Police response to N.J. mall fight sparks outrage after Black teen cuffed as white teen watches

[Jimmy Higgins]

... did I step into the wrong thread?

OMFG!
A derail on an IIDB thread?
Tom

USWNT v Teen fight in mall, that isn't reasonably Kevin Bacon-able.

 

[Jarhyn]

It comes down to "the woman cop was more competent at the start of the encounter," or "racism in spades," or potentially both.

She was so much more competent that discussion of her capabilities is a bit ludicrous. It's quite possible that had she gotten there 10 seconds before the male cop, it would all have ended right then. Because she could have handled both boys better than her partner handled one.

But that also brings up a different possibility, the proximity of the cops when they arrived at a dead run. Had she been closer to the black boy and grabbed him, and the male cop grabbed the white boy, it might have been the white boy manhandled.
I dunno.
Tom

I accept that this is entirely possible as an outcome. It points to my expectation that the cops who first interact with people be the most friendly, least likely to cause harm, and least armed.

I think this would go such a long way to solving problems like this!

I think this is indeed also related, in any respect, to the issue at hand: messages have been written in our history, longstanding ugly curses which could not be more powerful had they been carved indelibly into the sky itself. They say "cops are on the side of the whites".

It was said with every public lynching well into the 2019's where cops would see no consequences, and publicly so, for vicious and egregious oversteps against black people.

The only way to erase this is to acknowledge EVERY such instance and come down hard over it so as to actually show that the words of that generational curse have lost their power.

It is not forgotten that white people razed a whole town of black prosperity and that the people who were buried were not the ones who committed the attack.

The only way to reverse such as this that it should be that people restore the prosperity they stole and burned and never allowed to catch flame in the first place; and send message that lynchings are dead, and that no thing shall set one person apart from another in the service and protection of the law.

That either means fascism by AI, which , or making the police nonviolent in first response, and strong oversight on such interactions as might be seen this way

 

[Gospel]

But that also brings up a different possibility, the proximity of the cops when they arrived at a dead run. Had she been closer to the black boy and grabbed him, and the male cop grabbed the white boy, it might have been the white boy manhandled.
I dunno.
Tom

That's a fair question. Now did you make that statement to just throw one in the air or do you intend to use the available data to determine its probability? Cause I can throw ideas around in the air without purpose too. Hows about this, watch the video again and look at who the first officer to engage touched first, and why did he choose to not contain that suspect and allow his partner to engage the smaller and already downed suspect? with that data we have the male cop would have tossed the female officer aside to get to the black suspect so it wouldn't have mattered if she got to him first.

 

[Metaphor]

He's there next to her with his wrists out to be cuffed. No one in their right mind would think she is considering risk of injury to herself or the teen at that point.

Ah, yeah. I kind of hinted at that with my repeated references to Franco's co-operation.

Likewise, even after the Black teen is cuffed and the male officer is free to assist or detain the other, neither she implicitly accepts such assistance to cuff the teen nor the male officer initiates cuffing the other teen.

I don't know what you think you are arguing about? Franco very clearly co-operated with the officers, as is evident from the video and his comments afterward.

 

[Metaphor]

I didn't say you did. This thread is about a black kid being treated differently from an (apparently) white kid so you should expect posts on this thread to be perceived as related to that topic. You said the female cop interacted the way she did with the (apparently) white kid because he was cooperative.

Partly it was to do with Franco's co-operation. The female cop pulled Franco by the back of the jumper onto the couch. Franco made no signs of resistance after being pulled on to the couch.

At that point, I believe that the female cop could have cuffed Franco, given his obvious co-operation. I speculated that if Franco had not been co-operative, the female cop would have had a very difficult time subduing him.

Maybe it's the way I started my post with a question where you believe I was saying you said the black kid was uncooperative. That was not my intention. I was taking what you described and then applying it to her interaction with the black kid. this is to measure your theory against other available data to gauge its consistency. It's inconsistent with how she treated the black kid. So it's a no, she did not treat the (apparently) white kid in that fashion because he was cooperative.

I do not understand what you are saying. The female cop's interaction with Husain was to assist her partner.

 

[Gospel]

Partly it was to do with Franco's co-operation. The female cop pulled Franco by the back of the jumper onto the couch. Franco made no signs of resistance after being pulled on to the couch.

The Female officer had Franko essentially thrown at her by the other officer who was eager to get to the black suspect.

I do not understand what you are saying. The female cop's interaction with Husain was to assist her partner.

And that is why she is just as wrong as her partner is in how Husain was treated. What do you think we are talking about?

 

[Metaphor]

The Female officer had Franko essentially thrown at her by the other officer who was eager to get to the black suspect.

So....?

And that is why she is just as wrong as her partner is in how Husain was treated. What do you think we are talking about?

Why was she wrong to assist her partner?

 

[Gospel]

Why was she wrong to assist her partner?

Because her partner was violating someone's civil rights by not treating them equally.

 

[Metaphor]

Why was she wrong to assist her partner?

Because her partner was violating someone's civil rights by not treating them equally.

What? Each cop attended to one of the two boys. The male cop could not treat each boy equally after the fight was broken up and neither could the female cop.

I don't know what, if anything, the male cop said to the female cop before she went over to assist him. It seems to me if he asked for her assistance it would be expected that she would assist him.

 

[laughing dog]

Why was she wrong to assist her partner?

Because her partner was violating someone's civil rights by not treating them equally.

What? Each cop attended to one of the two boys. The male cop could not treat each boy equally after the fight was broken up and neither could the female cop.

Utter nonsense. Of course if one child was cuffed, the other one could have cuffed as well. In fact, if that had happened, I suspect there would have been no OP about this.

 

[Metaphor]

Utter nonsense. Of course if one child was cuffed, the other one could have cuffed as well. In fact, if that had happened, I suspect there would have been no OP about this.

The male cop did not control the female cop with telepathy or vice versa. Cops don't have a hive mind. And how the suspects were treated was at least partly influenced by which cop was dealing with them and how co-operative they were.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I didn't say you did. This thread is about a black kid being treated differently from an (apparently) white kid so you should expect posts on this thread to be perceived as related to that topic. You said the female cop interacted the way she did with the (apparently) white kid because he was cooperative.

Partly it was to do with Franco's co-operation. The female cop pulled Franco by the back of the jumper onto the couch. Franco made no signs of resistance after being pulled on to the couch.

You mean other than getting back up about 10 seconds later?

At that point, I believe that the female cop could have cuffed Franco, given his obvious co-operation. I speculated that if Franco had not been co-operative, the female cop would have had a very difficult time subduing him.

Last time I checked, the other party in the fight hadn't had time to "not cooperate".

Maybe it's the way I started my post with a question where you believe I was saying you said the black kid was uncooperative. That was not my intention. I was taking what you described and then applying it to her interaction with the black kid. this is to measure your theory against other available data to gauge its consistency. It's inconsistent with how she treated the black kid. So it's a no, she did not treat the (apparently) white kid in that fashion because he was cooperative.

I do not understand what you are saying. The female cop's interaction with Husain was to assist her partner.

By not attending to the other teen?

 

[Metaphor]

You mean other than getting back up about 10 seconds later?

Yes, the one who got up and stood there. The one who was being comically co-operative. The one who did not try to run away or resist. The very same.

Last time I checked, the other party in the fight hadn't had time to "not cooperate".

I was talking about Franco, not Husain. Franco was being comically co-operative. I didn't realise he had held his hands out to assist cuffing until somebody pointed it out.

By not attending to the other teen?

Franco was obviously no longer any kind of threat to the situation nor a flight risk, as was demonstrated by his being no kind of threat to the situation and not fleeing, even though he could have done so. As has been pointed out repeatedly, he wasn't cuffed.

Are you suggesting that the female cop ought have stayed next to Franco and not left him unattended, even if the other cop asked for her assistance?

 

[Toni]

US Women’s soccer generates more revenue than dues US men’s soccer. On the international stage, US wimen’s soccer teams vastly outperform US mens soccer teams.

As a sport, soccer is growing in the US. Women’s professional teams represent an extremely good opportunity to build enthusiasm for the sport, especially among girls and women.

Whatever this is, it does not belong in this thread.

It's a bit of derail. It grew out of discussing female firefighters in Australia.
Tom

Yeah, I wrote my soccer response in response to that part of the female firefighters in Australia derail and apparently didn't hit send until after there were a bunch of other posts? I'm guessing that's what happened. I was busy yesterday and not spending uninterrupted time in front of a screen watching this thread....

 

[Toni]

Poor poor misunderstood Metaphor!

I said I had been misrepresented and false claims made. Being misrepresented can arise from misunderstandings but it can also arise from other, more deliberate, acts.

Indeed. We've all read your posts.

 

[Metaphor]

Poor poor misunderstood Metaphor!

I said I had been misrepresented and false claims made. Being misrepresented can arise from misunderstandings but it can also arise from other, more deliberate, acts.

Indeed. We've all read your posts.

Yes, and still you manage to misrepresent me!

 

[Toni]

You mean other than getting back up about 10 seconds later?

Yes, the one who got up and stood there. The one who was being comically co-operative. The one who did not try to run away or resist. The very same.

Last time I checked, the other party in the fight hadn't had time to "not cooperate".

I was talking about Franco, not Husain. Franco was being comically co-operative. I didn't realise he had held his hands out to assist cuffing until somebody pointed it out.

By not attending to the other teen?

Franco was obviously no longer any kind of threat to the situation nor a flight risk, as was demonstrated by his being no kind of threat to the situation and not fleeing, even though he could have done so. As has been pointed out repeatedly, he wasn't cuffed.

Are you suggesting that the female cop ought have stayed next to Franco and not left him unattended, even if the other cop asked for her assistance?

Can you point out the point---any point--at which Husain was any kind of threat? I mean, he was a better fighter than Franco, despite being younger and smaller but I don't recall him offering even a fraction of a second's worth of resistance any more than did Franco.

 

[Toni]

Poor poor misunderstood Metaphor!

I said I had been misrepresented and false claims made. Being misrepresented can arise from misunderstandings but it can also arise from other, more deliberate, acts.

Indeed. We've all read your posts.

Yes, and still you manage to misrepresent me!

You know, I don't deliberately misrepresent you or anyone else. If I have misunderstood your posts, you could clarify what you meant instead of writing endless that's not what I said posts and posts about people misrepresenting you.

 

[Gospel]

What? Each cop attended to one of the two boys. The male cop could not treat each boy equally after the fight was broken up and neither could the female cop.

I don't know what, if anything, the male cop said to the female cop before she went over to assist him. It seems to me if he asked for her assistance it would be expected that she would assist him.

Metaphor, this is not only about how the police engaged the teens it's also about them letting one teen go and detaining the other.

 

[Gospel]

how the suspects were treated was at least partly influenced by which cop was dealing with them and how co-operative they were.

There goes that word "co-operative" again. Well, I guess the police were both cooperative about sending the (apparently) white kid on his way while detaining the black one. I wonder how that conversation went.

Becky: Great job Skippy!
Skippy: Where is your suspect?
Becky: I let him go.
Skippy: Well that's not fair, let's detain my suspect.