Police uniform color and negative impacts of black uniforms

[crazyfingers]

https://www.policeone.com/police-pr...uence-of-the-police-uniform-bhN9cdehTsvjzbMh/

Over my 55+ years I've had the impression that police uniforms have become more menacing looking. I recall as a kid local police wore something a bit lighter than navy blue. And their cars were blue and white. Now both are black and to me the black suggests Nazi SS uniforms and I've found it very distasteful.

The link above provides a description of some research finding that strongly suggest that police wearing black communicates "bad person" to the public and that wearing black can cause the wearer perceive himself as "bad person".

Over the years I've increasingly come under the belief that police need a major attitude adjustment. Flagrant violation of traffic laws. Unsafe driving. The attitude that all citizens are potential criminals instead of innocent people for whom the police work. Recent events make me only more certain of that police need a wholesale culture change.

The article above in policeone.com even says that black uniforms may be sending the wrong message. I agree.

 

[ruby sparks]

Yep. I agree.

Complicated though, isn’t it, in a way?

Why is black associated with bad (or for that matter white with good)? When did that start, and/or where (not in Africa, surely)?

‘Western’ thing? Or just a human thing (night = danger)?

Because I’m thinking that having black skin (a ‘uniform’ you can’t take off) might not be an entirely unrelated issue in this.

 

[Tigers!]

Quite a few years ago now the Victorian police used to wear a rather lovely light blue uniform.
Someone thought that that did not reflect enough authority and so they changed to a much darker blue, darker than navy blue.

I must admit that I did not and still do not like it. It can make them appear chunky and somewhat malevolent.

Certainly when they are lined up shoulder to shoulder it does make for a more imposing line that the light blue ever did.

 

[Elixir]

Something like this would make it easier to find a cop when you need one...

 

[J842P]

Yep. I agree.

Complicated though, isn’t it, in a way?

Why is black associated with bad (or for that matter white with good)? When did that start, and/or where (not in Africa, surely)?

‘Western’ thing? Or just a human thing (night = danger)?

Because I’m thinking that having black skin (a ‘uniform’ you can’t take off) might not be an entirely unrelated issue in this.

Pretty much no one has black skin. Most people with "black skin" have dark brown skin. Some people do indeed have high enough levels of melanin where it appears effectively black, but that isn't typical. If you asked a child who had never heard the term "black person" what color is this guy, they would probably say brown, not black.

A lot of white people generally do not have white skin either, although some people do. But most white people range from light brown, to pinkish/peach-colored.

Anyway, I think the negative association of black isn't too difficult to explain or understand. Black is the color of the night, of darkness. A lot of scary stuff happens at night, in the dark.

 

[fromderinside]

Anyway, I think the negative association of black isn't too difficult to explain or understand. Black is the color of the night, of darkness. A lot of scary stuff happens at night, in the dark.

That's pretty narrow, that is it doesn't explain visible or belief attribute discrimination worldwide.

How about we revert to current partitioning based on social bias. That would be white and persons of color, except in asian nations where it is either this religion and infidels or asian - pick your tribe - and others.

South Africa society has a really long hard path to navigate path back to egalitarian.

 

[Patooka]

This works

If nothing else, it will separate the people who genuinely want to protect and serve and the people who want to be dictators in their own minds.

 

[bilby]

This works

If nothing else, it will separate the people who genuinely want to protect and serve and the people who want to be dictators in their own minds.

Ben Elton agrees - this is a screenshot from Google Books of his 1993 novel This Other Eden:

 

[ruby sparks]

There’s gotta be a middle ground between ‘commanding authority’ and ‘looking silly’.



Not that I’m suggesting that pink should not, in an ideal world, command authority.

 

[ruby sparks]

Also....to be accurate and fair...George Floyd was killed by a guy in a light blue short-sleeved shirt.

The George Orwell Brigades that arrive later are a different kettle of fish.

And I just learned yesterday that there are an incredible 18,000 separate police forces in America! Wtf? That can’t be helping as regards unified standards and codes of conduct. Bloomin’ free market policing.

But back on point, maybe there is still a variety of uniforms, both between forces and within special units etc.

 

[bigfield]

Quite a few years ago now the Victorian police used to wear a rather lovely light blue uniform.
Someone thought that that did not reflect enough authority and so they changed to a much darker blue, darker than navy blue.

I must admit that I did not and still do not like it. It can make them appear chunky and somewhat malevolent.

I felt the same when SAPOL made this change as well. I think it's a deliberate attempt to make them look more intimidating.

I'd be quite happy to bring the light blue shirts back. Our police should be emulating London's Met, not the NYPD.

 

[crazyfingers]

Also....to be accurate and fair...George Floyd was killed by a guy in a light blue short-sleeved shirt.

The George Orwell Brigades that arrive later are a different kettle of fish.

And I just learned yesterday that there are an incredible 18,000 separate police forces in America! Wtf? That can’t be helping as regards unified standards and codes of conduct. Bloomin’ free market policing.

But back on point, maybe there is still a variety of uniforms, both between forces and within special units etc.

In much of the US there are various police authorities. There are:

1: Municipal police (City/town)
2: County (multiple towns/cities may be on one county. County police are usually called Sheriffs and sheriffs deputies.
3: State Police

At the city or state level there may be other specific police forces. For example Boston has a specific police force for the train and bus system (Subway)

Federal typically the FBI but there are other authorities as you may have seen in the news like ICE (Border patrol who actually have powers within 100 miles of any border including the ocean. They an be far inland.

Then military including national guard. Typically the state governor would request national guard help in extreme emergencies. Using military without the expressed request of the governor is a huge no-no.

In many areas of the country the municipal and county may or may not have any real power. Some rural areas have no real municipal police and it's the county sheriff who does the policing. In more densely populated areas it's the municipal police who are the main authority and country sheriffs have little. In Massachusetts pretty much all the county sheriff does is run the jails.

 

[ruby sparks]

Thanks, crazyfingers.

In the UK as a whole, there are only 43 police forces.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) covers all of them and as far as I am aware any police killing is automatically referred to the commission (for an investigation) immediately.

Does the USA have such a body, or is there a similar process? I often read that the FBI take over some investigations, and I guess that’s a national body, but it’s not like the IPCC, which has publicly-appointed non-police members and investigators. They are often or usually relevant experts, not politicians, so the commission would not compare to something like a senate committee either. It’s also not quite the same as the Internal Affairs Division in the USA (because I think that’s basically police investigating other police) but that might be the nearest analogy. I’m not sure.

The commission has powers, but it is often said that it does not have enough teeth and that it is under-funded. But it is nonetheless generally respected.

Apologies for drifting away from the OP.

 

[bilby]

Also....to be accurate and fair...George Floyd was killed by a guy in a light blue short-sleeved shirt.

The George Orwell Brigades that arrive later are a different kettle of fish.

And I just learned yesterday that there are an incredible 18,000 separate police forces in America! Wtf? That can’t be helping as regards unified standards and codes of conduct. Bloomin’ free market policing.

But back on point, maybe there is still a variety of uniforms, both between forces and within special units etc.

In much of the US there are various police authorities. There are:

1: Municipal police (City/town)
2: County (multiple towns/cities may be on one county. County police are usually called Sheriffs and sheriffs deputies.
3: State Police

At the city or state level there may be other specific police forces. For example Boston has a specific police force for the train and bus system (Subway)

Federal typically the FBI but there are other authorities as you may have seen in the news like ICE (Border patrol who actually have powers within 100 miles of any border including the ocean. They an be far inland.

Then military including national guard. Typically the state governor would request national guard help in extreme emergencies. Using military without the expressed request of the governor is a huge no-no.

In many areas of the country the municipal and county may or may not have any real power. Some rural areas have no real municipal police and it's the county sheriff who does the policing. In more densely populated areas it's the municipal police who are the main authority and country sheriffs have little. In Massachusetts pretty much all the county sheriff does is run the jails.

You probably need between sixty and a couple of hundred police forces, including federal and specialist forces. 18,000 (many with only one or two officers) is just stupid. When there's just the sheriff as the entire staff of a police department, to whom does the role of investigating his alleged misconduct fall? Who is there to remind him that he shouldn't stray outside the bounds of his legal authority? Where's his support, his training, his mentoring, his counselling?

It's a recipe for totalitarian disaster on a microcosmic scale - and the corrupt rural sheriff shaking down outsiders is such a common trope in American fiction, it must surely have a strong basis in reality.

 

[crazyfingers]

Thanks, crazyfingers.

In the UK as a whole, there are only 43 police forces.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) covers all of them and as far as I am aware any police killing is automatically referred to the commission (for an investigation) immediately.

Policing the police tends to be a local thing though the Feds can get involved.

There are supposed to be commissions that can investigate police misconduct but as this story in the NYT points out, Police Unions are a strong force to thwart these investigations or any reforms. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/us/police-unions-minneapolis-kroll.html Sorry if it's behind a pay-wall.

Over the past five years, as demands for reform have mounted in the aftermath of police violence in cities like Ferguson, Mo., Baltimore and now Minneapolis, police unions have emerged as one of the most significant roadblocks to change. The greater the political pressure for reform, the more defiant the unions often are in resisting it — with few city officials, including liberal leaders, able to overcome their opposition.

They aggressively protect the rights of members accused of misconduct, often in arbitration hearings that they have battled to keep behind closed doors. And they have also been remarkably effective at fending off broader change, using their political clout and influence to derail efforts to increase accountability.

The public has generally been behind the police. Politicians who try to reform police run the risk of police unions aggressively attacking (in the press or for real) any politician who tries to create reform.

I recall in Massachusetts that it was the law that a cop was required to be at any roadside utility or other work. This was a total waste as most the time these cops did nothing but either stare down the hole or check their phones. The cops unions claimed that the cops at these street-side work sites were 'fighting crime" but I doubt that anyone who drives a car in Massachusetts actually believed that crap. Typically there would be no direction of traffic or anything. They just stare down the hole or chat or check their phones. A total waste of money because these cops were being paid overtime. For years the police unions were able to scare the politicians from enacting any change.

At one point the law was finally changed requiring a cop only on roads with speed limits of 40MPH or greater. But since that law was passed, I have seen zero change. Cops are still guarding any work done by a road even when the speed limit is 15 mph and one car may pass every 5 minutes. Thisis because local contractors are afraid to not hire a cop on overtime pay. It's pure extortion.

Just a few days ago my neighbor was having his driveway re-coated. I live on a dead-end street, 25 MPH and a car goes by maybe once every 10 minutes. Still a cop was there getting overtime pay. This all because everyone is afraid to cross the police union. And of course the cop was dressed in black and had on all of his weapons. They have on so much crap that when they stand there they have to hold their arms out a bit and it makes them look like they are planning to pull their gun out.