Open relationships - yay or nay?

[Bronzeage]

Not an apt simile. We are talking about a partner who wants other sexual partners and you did not answer the question.

I did, and it's not a simile. It's an instantiation of what you said you wouldn't put up with: A partner who is looking for other people to do some exciting activities with you can't offer them. And, hey, a climbing buddy is someone you're entrusting with your life. That's more than you can say about a lot of varieties of sex.

If you prefer a more direct answer: As long as I can be sure that there are things my partner only has in me to balance what is lacking in me.

If you think the emotional bond formed during rock climbing compares with that of sex, rock on.

I speak from hard earned experience and hard learned lessons. The view from the top of the rock face gives one a different perspective.

 

[Jokodo]

I did, and it's not a simile. It's an instantiation of what you said you wouldn't put up with: A partner who is looking for other people to do some exciting activities with you can't offer them. And, hey, a climbing buddy is someone you're entrusting with your life. That's more than you can say about a lot of varieties of sex.

If you prefer a more direct answer: As long as I can be sure that there are things my partner only has in me to balance what is lacking in me.

If you think the emotional bond formed during rock climbing compares with that of sex, rock on.

Not claiming it's the same. But different as they are, the same principles, adapted to the circumstances, should apply. I guess that's on some level even your own position, and that's probably why you, consciously or not, evaded explicit mention of the sexual in your question to me.

I speak from hard earned experience and hard learned lessons. The view from the top of the rock face gives one a different perspective.

I don't know which rock faces you've climbed, but I've climbed some of my own and, believe it or not, I'm speaking from experience too.

You're allowed to your own experiences and attitudes. Just don't proclaim them THE universal truth.

 

[Bronzeage]

If you think the emotional bond formed during rock climbing compares with that of sex, rock on.

Not claiming it's the same. But different as they are, the same principles, adapted to the circumstances, should apply. I guess that's on some level even your own position, and that's probably why you, consciously or not, evaded explicit mention of the sexual in your question to me.

I speak from hard earned experience and hard learned lessons. The view from the top of the rock face gives one a different perspective.

I don't know which rock faces you've climbed, but I've climbed some of my own and, believe it or not, I'm speaking from experience too.

You're allowed to your own experiences and attitudes. Just don't proclaim them THE universal truth.

Lets call them the predictions of Cassandra.

 

[gmbteach]

Okay, Thanks everyone.

I posed the questions, so here are my thoughts.

An open relationship may be okay for some, and while discussing the multiple partners aspect, I will say it is not for me. However, If you intend on being in an open relationship, then all parties need to be on the same page with regards to the rules.

Some here have alluded to the 'rules' or 'behaviours' that constitute an open relationship, and so they know what they can and cannot get away with. That to me is the most important. I also think that such rules need to be discussed UP FRONT. If both parties enter the relationship knowing that they may not be an exclusive partner, then all good and well.

I say 'may not be' because it is more than possible that despite being given permission to have an open relationship, the person may have suddenly found all that they want at home.



So, let's throw it open to a new thought......


What, in your opinions, constitute cheating?

 

[credoconsolans]

FIFY

This is why open relationships rarely last because you rarely get two people of the same mindset together.

Fixed it right back. Regular relationships rarely last, and since open relationships are a rare subset of those relationships, their staying power is even less.

2. What conditions are needed for an open relationship to occur?

For two people to not be that invested in the relationship. Obviously they can take the relationship or leave it since finding other partners and not be invested in just one is the whole idea.

How is this implied? You can want to stay with your partner for the rest of your days and consider your relationship the most important aspect of your life and yet admit that you haven't stopped finding others attractive and desirable. And if your partner knows the first part and accepts the second, and feels secure about it, and you know you can act out some of those desires without hurting them, why would that make you automatically less invested?

How is "staying with a partner for the rest of your days" even implied in an open relationship? It's an oxymoron. They don't plan on it. That's why the relationship is open, so they can keep shopping around. And if they find someone they like better, and they almost always do, it's easy to put the first relationship on the back burner and focus on the new relationship. Hardly something to make the other member of the relationship feel like they're in it for the long haul.

3. In your opinion, and I would like to stress that is only your opinion, is an open relationship right or wrong?

It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's more a matter of successful or not. And they rarely are due to #1 above.

Do you have any demographic data on this point, or is this just Common Knowledge(tm)?

Common knowledge. Note the lack of substantial numbers of such relationships.

 

[bilby]

This is why open relationships rarely last because you rarely get two people of the same mindset together.

Fixed it right back. Regular relationships rarely last, and since open relationships are a rare subset of those relationships, their staying power is even less.

Your logic is broken. Using the exact same reasoning we can conclude:

Regular relationships rarely last, and since marriages are a rare subset of those relationships, their staying power is even less.

Which is clearly wrong.

 

[Bronzeage]

Okay, Thanks everyone.

I posed the questions, so here are my thoughts.

An open relationship may be okay for some, and while discussing the multiple partners aspect, I will say it is not for me. However, If you intend on being in an open relationship, then all parties need to be on the same page with regards to the rules.

Some here have alluded to the 'rules' or 'behaviours' that constitute an open relationship, and so they know what they can and cannot get away with. That to me is the most important. I also think that such rules need to be discussed UP FRONT. If both parties enter the relationship knowing that they may not be an exclusive partner, then all good and well.

I say 'may not be' because it is more than possible that despite being given permission to have an open relationship, the person may have suddenly found all that they want at home.



So, let's throw it open to a new thought......


What, in your opinions, constitute cheating?

Cheating is anything you do which must be concealed from the partner, in order to do it, or keep doing it. This is a very elastic and subjective definition.

I know a woman who feels cheated because her husband masturbates to cheerleader porn. I told her to quit checking his browser history.

 

[Jokodo]

This is why open relationships rarely last because you rarely get two people of the same mindset together.

Fixed it right back. Regular relationships rarely last, and since open relationships are a rare subset of those relationships, their staying power is even less.

2. What conditions are needed for an open relationship to occur?

For two people to not be that invested in the relationship. Obviously they can take the relationship or leave it since finding other partners and not be invested in just one is the whole idea.

How is this implied? You can want to stay with your partner for the rest of your days and consider your relationship the most important aspect of your life and yet admit that you haven't stopped finding others attractive and desirable. And if your partner knows the first part and accepts the second, and feels secure about it, and you know you can act out some of those desires without hurting them, why would that make you automatically less invested?

How is "staying with a partner for the rest of your days" even implied in an open relationship? It's an oxymoron. They don't plan on it. That's why the relationship is open, so they can keep shopping around. And if they find someone they like better, and they almost always do, it's easy to put the first relationship on the back burner and focus on the new relationship. Hardly something to make the other member of the relationship feel like they're in it for the long haul.

Those are your prejudices. There's nothing oxymoronic here. If the only situation where you could imagine yourself entering an open relationship is when you want to keep shopping around for someone better, that's your thing. Other people know that they want to stay with the person they're with but acknowledge that they didn't go blind to others' charms and appreciate the possibility to act on those attractions to the extent that their partner is comfortable with it. This is not a hypothetical, this is happening in the real world. Those are some of the cutest couples I know.

3. In your opinion, and I would like to stress that is only your opinion, is an open relationship right or wrong?

It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's more a matter of successful or not. And they rarely are due to #1 above.

Do you have any demographic data on this point, or is this just Common Knowledge(tm)?

Common knowledge. Note the lack of substantial numbers of such relationships.

First, in order for the perceived "lack of substantial numbers of such relationships" to work as an argument about success rates, you'd also have to know how many tried and failed - otherwise you have no argument at all, and stating that there aren't many such couples doesn't tell us any more about the prospect of any such couple than the finding that there aren't many couples where both partners have green eyes. Second, a lot of people refrain from widely advertising the open status of their relationship (precisely to avoid the reactions of people thinking they can judge the quality of the relationship as a whole from this information), so chances are that some of the cutest couples you know are open, only they wouldn't tell you.

 

[Jokodo]

Okay, Thanks everyone.

I posed the questions, so here are my thoughts.

An open relationship may be okay for some, and while discussing the multiple partners aspect, I will say it is not for me. However, If you intend on being in an open relationship, then all parties need to be on the same page with regards to the rules.

Some here have alluded to the 'rules' or 'behaviours' that constitute an open relationship, and so they know what they can and cannot get away with. That to me is the most important. I also think that such rules need to be discussed UP FRONT. If both parties enter the relationship knowing that they may not be an exclusive partner, then all good and well.

I say 'may not be' because it is more than possible that despite being given permission to have an open relationship, the person may have suddenly found all that they want at home.



So, let's throw it open to a new thought......


What, in your opinions, constitute cheating?

Cheating is anything you do which must be concealed from the partner, in order to do it, or keep doing it. This is a very elastic and subjective definition..

So when you've promised to stop drinking, a beer becomes cheating?

 

[Bronzeage]

Cheating is anything you do which must be concealed from the partner, in order to do it, or keep doing it. This is a very elastic and subjective definition..

So when you've promised to stop drinking, a beer becomes cheating?

Maybe. Would continuing an activity one promised to give up be considered an act of fidelity?

My second wife* once found a box of letters exchanged between me and my first wife. Most were from before we were married, going back into highschool. She insisted I throw them out. There was absolutely no chance of that relationship being revived, but wife#2 did not want the presence of an old love in the house.

I hadn't thought of the letters since we moved into the house and I put the box on the shelf. I did not consider it a form of cheating, but she did.

Who gets to define cheating in a relationship?

*A wife is not assigned a number until she has been replaced.

 

[Togo]

I know several people who have maintained open relationships for more than a decade.

One where a bit of cheating is expected and accepted, provided it isn't too serious.
One where sleeping with others is actively and publically supported by each of them.
One where sleeping with others is tolerated, but is 'paid for' by forfeits to the partner, typically housework.
One where both of them have multiple long-term partners on the side. They're not allowed to bring them home, but that's about it.

There are a lot of pros and cons to these relationships, but they seem pretty stable to me.

 

[Bronzeage]

I know several people who have maintained open relationships for more than a decade.

One where a bit of cheating is expected and accepted, provided it isn't too serious.
One where sleeping with others is actively and publically supported by each of them.
One where sleeping with others is tolerated, but is 'paid for' by forfeits to the partner, typically housework.
One where both of them have multiple long-term partners on the side. They're not allowed to bring them home, but that's about it.

There are a lot of pros and cons to these relationships, but they seem pretty stable to me.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating. A relationship is a set of mutual demands. If both feel their demands are met, all is well. There is no set of rules which declares something can or can't be done.

At last count, something in the range of 50% of non-open relationships fail in the first five years. The reasons vary, but disagreements about how "closed" the relationship should be, is probably a major issue. There is no such thing as a "normal" relationship. It is the chemistry between two people, which contains so many random factors, each is unique and just to make it harder to understand, changes with time.

 

[gmbteach]

Who gets to define cheating in a relationship?

I think that cheating should be discussed as a pair. What would each person tolerate the other doing, and go from there. Some compromises may need to be made though, if the ideas are completely off base from each other.

 

[credoconsolans]

This is why open relationships rarely last because you rarely get two people of the same mindset together.

Fixed it right back. Regular relationships rarely last, and since open relationships are a rare subset of those relationships, their staying power is even less.

Your logic is broken. Using the exact same reasoning we can conclude:

Regular relationships rarely last, and since marriages are a rare subset of those relationships, their staying power is even less.

Which is clearly wrong.

Except marriages are not a rare subset, they're the most common subset. The majority of people get married. So your logic is wrong.

 

[bilby]

Your logic is broken. Using the exact same reasoning we can conclude:

Regular relationships rarely last, and since marriages are a rare subset of those relationships, their staying power is even less.

Which is clearly wrong.

Except marriages are not a rare subset, they're the most common subset. The majority of people get married. So your logic is wrong.

Not so. Even those people who spend some of their life married, spend a good chunk of their life in relationships other than marriage. In the OECD, marriage rates are plummeting; Even in the hyper-religious USA, less than half of adults are now married.

Regardless, your original logic is still broken. Open relationships may or may not last, but their rarity as a proportion of all relationships has no bearing on this. Relationships fail for a lot of reasons, but 'being a rare relationship type' isn't one of them.