Police Misconduct Catch All Thread

[Derec]

How do you know the coroner ruled the first way to protect the officers and political pressure made him change to the truth?

Even Grauniad says that the change was made after "significant backlash".
And why would a coroner lie to protect some random cops?

 

[ZiprHead]

How do you know the coroner ruled the first way to protect the officers and political pressure made him change to the truth?

Even Grauniad says that the change was made after "significant backlash".

Doesn't answer the question.

And why would a coroner lie to protect some random cops?

Really???

 

[Derec]

Doesn't answer the question.

It's in the article. "Significant backlash" caused the change in the cause of death.
If you have a problem, take it with the person who posted that Grauniad article to begin with. I was just replying to it.

Really???

Yes, really. Coroners are medical professionals. Why should they lie (and risk their reputation and possibly their license) to protect some random cops?

 

[ZiprHead]

Doesn't answer the question.

It's in the article. "Significant backlash" caused the change in the cause of death.
If you have a problem, take it with the person who posted that Grauniad article to begin with. I was just replying to it.

Still doesn't answer the question. How do you know the backlash didn't cause the coroner to change the COD to the truth?

Coroners work closely with cops. Just like cops protect other cops, coroners can do it too.

 

[Derec]

Still doesn't answer the question. How do you know the backlash didn't cause the coroner to change the COD to the truth?

There is zero reason to suspect that. On the other hand, when pressure from outside leads to a change, that is inherently susepct.

Coroners work closely with cops. Just like cops protect other cops, coroners can do it too.

You have no evidence that the coroner lied in the first case. I do not see how pressure by activists or politicians etc. is more likely to lead to the truth than allowing professionals to make determinations autonomously.
Causes of death should be based on the facts, not pressure from outside. Same goes for charging decisions. They should be based on facts and the law, not pressure by activists, politicians or an angry (and possibly violent) mob.

As I said before, this should not have happened to McClain. From all evidence, police did wrong. That does not mean coroners should be pressured to change the cause of death just to make it easier to prosecute.

 

[ZiprHead]

You have no evidence that the coroner lied in the first case.

And you have no evidence the coroner lied in the second case.

How Medical Examiners Shield Violent Cops From Scrutiny

They wield the important power of determining a victim’s manner of death—but they’re susceptible to both political pressure and racial bias.

newrepublic.com

It's not like coroners lying for cops never happens.

 

[laughing dog]

Still doesn't answer the question. How do you know the backlash didn't cause the coroner to change the COD to the truth?

There is zero reason to suspect that. On the other hand, when pressure from outside leads to a change, that is inherently susepct.

Certainly not in this case, since coroners would not risk their license and career just to get some randocop in trouble.

 

[Derec]

And you have no evidence the coroner lied in the second case.

He changed his ruling due to political pressure, as even leftist Grauniad admits. That makes it far more likely that the 2nd ruling is the tainted one, not the first.

It's not like coroners lying for cops never happens.

Well, in the opinion of this writer it does. However, Radley Balko is a leftist who has written many anti-police screeds. New Republic is a leftist rag as well.

 

[blastula]

And you have no evidence the coroner lied in the second case.

He changed his ruling due to political pressure, as even leftist Grauniad admits. That makes it far more likely that the 2nd ruling is the tainted one, not the first.

It's not like coroners lying for cops never happens.

Well, in the opinion of this writer it does. However, Radley Balko is a leftist who has written many anti-police screeds. New Republic is a leftist rag as well.

Empty handwave.

Balko is a libertarian. And to call the New Republic a leftist rag is just dumb. But so what if they were? Doesn't make him wrong. Try to point out anything wrong in the article.

 

[Patooka]

Yes, really. Coroners are medical professionals. Why should they lie (and risk their reputation and possibly their license) to protect some random cops?

Not in America they are not. The expertise required is frighteningly low. A hairdresser can be a coroner.

 

[Gospel]

It was not just officer's word alone.

The officer stated that he feared for his life, citing another officer's account that the suspect had attempted to reach for his gun. This statement was deemed sufficient for acquittal (which is what this particular article is about). This raises concerns about the reliance solely on an officer's testimony without corroborative evidence to support the claim of the suspect's actions.

Edit: Police officers' holsters are usually designed with several safety features to prevent unauthorized or accidental discharge. So it's much harder to get their gun than some officers would like us to believe.

 

[southernhybrid]

I read and will share the most disturbing article I've ever read about police brutality in modern times. It's about a narcotics division in a small town in Mississippi, where the police brutally abused many people, both Black and White for possible drug usage or drug sales. In most cases, the amount of drugs found was small or nonexistent, and most of the victims of this severe brutality had a history of drug addiction, which is a medical problem, which should never be a crime, imo.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/...e_code=1.CU0.6oBA.0PDwsYSVd2YT&smid=url-share

For nearly two decades, a loose band of sheriff’s deputies roamed impoverished neighborhoods across a central Mississippi county, meting out their own version of justice.

Narcotics detectives and patrol officers, some who called themselves the Goon Squad, barged into homes in the middle of the night, accusing people inside of dealing drugs. Then they handcuffed or held them at gunpoint and tortured them into confessing or providing information, according to dozens of people who say they endured or witnessed the assaults.

They described violence that sometimes went on for hours and seemed intended to strike terror into the deputies’ targets.

In the pursuit of drug arrests, deputies of the Rankin County Sheriff’s Department shocked Robert Jones with a Taser in 2018 while he lay submerged in a flooded ditch, then rammed a stick down his throat until he vomited blood, he said.

It's a long article with a lot more details and finally some of these goons will be receiving prison terms for their crimes.

One more reason, why we need to improve the qualifications of police and imo, drug usage shouldn't be a crime, but that's a topic for another time.

 

[EricH]

Ohio apparently had a police shooting recently, 21 year old pregnant woman who was accused by the grocery store of shoplifting alcohol.

“Get out of the f**king car,” the officer standing in front of the car says, with his gun drawn and his left hand braced on the hood of the car, the video shows.

Young can then be seen turning the wheel of the car as the officer next to her window continues to urge her to exit the vehicle.

“Get out of the f**king car,” the officer in front of the car repeats as the vehicle begins to move slowly forward, the video shows.

A few seconds elapse and then the officer standing in front of the hood fires into the vehicle.

Like no one in that situation made a proper decision. Rolling the car into a officer, probably a bad idea. Drawing your gun at a person who hasn't presented any semblance of a threat, probably a bad idea. In fact a very awful one. How long did it take an officer to lose control of that situation, swearing at the suspect?

An officer pulls a gun over a person who appears to be evading a petty theft. They have her license, this can be managed otherwise. But no, pulls a fucking gun because of Cartman-ism.

By standing in front of the car, the officer almost certainly precipitated the need for the shooting. All over an alleged shoplifting charge. What a waste.

 

[ZiprHead]

Yes, really. Coroners are medical professionals.

And police are justice professionals. How's that working out?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I guess what also bothers me, are people who call the police because they think someone looks suspicious, simply based on appearance. The caller said that Elijah didn't have a gun etc. What made him think the young man was scary? I think most of us know the answer to that. It's called prejudice.

A ski mask is suspicious given the weather. It's not proof, though--some people chill easily, especially when they aren't in the best of health. The range of attire I have seen on group hikes (a situation where everyone is exerting themselves to a similar degree other than due to body weight) is considerable. I never saw Jack in pants, no matter what the weather (he didn't do winter mountain stuff so probably nothing below 40F) he wore shorts. On the other hand I've seen women with nothing but their face exposed even in the summer (admittedly, mountains.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think it is highly improper and dangerous for a coroner to change the cause of death due to political pressure. It's similar to the George Floyd farce where the coroner completely ignored the role acute fentanyl and methamphetamine intoxication as well as chronic health problems like cardiomegaly played in the sainted robber's death and put it all on Chauvin in order to appease the violent rioters who were tearing down the city.

The coroner ignored it because it clearly had no bearing on his death.

He was walking around--people who die of opioid overdose are not walking around and acting reasonably coherent as opioid overdose death is by sedation. The only way he could have died of an opioid overdose is if he had just taken it in pill form and it was dissolving in his stomach at the time.

His health might very well have contributed to his death but that's irrelevant from a legal standpoint--you take your victims as you find them. It's not a defense to a manslaughter charge that your victim was more vulnerable than most.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You have no evidence that the coroner lied in the first case. I do not see how pressure by activists or politicians etc. is more likely to lead to the truth than allowing professionals to make determinations autonomously.
Causes of death should be based on the facts, not pressure from outside. Same goes for charging decisions. They should be based on facts and the law, not pressure by activists, politicians or an angry (and possibly violent) mob.

Note that coroners are not required to be medical professionals at all. The position should be abolished, replaced with medical examiners (who are professionals.)

 

[southernhybrid]

You have no evidence that the coroner lied in the first case. I do not see how pressure by activists or politicians etc. is more likely to lead to the truth than allowing professionals to make determinations autonomously.
Causes of death should be based on the facts, not pressure from outside. Same goes for charging decisions. They should be based on facts and the law, not pressure by activists, politicians or an angry (and possibly violent) mob.

Note that coroners are not required to be medical professionals at all. The position should be abolished, replaced with medical examiners (who are professionals.)

I think the qualifications of coroners varies by state, but, I can give you an example of a bad coroner. A young woman died of a sudden heart problem where I worked for many years. She was found in the morning, slumped over on a chair in a resident's room. The coroner came out and told everyone that she had overdosed on drugs. But, when an autopsy was done, the actual medical examiner discovered it was a heart condition that killed her.

He never should have said a word about what he thought was the cause of death. I was shocked when I heard he said she died of a drug overdose, mostly because she was so straight, married with kids never acted like she was drugs etc. So, yeah. Coroners are a waste, regardless if they have a medical degree or not. You can't know for sure what caused a death of an otherwise healthy person, without a lot of tests or an autopsy. Autopsies are usually done when a young, otherwise healthy person dies suddenly.

 

[Derec]

Balko is a libertarian.

Is he? I know he has written a lot against police and has been published in left-wing outlets like The Intercept. I guess some libertarians are anti-police just like hardcore leftists are. Do you have an example of something he is written that is libertarian that a leftist would disagree with?

And to call the New Republic a leftist rag is just dumb.

It's not dumb, as it is one.

But so what if they were? Doesn't make him wrong. Try to point out anything wrong in the article.

Given the size of the US and the sheer number of cases where deaths in custody are investigated, some cases of misconduct are bound to happen, even if what he wrote about the Damien Cameron case is correct. That does not mean that generally determinations of causes of death should be changed due to political pressure or just to make it easier to prosecute police officers.

 

[Derec]

Not in America they are not. The expertise required is frighteningly low. A hairdresser can be a coroner.

I wish you did not use a source as annoying as John Oliver.
But your (and Oliver's? I did not watch the video) claim is only partially correct. I conflated coroners and medical examiners, and that's on me. But to say "In America" is not accurate either. Where I live we have professional medical examiners - six of them, all medical doctors. Colorado has elected coroners, which I think is bonkers.
Nevertheless, this makes my point stronger actually. An elected official would have more reason to bow down to political pressure and change findings based on how popular that will make her come next election.