the state's responsibility goes only so far and that the bulk of it ends up in the individual's lap. There's no way of getting around this.

Extending the prescriptions system to encompass OTC treatments would be a perfectly consistent and reasonable response to rising deaths from incorrect use of those treatments.

No, it's not, and even if it were, it's totally unfeasible. These "rising deaths," if you can actually source them, almost certainly have more to do with a failure to seek out necessary treatment than any harm caused directly by alternative treatments. That seems to be what people are bitching about more than anything. So no, the government isn't going to fix this unless you think it's within its rights to force people to accept treatment they don't want. And if you do, we're not going to get anywhere on this.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The system is designed to protect people from their own stupidity. That it needs tweaking from time to time, to encompass new and improved kinds of stupidity should not be a surprise.

Extending the prescriptions system to encompass OTC treatments would be a perfectly consistent and reasonable response to rising deaths from incorrect use of those treatments.

I disagree. Tobacco and alcohol would be illegal if the OTC/prescription decision was made on a simple danger basis.

Rather, the OTC/prescription decision is based mostly on a matter of whether the drug can be misused (recreational or antibiotic) and whether the situation that warrants it's use or lack of use is something the average person can reasonably decide.

There's also the matter that by default a new drug is prescription, it will only go OTC if someone spends the money to convince the FDA that it should be allowed to be OTC. The FDA likes to see a record of non-problematic use of the drug before approving such an application.

 

[gmbteach]

So what? Doctors aren't part of this equation because we're talking about over the counter stuff here. Unless you want to force people to get a prescription for a bottle of cough syrup or vitamin C, yes, the responsibility falls on the consumer to do their own research, and in the age of the internet it's not that hard. Fuck's sake, some people think organic vegetables alone will cure anything. That people are stupid presents a problem, but there's no getting around it and it's not a problem that regulation is going to solve unless you ban everything that could be considered "natural."

As I said before, there are problems presented by the fact that there's no regulation, particularly when it comes to quality control of the actual products. But it's enormously naive to think that government regulation can solve the problem of people not thinking.

The entire prescriptions system is a good example of exactly that solution.

That you don't need a prescription for vitamin C is a feature of the regulatory system, not a bug.

It is completely bizarre that people are so oblivious to the ever present example of government regulation that has largely solved the problem of people not thinking.

To suggest that imagining something that observably exists is 'naïve', is a dreadful indictment of the pervasive anti-government rhetoric in the US today.

The system is designed to protect people from their own stupidity. That it needs tweaking from time to time, to encompass new and improved kinds of stupidity should not be a surprise.

Extending the prescriptions system to encompass OTC treatments would be a perfectly consistent and reasonable response to rising deaths from incorrect use of those treatments.

Some OTC medicines require a driver's licence or name now, to keep a record of drugs you buy. I am talking things like: Cold and flu tablets and pain relief such as Mercyndol.

 

[skepticalbip]

Some OTC medicines require a driver's licence or name now, to keep a record of drugs you buy. I am talking things like: Cold and flu tablets and pain relief such as Mercyndol.

In the US, they keep a record of OTC antihistamine purchases for the NARCO squad. Antihistamines are used in the production of crack cocaine so anyone purchasing unusual quantities of antihistamine will get a visit from the DEA... likely the same down under.

 

[gmbteach]

Some OTC medicines require a driver's licence or name now, to keep a record of drugs you buy. I am talking things like: Cold and flu tablets and pain relief such as Mercyndol.

In the US, they keep a record of OTC antihistamine purchases for the NARCO squad. Antihistamines are used in the production of crack cocaine so anyone purchasing unusual quantities of antihistamine will get a visit from the DEA... likely the same down under.

Exactly.

 

[bleubird]

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2015/04/02/gnc-herbal-supplements-nutrition
Problem is you do not know what you are buying.Testers could not even find DNA of the herb claimed in many supplements.A $30 billion industry that has no oversight?
Thank you Orin Hatch!

 

[whichphilosophy]

The article cited in the first post seems to be taking rather extreme examples of foolish persons rather than the benefits or disadvantage of Heath foods.
I'm not sure if there is much difference between health foods and their mass produced equivalents but a sensible diet and lifestyle will also be supported by mainstream doctors

 

[Underseer]

The article cited in the first post seems to be taking rather extreme examples of foolish persons rather than the benefits or disadvantage of Heath foods.
I'm not sure if there is much difference between health foods and their mass produced equivalents but a sensible diet and lifestyle will also be supported by mainstream doctors

The article is specific to "health foods" in the United States.

Most of what's in these stores are based on fad diets with no scientific basis, and a lot of "alternative medicine," which are health products with no science to back up any of the health claims. Basically, we're talking about stores that sell things with the claim of being healthy, but with no scientific basis for believing in any of the health benefits of any of the products in those stores.

This tends to attract the type of person who believes that "natural" pesticides that are extracted/processed from natural sources are healthier than pesticides that were synthesized from other chemicals. Even if they're the same exact molecule, the word "natural" proves that it's healthier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy

 

[Trodon]

Health food stores sell healthful foods that are difficult to find in conventional grocery stores, like organic food, ground wheat Bulgar, flax seed oil, and stuff like that.

When it comes to herbal medicine you are pretty much on your own. Do an internet search for what you are thinking about buying, and see what other people think of it.

 

[Underseer]

Health food stores sell healthful foods that are difficult to find in conventional grocery stores, like organic food, ground wheat Bulgar, flax seed oil, and stuff like that.

When it comes to herbal medicine you are pretty much on your own. Do an internet search for what you are thinking about buying, and see what other people think of it.

"Healthful food like organic"?

Uh, are you aware that there is no conclusive scientific evidence that limiting your diet to organic provides any health benefits? You're exactly the sort of person this article is about.

 

[bigfield]

Health food stores sell healthful foods that are difficult to find in conventional grocery stores, like organic food, ground wheat Bulgar, flax seed oil, and stuff like that.

When it comes to herbal medicine you are pretty much on your own. Do an internet search for what you are thinking about buying, and see what other people think of it.

"Healthful food like organic"?

Uh, are you aware that there is no conclusive scientific evidence that limiting your diet to organic provides any health benefits? You're exactly the sort of person this article is about.

Also, this:

Do an internet search for what you are thinking about buying, and see what other people think of it.

That is an incredibly poor way to choose which medicines to use. Anecdotal evidence from credulous laypersons is highly unreliable.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Health food stores sell healthful foods that are difficult to find in conventional grocery stores, like organic food, ground wheat Bulgar, flax seed oil, and stuff like that.

When it comes to herbal medicine you are pretty much on your own. Do an internet search for what you are thinking about buying, and see what other people think of it.

"Healthful food like organic"?

Uh, are you aware that there is no conclusive scientific evidence that limiting your diet to organic provides any health benefits? You're exactly the sort of person this article is about.

Some stores were better at locating alternative food options for vegetarians and vegans. The big box grocery stores, however, have seemed to have caught up decently. Still need to go to the Mustard Seed Market to get TVP. Oddly you can get Gluten at the cheapo grocery market.

I must say, the Internet is a wonderful source to get information on the herbal medicines because you'll find lots and lots of regulatory information and peer review studies after a month or so... after wading through the websites that swear this shit really works.

 

[rjh01]

I have seen ads for "miracle weight loss drug" then done a search for information about the drug on the internet. Always easily found stuff that said it does not work. With medicines prescribed by my doctor easy to find a website that gives more information about the drug than what the doctor knows or is willing to tell me about. The information is out there, you just need to keep your eyes open to find out the information you need to know.

 

[bilby]

I have seen ads for "miracle weight loss drug" then done a search for information about the drug on the internet. Always easily found stuff that said it does not work. With medicines prescribed by my doctor easy to find a website that gives more information about the drug than what the doctor knows or is willing to tell me about. The information is out there, you just need to keep your eyes open to find out the information you need to know.

But the disinformation is also out there, so you also need some way to filter the bullshit out of the information stream.

The weight loss drug will have websites saying how wonderful it is, as well as the ones that say that it doesn't work. How do you pick which to trust?

 

[Kharakov]

I have seen ads for "miracle weight loss drug" then done a search for information about the drug on the internet. Always easily found stuff that said it does not work. With medicines prescribed by my doctor easy to find a website that gives more information about the drug than what the doctor knows or is willing to tell me about. The information is out there, you just need to keep your eyes open to find out the information you need to know.

But the disinformation is also out there, so you also need some way to filter the bullshit out of the information stream.

The weight loss drug will have websites saying how wonderful it is, as well as the ones that say that it doesn't work. How do you pick which to trust?

You're aware that closed loop websites (websites that only link to similar websites, all designed to prop products) are generally the purveyors of bunk.

Do you remember those fake science websites that people cited on FRDB?

A couple of the old members flipped out because I pointed out they were citing artificially generated pseudoscience to "prove" the BB was the absolute beginning of time.

Anyway, you could only find certain websites that supported the "research", and all of them linked to one another- but no outside reputable scientific research site linked to them.

 

[rjh01]

I have seen ads for "miracle weight loss drug" then done a search for information about the drug on the internet. Always easily found stuff that said it does not work. With medicines prescribed by my doctor easy to find a website that gives more information about the drug than what the doctor knows or is willing to tell me about. The information is out there, you just need to keep your eyes open to find out the information you need to know.

But the disinformation is also out there, so you also need some way to filter the bullshit out of the information stream.

The weight loss drug will have websites saying how wonderful it is, as well as the ones that say that it doesn't work. How do you pick which to trust?

I think Kharakov has one answer. Here is some more.
If there is some page that says a drug does not work, it probably does not work. Even better if they say that they have done research or are a university or government website. The sites that say it works only give unverifiable testimonials as evidence.