• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

Pope goes after MAGA Jesus

Joined
Mar 15, 2001
Messages
8,608
Location
Massachusetts USA
Basic Beliefs
Secular Humanism
Here is an interesting story from CNN. It claims that the current dust-up between Trump and the Pope is really more about the Pope trying to discredit the MAGA Jesus. That vengeful, cruel, warmonger Jesus that the MAGAs think makes war and cruelty towards others a-OK.

Pope Leo is not simply challenging Trump. He’s critiquing MAGA Jesus, the version of Jesus some of the president’s followers have often invoked in recent years.

The MAGA Jesus is not the one taught in Sunday School — the nonviolent, itinerant teacher who preached beatitudes such as “blessed are the meek.” He is the “warrior Christ” — the action-hero Jesus depicted in the Book of Revelation with eyes like “flames of fire” and “a robe dipped in blood” who leads the armies of heaven while riding a white horse.

This is the square-jawed Jesus wearing a red MAGA hat whose image is often displayed at Trump’s rallies. It’s the version of Christianity that Trump alluded to when he recently said God supports America’s war with Iran.

What’s changed in recent years is that many American fundamentalists and evangelicals prefer the MAGA Jesus to the real Jesus. This is what Peter Wehner, an author and former speechwriter for President George W. Bush, noted in an essay earlier this year entitled, “MAGA Jesus is not the real Jesus.”

Right-wing movements “are prying Christianity further and further away from the ethic and teachings of Jesus,” he wrote. “The Trump administration has gone one step further, inverting authentic Christian faith by selling in a dozen different ways cruelty and the will to power in the name of Jesus. It has welcomed Christians into a theological twilight zone, where the beatitudes are invoked on behalf of a political movement with authoritarian tendencies.”

This kind of Jesus doesn’t arise in a vacuum. This muscular version of Jesus has become increasingly visible because MAGA is not just a political movement; it’s also a religious movement. It offers Trump as its “chosen one,” and Israel is the “chosen nation.”

While I don't believe that there is a "real" Jesus, I do think that MAGA politics has created a mean and nasty Jesus that allows and encourages the cruelty for their twisted political purposes. A MAGA Jesus to support racism, sexism, hate towards those that are not straight white people.

 
The southern Virginia fundamentalists when I was young coupled with Supply-Side Jesus and Patron Saint Raygun of the prep schools over in the city made me realize I was atheist. This maga Jesus is like an amalgamation of the worst of those. It would make me very anti-religious if not for the flaming rainbow liberals at the Church of Christ up the street. They do real charity just for the sake of kindness.
 
Here is an interesting story from CNN. It claims that the current dust-up between Trump and the Pope is really more about the Pope trying to discredit the MAGA Jesus. That vengeful, cruel, warmonger Jesus that the MAGAs think makes war and cruelty towards others a-OK.

Pope Leo is not simply challenging Trump. He’s critiquing MAGA Jesus, the version of Jesus some of the president’s followers have often invoked in recent years.

The MAGA Jesus is not the one taught in Sunday School — the nonviolent, itinerant teacher who preached beatitudes such as “blessed are the meek.” He is the “warrior Christ” — the action-hero Jesus depicted in the Book of Revelation with eyes like “flames of fire” and “a robe dipped in blood” who leads the armies of heaven while riding a white horse.

This is the square-jawed Jesus wearing a red MAGA hat whose image is often displayed at Trump’s rallies. It’s the version of Christianity that Trump alluded to when he recently said God supports America’s war with Iran.

What’s changed in recent years is that many American fundamentalists and evangelicals prefer the MAGA Jesus to the real Jesus. This is what Peter Wehner, an author and former speechwriter for President George W. Bush, noted in an essay earlier this year entitled, “MAGA Jesus is not the real Jesus.”

Right-wing movements “are prying Christianity further and further away from the ethic and teachings of Jesus,” he wrote. “The Trump administration has gone one step further, inverting authentic Christian faith by selling in a dozen different ways cruelty and the will to power in the name of Jesus. It has welcomed Christians into a theological twilight zone, where the beatitudes are invoked on behalf of a political movement with authoritarian tendencies.”

This kind of Jesus doesn’t arise in a vacuum. This muscular version of Jesus has become increasingly visible because MAGA is not just a political movement; it’s also a religious movement. It offers Trump as its “chosen one,” and Israel is the “chosen nation.”

While I don't believe that there is a "real" Jesus, I do think that MAGA politics has created a mean and nasty Jesus that allows and encourages the cruelty for their twisted political purposes. A MAGA Jesus to support racism, sexism, hate towards those that are not straight white people.

From what I can tell, and I am no biblical scholar, MAGA relies heavily on the crime and punishment, vengeance, retribution and end days parts of the Bible, bypassing the New Testament almost entirely. Ultimately, it’s a death cult and imo, feeds and feeds off of depression. Plus of course all of the greed and avarice. It appeals to people who feel as though, through no fault of their own, all the good things in life have passed them by but there is hope in the next life—after all of the meanies and liberals have been thoroughly punished and condemned to hell.

In fact, they are hoping for liberals what they feel they themselves suffer.

In a way, they have a point. There definitely is a liberal elite ( the conservative elite being held blameless for the exact same and worse prejudices against the great unwashed) in that many of the ‘liberals’ do in fact consider themselves to be smarter, more moral, better informed, kinder, more open and accepting and therefore more deserving. #Notallliberals even on this forum. But, imo, it’s a fair point.

For me, I see it most baldly in the rural/urban divide. Urbanites tend to see themselves as smarter, more ambitious, better educated and much more accepting and sophisticated. Therefore more deserving.

In most states in the US, the majority of the state’s population is contained in urban areas, ringed by suburbs which, as a whole are less liberal and more conservative. Rural areas are sen as being more conservative and therefore more to blame for ejecting conservative legislators/govs and POTUS.

I don’t think that math actually works as well as liberals do. If the larger portion of any state’s population is urban and urban = liberal, one would expect there to be very few conservative victories in many, if not most states.

Why do more rural areas tend to be more conservative, as a whole?

Well, rural areas tend to be poorer, and older. Non-urbanites who work full time are co more likely to fall below the poverty line. Services, including hospital care, are sparser, per capita, and more difficult to access. If you include mental health services, social services to help support families and individuals in need, even sparser.

Yet, for most of us, when we talk about poverty, our minds draw a picture of someone who is black and desperately poor and living in an inner city. Most of the income based services are directed to urban areas.

Rural people feel as though the system ignores them. Policies and laws and agencies that most affect them are enacted by people who are urban based, even if they grew up in rural areas. Those rules and regulations are heavily affected by lobbying efforts of big corporations who care about their bottom lines and stock holders. Environmental laws, tariffs, gas prices, government t support for various industries are determined by forces far away from rural areas and affect them more immediately and disproportionately.

It is far, far, far too easy to see people who are different from us as being more different from us than they really are.

All of us, or at least most of us, want to feel somewhat understood and respected as human beings. We all share basic needs for food, shelter, warmth, human connection, love. We need to quit dividing ourselves into us vs them.
 
MAGA doesn't worship Jesus. I'd argue they don't even worship god. They worship the angry idealization of Yahweh in the Torah. They don't seek to be with God. They seek to usurp God's mandate as an authorization for their use of power against whomever they choose isn't worthy.

This is exampled by Hegseth quoting the "part of the BIble" from Pulp Fiction because he likes the anger and fiery/vengeful judgment portion of it. He certainly didn't learn that quote in Church.

MAGA religion is about putting "those people" in "their place" and using the image of a god as their authorization to do so. After all, that is kind of the origin of religion and its abuse since its inception. Hillary Clinton was dead on accurate.
 
Last edited:
While I don't believe that there is a "real" Jesus, I do think that MAGA politics has created a mean and nasty Jesus that allows and encourages the cruelty for their twisted political purposes.
On the contrary, that Jesus always existed, and has frequently dominated Christianity (including Roman Catholicism).

He was marginalised by Happy Clappy Hippy Jesus in the mid C20th, and few people alive today remember Him as the Jesus they learned about as children. But He's not new.

The crusaders, the inquisition, and the British Empire that brought the twin benefits of Christianity and Slavery to Africa and onwards to the New World, were not followers of some hippy who wanted all men to live in peace and harmony. Or rather, they understood that "all men" only ever referred to natural born Christian men with Christian ancestors from Western Europe.

MAGA are not creative. They are not novel. They are not an abberation.

The abberation is the idea that peoples are fundamentally born equal; That they are all humans worthy of the same basic level of respect, and of access to the opportunity to contribute to the operation and benefits of society.

It's a long marginalised idea, that could only rise to dominance in an industrialised world in which scarcity, hunger, and famine exist primarily as a consequence of war, rather than as a cause of it.

It's a good idea; Or at least, it is far superior to the 'Onward Christian Soldiers' idea it challenges. But whether it will be a successful idea remains to be seen.

"Let's stop squabbling, toiling, and being selfish, so we can all get rich together, and throw parties" is an even better idea. That's the secular idea behind Western Europe, which has dumped both Jesuses. It is generally viewed as weak and decadent. But it's fun, it works, and it has persisted for long enough that only geriatrics and a handful of devotees of foreign ideas (like MAGAism) in Western Europe describe themselves as 'Christian'.

I haven't given up hope that it can rise to dominate the world. But it's far harder to dominate the world with an idea that specifically eschews violence in favor of agreements, cooperation and trade, than it is to dominate the world with the idea that dropping explosives on anyone who disagrees with you is the best course of action, endorsed by God almighty.
 
MAGA doesn't worship Jesus. I'd argue they don't even worship god. They worship the angry idealization of Yahweh in the Torah. They don't seek to be with God. They seek to usurp God's mandate as an authorization for their use of power against whomever they choose isn't worthy.

This is exampled by Hegseth quoting the "part of the BIble" from Pulp Fiction because he likes the anger and fiery/vengeful judgment portion of it. He certainly didn't learn that quote in Church.

MAGA religion is about putting "those people" in "their place" and using the image of a god as their authorization to do so. After all, that is kind of the origin of religion and its abuse since its inception. Hillary Clinton was dead on accurate.
Yahweh in the Torah is God from the Old Testament. Written a bit differently, sure. God in the New Testament is the same God. So is Allah. Different people telling the story so different takes. Plus many translations, not done with pure hearts to share the word of God but to serve the power structure in place. I know a tiny bit more about how that played out re: the New Testament t and virtually nothing about how it played out re: Torah or Koran.

I don’t believe that it was all done with evil intent. Most of it, sure if you count need fir power and control as evil.

But yes, I agree that MAGA doesn’t worship God in any way that I have understood God to be or to mean. It is a cult. That’s the only correct term I can think of to use for MAGA.

I don’t think Hegseth has learned much or anything in church or anywhere except from fellow Nazis and those with adjacent ideologies. He’s honestly only interested in feeding his ego and admiring his image in the mirror. So: a dumber, better looking, lower class and more puerile version of Trump.
 
John Fugelsang was on Ali Velshi this morning. He said Trump isn't having a feud with the Pope. He's having a feud with Jesus himself.
 
I'm thinking back to '08, when Obama made reference to small town voters in a stagnant economy, "clinging to guns and religion." You'd have thought he prayed to Mecca in the Washington Cathedral, from the hailstorm of denunciation he faced. For years afterward, for the entirety of his presidency, the Fox commentators trotted out that phrase to show how anti-faith he was.
Now that the Right's hero is full-on, legit blasphemous, and making tasteless and ridiculous comments about the Pope -- well, I guess we're over it. The crickets are settling in.
 
The southern Virginia fundamentalists when I was young coupled with Supply-Side Jesus and Patron Saint Raygun of the prep schools over in the city made me realize I was atheist. This maga Jesus is like an amalgamation of the worst of those. It would make me very anti-religious if not for the flaming rainbow liberals at the Church of Christ up the street. They do real charity just for the sake of kindness.

Probably the United Church of Christ. The United Church of Christ is likely the most liberal of all Christian churches. On the other hand the Church of Christ is a hateful fundy group
 
The southern Virginia fundamentalists when I was young coupled with Supply-Side Jesus and Patron Saint Raygun of the prep schools over in the city made me realize I was atheist. This maga Jesus is like an amalgamation of the worst of those. It would make me very anti-religious if not for the flaming rainbow liberals at the Church of Christ up the street. They do real charity just for the sake of kindness.

Probably the United Church of Christ. The United Church of Christ is likely the most liberal of all Christian churches. On the other hand the Church of Christ is a hateful fundy group
That’s the case in my town but the Methodists are also more liberal. Some parts of the Catholic Church are quite socially liberal.
 
The southern Virginia fundamentalists when I was young coupled with Supply-Side Jesus and Patron Saint Raygun of the prep schools over in the city made me realize I was atheist. This maga Jesus is like an amalgamation of the worst of those. It would make me very anti-religious if not for the flaming rainbow liberals at the Church of Christ up the street. They do real charity just for the sake of kindness.

Probably the United Church of Christ. The United Church of Christ is likely the most liberal of all Christian churches. On the other hand the Church of Christ is a hateful fundy group
That’s the case in my town but the Methodists are also more liberal. Some parts of the Catholic Church are quite socially liberal.

Episcopals also. I think that the Episcopal church was the first of the mainline protestant churches in the US to officiate gay marriage.

My Aunt died a few weeks ago and I was deciding whether to attend the service. Their Jesus is very "sermon on the mount" Jesus. But I still didn't attend the service. But I went to the reception.
 
There is an ancient Greek proverb which declares, "Those the Gods wish to destroy, they first drive insane." Change the plural to the singular and the proverb is still relevant.
 
Back
Top Bottom