Police response to N.J. mall fight sparks outrage after Black teen cuffed as white teen watches

[Metaphor]

You seem to forget that police officers are trained in hand to hand combat and the white kid was obviously an inexperienced fighter.

I haven't forgotten either, and in fact I have already remarked twice about how Franco does not seem to be any kind of fighter and was using his greater size and strength against Husain, rather than throwing punches as Husain was doing.

Also your statement is complete conjecture.

Well, I have said 'I believe' etc.

You have no real knowledge of what the female cop was thinking

I never claimed anything about what the female cop was thinking. In fact,. 'm getting a wee bit sick and fucking tired of people claiming I made statements about the female cop's internal state. I did not. You can tell I didn't because of the complete absence of my having made such a statement.

or why she did what she did, unless you're a mind-reader.

I made no claims to knowing the female cop's mind either at the time of the event or any other time.

You've lashed yourself to a point you think is valid but to make it work you have to misrepresent the parameters of the situation.

I made a claim - that had Franco decided to not be co-operative and physically resist the female officer, she either would have failed to restrain him or would have to have taken more risk of injury to herself or Franco in subduing him than an average male officer would have.

I made no claims about the internal states of that female cop.

Now, my claims about the strength of women versus men appear to have caused some controversy, though as usual I am again discombobulated by the pearl-clutching response to uttering anodyne and obvious claims that everybody up until five minutes ago believed true,

 

[Metaphor]

US Women’s soccer generates more revenue than dues US men’s soccer. On the international stage, US wimen’s soccer teams vastly outperform US mens soccer teams.

As a sport, soccer is growing in the US. Women’s professional teams represent an extremely good opportunity to build enthusiasm for the sport, especially among girls and women.

Whatever this is, it does not belong in this thread.

 

[Toni]

US Women’s soccer generates more revenue than dues US men’s soccer. On the international stage, US wimen’s soccer teams vastly outperform US mens soccer teams.

As a sport, soccer is growing in the US. Women’s professional teams represent an extremely good opportunity to build enthusiasm for the sport, especially among girls and women.

Whatever this is, it does not belong in this thread.

Maybe tell LoAmmo and TomC. My post was in response to their posts 249 & 250 respectively.

 

[Toni]

You seem to forget that police officers are trained in hand to hand combat and the white kid was obviously an inexperienced fighter.

I haven't forgotten either, and in fact I have already remarked twice about how Franco does not seem to be any kind of fighter and was using his greater size and strength against Husain, rather than throwing punches as Husain was doing.

Also your statement is complete conjecture.

Well, I have said 'I believe' etc.

You have no real knowledge of what the female cop was thinking

I never claimed anything about what the female cop was thinking. In fact,. 'm getting a wee bit sick and fucking tired of people claiming I made statements about the female cop's internal state. I did not. You can tell I didn't because of the complete absence of my having made such a statement.

or why she did what she did, unless you're a mind-reader.

I made no claims to knowing the female cop's mind either at the time of the event or any other time.

You've lashed yourself to a point you think is valid but to make it work you have to misrepresent the parameters of the situation.

I made a claim - that had Franco decided to not be co-operative and physically resist the female officer, she either would have failed to restrain him or would have to have taken more risk of injury to herself or Franco in subduing him than an average male officer would have.

I made no claims about the internal states of that female cop.

Now, my claims about the strength of women versus men appear to have caused some controversy, though as usual I am again discombobulated by the pearl-clutching response to uttering anodyne and obvious claims that everybody up until five minutes ago believed true,

Any time any suspect offers resistance to a police officer, the risk of injury to all parties increases.

Again, I cannot quite understand your insistence that the female cop was unequal to the task when she clearly exhibited much better skills in the situation to which she abs her partner responded.

 

[Toni]

You seem to forget that police officers are trained in hand to hand combat and the white kid was obviously an inexperienced fighter.

I haven't forgotten either, and in fact I have already remarked twice about how Franco does not seem to be any kind of fighter and was using his greater size and strength against Husain, rather than throwing punches as Husain was doing.

Also your statement is complete conjecture.

Well, I have said 'I believe' etc.

You have no real knowledge of what the female cop was thinking

I never claimed anything about what the female cop was thinking. In fact,. 'm getting a wee bit sick and fucking tired of people claiming I made statements about the female cop's internal state. I did not. You can tell I didn't because of the complete absence of my having made such a statement.

or why she did what she did, unless you're a mind-reader.

I made no claims to knowing the female cop's mind either at the time of the event or any other time.

You've lashed yourself to a point you think is valid but to make it work you have to misrepresent the parameters of the situation.

I made a claim - that had Franco decided to not be co-operative and physically resist the female officer, she either would have failed to restrain him or would have to have taken more risk of injury to herself or Franco in subduing him than an average male officer would have.

I made no claims about the internal states of that female cop.

Now, my claims about the strength of women versus men appear to have caused some controversy, though as usual I am again discombobulated by the pearl-clutching response to uttering anodyne and obvious claims that everybody up until five minutes ago believed true,

Any time any suspect offers resistance to a police officer, the risk of injury to all parties increases.

Again, I cannot quite understand your insistence that the female cop was unequal to the task when she clearly exhibited much better skills in the situation to which she and her partner responded

 

[Metaphor]

Any time any suspect offers resistance to a police officer, the risk of injury to all parties increases.

That is true but irrelevant to the claim I made.

Again, I cannot quite understand your insistence that the female cop was unequal to the task when she clearly exhibited much better skills in the situation to which she and her partner responded

I didn't make any claims about being equal or unequal to anything. I made a claim about the physical reality of a woman subduing a teenage boy, of Franco's size and age, had he decided not to co-operate.

 

[Metaphor]

Poor poor misunderstood Metaphor!

I said I had been misrepresented and false claims made. Being misrepresented can arise from misunderstandings but it can also arise from other, more deliberate, acts.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

It is dangerous and delusional to foster a belief that most women are not at the physical mercy of most men. There's a reason why women are afraid of what men could to do them physically, if the men were so inclined.

Had Franco decided not to be so cooperative with the female cop, she'd have risked unnecessary injury to herself or to Franco to subdue him, if she could have subdued him at all.

So after she was sitting on the couch next to him, she made a decision not to cuff the teen, but both she and the male did not cuff the teen later when he offered his wrists.

 

[Metaphor]

It is dangerous and delusional to foster a belief that most women are not at the physical mercy of most men. There's a reason why women are afraid of what men could to do them physically, if the men were so inclined.

Had Franco decided not to be so cooperative with the female cop, she'd have risked unnecessary injury to herself or to Franco to subdue him, if she could have subdued him at all.

I'm flattered you like my writing.

 

[Gospel]

Of course she didn't flinch when he get up from the couch. He was being entirely co-operative. Hell, he later said he thought he should have been arrested.

And the black kid wasn't being cooperative? I mean she put her knee on his back so why do that with a cooperative person when that person already has a cop on his back. The black kid must have been perceived to be uncooperative and I wonder why.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

It is dangerous and delusional to foster a belief that most women are not at the physical mercy of most men. There's a reason why women are afraid of what men could to do them physically, if the men were so inclined.

Had Franco decided not to be so cooperative with the female cop, she'd have risked unnecessary injury to herself or to Franco to subdue him, if she could have subdued him at all.

I'm flattered you like my writing.

"So after she was sitting on the couch next to him, she made a decision not to cuff the teen, but both she and the male did not cuff the teen later when he offered his wrists."

I will add--an examination of the broader picture including all the interactions, and lack thereof, of both the male and female officer does not seem consistent with your hypothesis.

 

[TomC]

US Women’s soccer generates more revenue than dues US men’s soccer. On the international stage, US wimen’s soccer teams vastly outperform US mens soccer teams.

As a sport, soccer is growing in the US. Women’s professional teams represent an extremely good opportunity to build enthusiasm for the sport, especially among girls and women.

Whatever this is, it does not belong in this thread.

It's a bit of derail. It grew out of discussing female firefighters in Australia.
Tom

 

[Metaphor]

And the black kid wasn't being cooperative? I mean she put her knee on his back so why do that with a cooperative person when that person already has a cop on his back. The black kid must have been perceived to be uncooperative and I wonder why.

I made no statement about what was happening to Husain. I made a statement about what happened to Franco and his reaction to it.

 

[Metaphor]

"So after she was sitting on the couch next to him, she made a decision not to cuff the teen, but both she and the male did not cuff the teen later when he offered his wrists."

I will add--an examination of the broader picture including all the interactions, and lack thereof, of both the male and female officer does not seem consistent with your hypothesis.

Consistent with what hypothesis?

That Franco was nearly comically co-operative?

That, if he had not been co-operative, the female officer might not have been able to subdue him, or would have risked injury to Franco or herself in subduing him?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

You seem to forget that police officers are trained in hand to hand combat and the white kid was obviously an inexperienced fighter.

I haven't forgotten either, and in fact I have already remarked twice about how Franco does not seem to be any kind of fighter and was using his greater size and strength against Husain, rather than throwing punches as Husain was doing.

He was avoiding a 1-on-1 boxing match, but also very effectively using leverage to bring his opponent off balance and into more vulnerable positions that he took advantage of while he was punching the Black teen. To be clear--he actually did get plenty of punches in. You may need to re-watch the video as there are plenty of punches hitting the Black teen.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

"So after she was sitting on the couch next to him, she made a decision not to cuff the teen, but both she and the male did not cuff the teen later when he offered his wrists."

I will add--an examination of the broader picture including all the interactions, and lack thereof, of both the male and female officer does not seem consistent with your hypothesis.

Consistent with what hypothesis?

That Franco was nearly comically co-operative?

That, if he had not been co-operative, the female officer might not have been able to subdue him, or would have risked injury to Franco or herself in subduing him?

He's there next to her with his wrists out to be cuffed. No one in their right mind would think she is considering risk of injury to herself or the teen at that point. Likewise, even after the Black teen is cuffed and the male officer is free to assist or detain the other, neither she implicitly accepts such assistance to cuff the teen nor the male officer initiates cuffing the other teen.

 

[Gospel]

I made no statement about what was happening to Husain. I made a statement about what happened to Franco and his reaction to it.

I didn't say you did. This thread is about a black kid being treated differently from an (apparently) white kid so you should expect posts on this thread to be perceived as related to that topic. You said the female cop interacted the way she did with the (apparently) white kid because he was cooperative. Maybe it's the way I started my post with a question where you believe I was saying you said the black kid was uncooperative. That was not my intention. I was taking what you described and then applying it to her interaction with the black kid. this is to measure your theory against other available data to gauge its consistency. It's inconsistent with how she treated the black kid. So it's a no, she did not treat the (apparently) white kid in that fashion because he was cooperative.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

US Women’s soccer generates more revenue than dues US men’s soccer. On the international stage, US wimen’s soccer teams vastly outperform US mens soccer teams.

Umm... did I step into the wrong thread? Also, women are drawing more at the gate, I think men's draws a good deal more for TV. Of course, the men failed to actually qualify for the World Cup finals last time.

As a sport, soccer is growing in the US. Women’s professional teams represent an extremely good opportunity to build enthusiasm for the sport, especially among girls and women.

That is all true, but I don't think it was right for the USWNT to start that fight against the teen at the mall.

 

[TomC]

It comes down to "the woman cop was more competent at the start of the encounter," or "racism in spades," or potentially both.

She was so much more competent that discussion of her capabilities is a bit ludicrous. It's quite possible that had she gotten there 10 seconds before the male cop, it would all have ended right then. Because she could have handled both boys better than her partner handled one.

But that also brings up a different possibility, the proximity of the cops when they arrived at a dead run. Had she been closer to the black boy and grabbed him, and the male cop grabbed the white boy, it might have been the white boy manhandled.
I dunno.
Tom

 

[TomC]

... did I step into the wrong thread?

OMFG!
A derail on an IIDB thread?
Tom