Pelosi: Impeachment Is Moving Forward

[ZiprHead]

I've had the football pulled away at the last minute for too long to entertain the idea of Nancy as some shrewd tactician. I really don't understand why everybody gives her that kind of credit.

It's wishful thinking.. what sophmoronic Democratic ideologs do best. I wouldn't be surprised if this was all a fake catastrophe invented by Trump to bait the Democrats into jumping up and down and furthering his narrative on how unfairly he is being treated and unreasonable and untrustworthy the Dems are.

That wouldn't surprise me either. That's why the reasons to impeach him should be the reasons that have already existed (including this inquiry) and should be diversified, multi-faceted.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

He will be impeached but not removed. The Senate isn't going to risk it's skin.

If a sitting president can ask a foreign government to investigate and find dirt on his political opponent for an upcoming election, and near every GOP senator says it's perfectly okay, there won't ever be a conviction.

If you're waiting for joe and jane sixpack to suddenly discover non-partisan ethics there are lots of bridges needing buyers out there.

 

[blastula]

I've had the football pulled away at the last minute for too long to entertain the idea of Nancy as some shrewd tactician. I really don't understand why everybody gives her that kind of credit.

It's wishful thinking.. what sophmoronic Democratic ideologs do best. I wouldn't be surprised if this was all a fake catastrophe invented by Trump to bait the Democrats into jumping up and down and furthering his narrative on how unfairly he is being treated and unreasonable and untrustworthy the Dems are.

Aren't you doing the same thing?

 

[Horatio Parker]

He will be impeached but not removed. The Senate isn't going to risk it's skin.

If a sitting president can ask a foreign government to investigate and find dirt on his political opponent for an upcoming election, and near every GOP senator says it's perfectly okay, there won't ever be a conviction.

If you're waiting for joe and jane sixpack to suddenly discover non-partisan ethics there are lots of bridges needing buyers out there.

Neither will the Senate exonerate Trump if they think that that vote will cost them their jobs.

The public is the key. And if they have no non-partisanship ethics, it's probably out of ignorance. Eg do they know that if Hunter Biden's supposed crime is really an important corruption issue, the US govt can make a formal request through channels. The Republicans are much better at this, they are consistently, relentlessly on message.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

But in terms of public perception, I feel like this issue specifically was an odd one to place as the most egregious and blatant overreach, given the obvious counter-narrative that can be employed,

Which makes me wonder if Nancy has a copy of the actual transcript already.
Which would mean that by asking for the WH to give up a copy, they're giving Trump enough rope to hang himself.

Or maybe she's trying to use this to undermine the radicals who are making her life difficult. Say "go ahead, but don't blame me when you get hurt." It will cause the Democratic Party some short-term losses in exchange for long-term benefits.

 

[Harry Bosch]

But in terms of public perception, I feel like this issue specifically was an odd one to place as the most egregious and blatant overreach, given the obvious counter-narrative that can be employed,

Which makes me wonder if Nancy has a copy of the actual transcript already.
Which would mean that by asking for the WH to give up a copy, they're giving Trump enough rope to hang himself.

I've had the football pulled away at the last minute for too long to entertain the idea of Nancy as some shrewd tactician. I really don't understand why everybody gives her that kind of credit.

I think that you are probably being ironic here. But yes, to add to your post, Nancy has been masterful at waiting until the right time. If she had started impeachment early, it would have failed for sure and helped Trump and the republicans. Brilliant.

 

[ZiprHead]

They've reached 218.

 

[blastula]

Trump offered Ukrainian president Justice Dept. help in an investigation of Biden, memo shows - The Washington Post

Has some info on the whistleblower complaint.

The complaint also alleges a pattern of obfuscation at the White House, in which officials moved the records of some of Trump’s communications with foreign officials onto a separate computer network from where they are normally stored, this person said. The whistleblower alleges that is what officials did with Trump’s July 25 call with Zelensky, an action that alarmed the intelligence community inspector general and prompted him to request that the White House retain records of the Zelensky call, the person who read the complaint said.

So, they tried to hide the call.

Trump has been pointing out Pence talked to Ukraine too. If Pence gets wrapped up in this, I wonder if that would hurt impeachment prospects with Republicans, because then it'd be President Pelosi.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Apparently before all of this Rudy Guliani openly stated he was going to Ukraine to get the Biden's investigated. And Roger Stone is actually arguing in court that the charges of Putin's interference with the 2016 elections was a Ukrainian false flag operation which has falsely implicated him in illegal dealings. Apparently Trump has accepted Stone's fantasies as fact. This is just getting weirder and weirder. It is possible Guliani's weird antics caused people in the US government to pay attention to what was occurring with the Trump administration and Ukraine.

 

[TV and credit cards]

The public is the key. And if they have no non-partisanship ethics, it's probably out of ignorance.

This is what I am hearing locally. This is just an extension of the typical left/right tit-for-tat. “High crimes and misdemeanors” seems to be understood as big important crimes and a cluelessness as to the meaning of “misdemeanors”.
This is where our political leadership should lead. Not everything should be driven by polling. Opinions aren’t worth a damn when they are rooted in ignorance.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I heard on conservative radio news report that the remaining conversations with the Ukrainian leader were put on a different computer. Trump's explanation on delaying payment because of corruption concerns was also quashed as an certification regarding that was done in May, as required by the law. And now we wait and see if our brave Patriots in the Trump Admin start acting like them and saying what happened. It takes pretty much just one, and it all collapses and Trump can be ground into sausage by Xmas.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Whistleblower Complaint has been released.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The Whistleblower complaint is interesting as it is more a review, that a single data point. The only problem is that the complaint lacks much first-person info. It makes up for this by painting a rather large and detailed tapestry, piecing together a lot of stuff that the people inside Dumb Watergate blurted into the public. But look for the lack of first person observation to be the GOP defense as I think it is their only defense.

It implicates Giuliani and Barr. I'm guessing it'll be known quickly who wrote this, they seem very familiar with intel from media and Ukraine. The telling thing is that whomever this is, a lot of people talk to him. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the NY Times Editorial guy.

“White House officials told me that they were “directed” by White House lawyers to remove the electronic transcript from the computer system in which such transcripts are typically stored for coordination, finalization, and distribution to Cabinet-level officials.

Instead the transcript was loaded into a separate electronic system that is otherwise used to store and handle classified information of any especially sensitive nature.


One White House official described this act as an abuse of this electronic system because the call did not contain anything remotely sensitive from a national security perspective.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I don't think so. I think he's just in it for his own ego and profit. I doubt he cares about future presidents or the environment one way or the other. I think your worst case scenario that we're not already aware of is that he's embezling a lot of money away from your taxpayers. He also stacked your supreme court against you. I would put Bush with his throwing away of numerous lives (both your own soldiers and civilians in the countries you invaded) in a "war" he lied you into as considerably worse.

I don't think Trump has much of an ideology. I think he's less like Voldemort and more like a Tornado, with a sharpie of course.

"tornado with a sharpie".. that's just pure gold.

Trump's primary goal may not specifically be "to destroy Democracy". But if that is an effect of his goal of enriching himself, then here in America we just say, "He's trying to destroy Democracy". It's just how we speak here.

I don't see it quite like that, though this is semantics and not worth an in-depth back and forth discussion...I see it more as a deliberate thing, ... a means to an end. It's semantically valid to say "He is trying to {execute the means}" and it is also semantically valid to say "He is trying to {reach the ends}." One does not need to necessarily in every sentence qualify the purpose of the means by saying "He is trying to {execute the means in order to reach the ends}." So, to me anyway, JP's response includes a fallacious false dichotomy since Trump can "try to destroy democracy" [my phrase] because "he's just in it for his own ego and profit" [JP's phrase]. It's because of his ego and profit that he will destroy institutions and wants a future Trump President.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I was not the only non-White House official to receive a readout of the call.

Oh yeah... the Trump Admin has to know who this is.

 

[ZiprHead]

What Schiff just read. WOW!!!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I want to congratulate the Democrats on the rollout of their latest information warfare operation against the President and their extraordinary ability to once again enlist the mainstream media in their campaign," he said in his opening statements at today's hearing.

Clearly someone is looking to be named Dictator Trump's Overseer of California. What an asshole. He has been Asshole #3 since Trump's election.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The complaint relied on hearsay evidence provided by the whistleblower. The inspector general did not know the contents of the phone call at issue. The inspector general found the whistleblower displayed arguable political bias against trump. The Department of Justice investigated the complaint and determined no action was warranted.

Told ya.

Meanwhile, the ICIG disagrees.

In a cover letter accompanying the whistleblower's complaint that ICIG Michael Atkinson wrote that the alleged conduct "would also potentially expose" Trump "to serious national security and counterintelligence risks with respect to foreign intelligence services aware of such alleged conduct.

Atkinson also writes that the whistleblower's complaint amounts to a "serious or flagrant problem [or] abuse" under US statutes regarding the inspector general's office.

 

[Horatio Parker]

The public is the key. And if they have no non-partisanship ethics, it's probably out of ignorance.

This is what I am hearing locally. This is just an extension of the typical left/right tit-for-tat. “High crimes and misdemeanors” seems to be understood as big important crimes and a cluelessness as to the meaning of “misdemeanors”.
This is where our political leadership should lead. Not everything should be driven by polling. Opinions aren’t worth a damn when they are rooted in ignorance.

Let's start with these:

And keep in mind that Trump has more to lose than to gain when it comes to public opinion on impeachment. Until now, a fairly sizable number of voters — somewhere around 15 percent of the electorate — has both disapproved of Trump and disapproved of efforts to impeach him. If the hardcore Trump partisans are the only ones who believe the White House’s spin, his impeachment numbers would get worse, although his approval ratings might not.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...kraine-scandal-is-looking-really-bad-for-him/

 

[Horatio Parker]

Whistleblower Complaint has been released.

Plenty of meat in there.