Police shooting in Atlanta aka "Sir, this is a Wendy's drive-through"

[barbos]

I knew a white guy who was caught sleeping drunk in a car. They gave him a ride home.
....
....
But when we finally found his car next day, windshield was smashed.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I knew a white guy who was caught sleeping drunk in a car. They gave him a ride home.
....
....
But when we finally found his car next day, windshield was smashed.

See? White people have it bad, too!

 

[ruby sparks]

It would help if your side didn't continually misframe the situations. He was not killed for falling asleep. He was killed for shooting at a cop.

True. But the police fully knew it was a taser. They saw it. That is why they were shouting ‘he’s got the taser’ and ‘drop the taser’. I believe they had already established that he did not have another weapon. They also seemed to have checked his ID against his car, so they knew they had his address and his car. They also knew why he was running away from them. He was running away to (stupidly) try to avoid the consequences of his drunk driving arrest.

There is no need for police to shoot someone dead in situations like this. It is bad policing. It wouldn’t matter in what country it was in or what colour any of the people involved were. It’s literally overkill, in the circumstances. I would actually be surprised if such things happened openly or went unquestioned or were thought to be ok in North Korea, China, Nigeria, South Africa or a number of other countries that people in the US think are a bit dodgy or uncivilised as regards law and order.

That said, it is quite possible that it will be seen as justified by American legal standards. I don’t know the exact criteria. But it is at least a controversial shooting and this sort of thing needs to stop happening.

I am inclined not to harshly blame the individual officers or see them as racists. Nor did they treat him badly up until he very foolishly resisted, grabbed their taser, ran off and tried to fire the taser at them. And they were totally justified in arresting him in the first instance. He had committed a crime.

It seems more likely that the policing system and/or their training, and rules of engagement (specifically around permission to resort to deadly force) are more the problem.

Burning the Wendy’s is appalling and criminal. I still think the resignation and the sacking were unnecessary (an investigation would have been enough, imo) but at the same time there is something wrong with the policing. And judging by previous cases, the officers would likely not have been blamed. So I can see why there is anger about policing.

 

[Treedbear]

…

I suspect that in many cases this has something to do with racism. But sure as shit it's a systemic problem.

Since white people get shot by police too, I call BS.
Where race comes into it is that when a white guy gets shot by police at a fast food restaurant, other white people don't immediately torch it in his honor.

...

Apparently you're not half as progressive as Attorney General Bill Barr on that:

“I think there's racism in the United States still but I don't think that the law enforcement system is systemically racist,” Barr told interviewer Margaret Brennan.

He added that he understood the distrust of the African-American community given the history of “explicitly racist” institutions in the U.S.
...

 

[ruby sparks]

Apparently you're not half as progressive as Attorney General Bill Barr on that:

“I think there's racism in the United States still but I don't think that the law enforcement system is systemically racist,” Barr told interviewer Margaret Brennan.

He added that he understood the distrust of the African-American community given the history of “explicitly racist” institutions in the U.S.
...

It’s good to see him going at least half way.

It’s just a pity things had to get this bad for people like him to come out and emphasise it openly.

 

[DBT]

A taser is not designed to be a deadly weapon. It is not a huge threat to police. There is no need to immediately shoot someone holding a taser.

 

[ruby sparks]

A taser is not designed to be a deadly weapon. It is not a huge threat to police. There is no need to immediately shoot someone holding a taser.

I guess the counter-argument is that the alternative would have been to let a drunk and agitated man with a taser get away, and would involve the potential that he could have harmed others, either with the taser or in some other way, before he could be recaptured.

But surely even allowing for that possibility should not be enough to morally justify killing him?

Not to mention the possibility of missing him with the bullet. It was dark, he was running, as was the police officer. It was a public setting. There would be a risk in such situations (possibly a small one if the officer was well-trained in guns and was a good shot) that shooting could accidentally endanger others, surely. So in some ways there’s a wider, public safety consideration to the police readily resorting to deadly force out on the streets. I read that sometimes they do accidentally shoot innocent bystanders.

 

[Lumpenproletariat]

Hire more big Black guys to be cops.

I just saw the Atlanta shooting.

It's similar to many previous cases: A Big Black Man resists arrest from 2 or 3 wimpy White cops -- one thing leads to another, and the wimpy White cops shoot the guy.

Solution: stop hiring wimpy White girly-men to do the job of a 300-pounder.


Wimpy Whites are too quick to resort to the equalizer shooting device. Start hiring Big Black Dudes to enforce the law on Big Black Dudes who resist arrest.

As long as they insist on continuing to hire wimpy White girly-men, they will continue to have 300-pound Black males getting beaten and shot dead.

("More training" is not the solution. They've had "more training" -- and more and more and more -- for decades.)

 

[ruby sparks]

"More training" is not the solution. They've had "more training" -- and more and more and more -- for decades.

I think a lot of the forces could do with 'more, better' training that has a slightly different emphasis.

Also better ways to ensure bad cops are weeded out and/or don't get re-employed somewhere else (reminds me of the problem with catholic priest relocations). And possibly higher standards for recruitment and vetting, if that were possible.

 

[repoman]

I just saw the Atlanta shooting.

It's similar to many previous cases: A Big Black Man resists arrest from 2 or 3 wimpy White cops -- one thing leads to another, and the wimpy White cops shoot the guy.

Solution: stop hiring wimpy White girly-men to do the job of a 300-pounder.


Wimpy Whites are too quick to resort to the equalizer shooting device. Start hiring Big Black Dudes to enforce the law on Big Black Dudes who resist arrest.

As long as they insist on continuing to hire wimpy White girly-men, they will continue to have 300-pound Black males getting beaten and shot dead.

("More training" is not the solution. They've had "more training" -- and more and more and more -- for decades.)

And maybe also this:

Obviously blacks cannot live with white policing and white ideas of justice and order. So blacks should be given some kind of formalized black power over their own communities.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

A taser is not designed to be a deadly weapon. It is not a huge threat to police. There is no need to immediately shoot someone holding a taser.

That idea is not universally agreed upon. When the police taser was first introduced to the civilian market, police organizations objected to selling it to civilians because, as they put it, it is a deadly weapon.

That isn't the only time they were hypocritical about lethal / nonlethal weaponry either.

They really do consider their "non-lethal" weapons to be lethal if they aren't in control of them. That is another problem with the police.

 

[fromderinside]

It's not the police. It's the training of police. If there is no immediate safety issue support for citizen should be foremost concern. Weapons should not be considered at all. Tasers, guns, clubs, any action that might lead to force force should be off the table, probably stored in vehicle. If physical issue is involved in mind set of officers communicate from distance.

Asleep in car?

No problem.

Offer him/her ride home or to follow person home, treat to cup of coffee at coffee shop or diner, call relatives or support personnel to help person found. No need for bringing civil nor legal options options into play. If cop suspect he/she is impaired offer to bring support to recover person and property.

Yeah, it's all so ....logical.

Cops are public servants not advance military patrols.

 

[southernhybrid]

The autopsy was done and the shooting was ruled a homicide. Good. The word is that the cop will soon be charged with either manslaughter or murder.

There were so many better ways this could have been handled without killing the man.

 

[ZiprHead]

There are also some 2-shot models.


It cannot be claimed that he had only one shot then.

Also, tazers maximum range is ren feet.

Source? Also, how many is ren?

The guy running away was a lot further away than ten feet when he was shot. The cops were in absolutely no danger at that point.

He may not have posed an immediate threat, but he was a continued threat to others if he were to be allowed to escape. For example, he could have used the stolen taser to carjack somebody. He has, after all, shown willingness to use violence to get away.

A TASER device fires two small dart-like electrodes, which stay connected to the main unit by conductive wire as they are propelled by small compressed nitrogen charges.[20][21] The cartridge contains a pair of electrodes and propellant for a single shot (or three shots in the X3 model) and is replaced after each use. There are a number of cartridges designated by range, with the maximum at 10 feet (3.048 m).[21] Cartridges available to non-law enforcement consumers are limited to 5 feet (1.524 m).[22]

 Taser

 

[Gospel]

The autopsy was done and the shooting was ruled a homicide. Good. The word is that the cop will soon be charged with either manslaughter or murder.

There were so many better ways this could have been handled without killing the man.

One of them being after Rayshard fired the taser (and missed) the teaser was no longer a threat and he could have used his taser instead of dropping it and using his gun. Being that I wasn't in the officer's shoes I don't know what went through his mind in the heat of it. After all:

Rayshard resisted arrest
Rayshard fought with two officers
Rayshard stole a teaser
Rayshard lead them on a brief foot chase
Rayshard fired a taser at an officer

I don't know how good the officer's training was, how long he's been on the force, what his experience level is and I damn sure have no idea what kind of person he is personally. when encountering all of what Rayshard did above. Which ultimately lead to an officers choice to discard his taser and instead of returning fire in likewise manner (taser) chose to use his gun (a risk to the public in itself). It's not like they didn't already check Rayshard for other weapons so he couldn't have mistaken the taser for a gun. Heat of the moment is my guess; but it was clearly a mistake on the officers part in my opinion. Rayshard didn't handle the situation lawfully either, though it seems I have to either choose to defend the officer or Rayshard 100% according to some unspoken consensus.

 

[ZiprHead]

A taser is not designed to be a deadly weapon. It is not a huge threat to police. There is no need to immediately shoot someone holding a taser.

Every police officer is tased, and OC sprayed for that matter, during training.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The autopsy was done and the shooting was ruled a homicide. Good. The word is that the cop will soon be charged with either manslaughter or murder.

There were so many better ways this could have been handled without killing the man.

That's what so many folks don't seem to understand. Where's the awareness on the part of the officers? Don't they think about these things when they enter into a situation. Shouldn't we all be asking ourselves how it is that a person asleep in a car ends up being shot? Don't officers think proactively when they enter a situation? It's so bizarre.

 

[Rhea]

Solution: stop hiring wimpy White girly-men to do the job of a 300-pounder.

Please stop using females as an insult for male behavior.
The fraidy-cat men are acting as fraidy-cat men as men do.

Do not toss around being female as the worst thing a man can be, when they are men acting like themselves.

It is unwarranted, untrue and turns you into a douchebag man when you say it.

 

[fromderinside]

Speaking of fraidy cats, I remember getting drunk when I was young and being enticed into a fight with some bully hopeful. Unfortunately for him he was all bluster and no performance. He tried to sucker punch me but he, like Morse, telegraphed like a champ. Blocked both gut and jaw flails, set up lefty and proceeded to loosen his teeth by delivering strongly anchored punches from underneath his flailing with anything but actual punches.

His buds called for a pause and allowed that since he had just had dental work done it wouldn't be right if he jeopardized daddy's payment for said work. So let's call the whole thing off.

Cheshired. Sed "sure". Left satisfied.

Sound about right?

 

[Toni]

Solution: stop hiring wimpy White girly-men to do the job of a 300-pounder.

Please stop using females as an insult for male behavior.
The fraidy-cat men are acting as fraidy-cat men as men do.

Do not toss around being female as the worst thing a man can be, when they are men acting like themselves.

It is unwarranted, untrue and turns you into a douchebag man when you say it.

Thank you!

That turn of speech has grated at me since I was a small child. Every time I think society has moved past the idea that being a girl or a woman is the worst thing possible to be, it pops up again. Surely it's time to lay that to rest.