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POS Joe Walsh

What I wonder is, what does Walsh think health care insurance actually is anyway? I mean, other than the healthy paying for the sick.

Since before Obamacare was enacted, it seemed a badge of pride for someone to say they don't think healthcare is a right, but a privilege. Especially if you wanted to be part of the "greed is good", young republican douchebag club. I think this attitude is starting to finally shift in this country as people realize that most other developed democracies provide this for their citizens out of their taxes, and that they're not all socialist shithole regimes.
 
What I wonder is, what does Walsh think health care insurance actually is anyway? I mean, other than the healthy paying for the sick.

Since before Obamacare was enacted, it seemed a badge of pride for someone to say they don't think healthcare is a right, but a privilege. Especially if you wanted to be part of the "greed is good", young republican douchebag club. I think this attitude is starting to finally shift in this country as people realize that most other developed democracies provide this for their citizens out of their taxes, and that they're not all socialist shithole regimes.

The operative word "SOCIALIST" - They are programmed to see this as 1950's U.S.S.R. Communism! Most have no idea what the concept of modern socialist-democracy might be. Obviously, there is no room for Capitalism in a socialist society since there are no corporations outside of the good ol' USA that are making a profit. They have to give all potential profits to their governments.
 
Two practical points.

1) Once you decide that people won't be allowed to die if they don't have money or insurance the only remaining question is how to provide that medical care at the lowest cost.

We require hospitals to provide care to anyone who comes in the emergency room, regardless of their ability to pay. But this care for the indigent is anything but free. The hospital has to recover these costs by increasing their fees for those who can pay.

As a practical matter this means that these costs for the indigent are paid by the health insurance companies in inflated fees for the sick who have insurance. This results in higher premiums for both the healthy and the sick who have health insurance.

There is no escaping that the young and the healthy have to pay for the indigent, the old and the sick. And we have chosen the most expensive way to pay for the indigent, the old and the sick.


Having the insurance companies pay for the indigent care through inflated fees is the most expensive way possible to pay for this indigent care because any costs that are paid by the health insurance companies are increased by the insurance company's "loss ratio." Every dollar paid to the health care insurance companies in insurance premiums buys only 80¢ of medical care. And this is a maximum, the insurance companies claim that this is not enough, they want to keep more than 20¢ of every dollar in premiums that they charge.

This also makes owning a for profit hospital very profitable if you can somehow limit the number of poor people who come through the door of your emergency room. You get to charge the prevailing rate in the area as if you treated a lot of indigents without the costs of treating a lot of indigents.

The easiest way to limit the number of indigents that you have to treat is by location, location, location. Put your hospital in the wealthy suburbs where most people have insurance, in a location away from mass transit and freeways.

This leads us naturally to the second practical point.


2) Medical care in the US is the most expensive in the world because it relies the most on for profit entities to deliver it.

This is the gorilla in the room that no one dares to voice out loud. The entire approach of conservatives to the question of the delivery of medical care is that the private, for profit market through competition can do the best job of delivering high quality, low cost medical care. But it is abundantly obvious that the opposite is true, relying the for profit motive delivers the most expensive medical care.


In 1970 the US, as a percentage of GDP, had about the same medical cost per person as the other industrialized nations. Move forward to pre-ObamaCare and the medical costs per person is twice as much as the average cost in the industrial nations.

Only two things changed over this nearly forty years in the US relative to the other industrialized countries. The increased degree of the for profit motive in health care and a massive increase in the volume of federal and state government regulations covering medical care.

In 1970 medical care was largely the job of non-profits. Hospitals were owned and run by charities or governments. Individual and small group insurance, the kind of insurance bought by businesses who were too small to self-insure, were provided by the large, non-profit, community rate based insurance companies, that is, Blue Cross-Blue Shield. Medical doctors accepted that they had to treat some patients who were poor for free or at reduced cost, the latter including the elderly under Medicare.

(Under Medicare doctors accepted lower fees for rapid, unquestioned payment. In 1970 this added up to much more than the doctors had received before Medicare treating the elderly because so many of elderly then were indigent who were treated for nothing.)

All of this changed as health care slowly evolved, with the enthusiastic support of conservatives, into for profit businesses.

Conservatives pretty much explained that the second point, the massive increase in government regulation, is the reason for the massive increase in medical costs and why the miracle of competition had not worked its magic on medical costs. But for this to be true the massive increase in costs would had to of followed after the writing of the regulations. But the regulations were written in virtually every case to address observed abuses to gain increased profits. That is, the abuses and the increased profits from the abuses preceded the regulations.

To say that the regulations caused the increase in costs is the same as saying that the laws against theft and murder caused the theft and the murders. Which would be insane. The theft and the murders were the reason that the laws were written. The transformation of the medical sector into for profit businesses were the reason that the massive amount of regulation had to be imposed on the health care business.

 
So if Kimmel was poor and had no insurance they would have let newborn to die?
I am just asking about mechanics of the system. I understand that expensive operation is the only option to prevent death.

The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) is a federal law that requires anyone coming to an emergency department to be stabilized and treated, regardless of their insurance status or ability to pay, but since its enactment in 1986 has remained an unfunded mandate.
https://www.acep.org/news-media-top-banner/emtala/

In short, hospitals are required to provide minimal emergency care, so it is possible - depending on the exact medical details for Jimmy Kimmel's baby - that they might have received some medical care - and the hospital would have to eat the cost resulting in higher costs for everyone else.

The problem is that it would have to be at the emergency stage, and even them may not have resulted in the surgery needed to actually cure the condition - only stabilize the baby.

And under the old system - the one assholes like Joe Walsh want us to go back to - yes even people WITH insurance coverage were left to die... literally left to die. Insurance companies routinely denied coverage for doctor-recommended treatments (claiming said treatment wasn't covered under the plan) or that the condition was "preexisting", and people died as a result. Those were the ones WITH insurance. It was even worse for those without.

One of Jimmy Kimmel's more important points, however, was that under TrumpCare his son will have a "preexisting condition" for his entire life (just like my daughter with her Type 1 diabetes). So even the fact that Jimmy Kimmel is wealthy and had great insurance and could save his child's life - if Trump and the hateful Republicans get their way - when his son is an adult he won't be able to get his own health insurance.
 
Two practical points.

1) Once you decide that people won't be allowed to die if they don't have money or insurance the only remaining question is how to provide that medical care at the lowest cost.

We require hospitals to provide care to anyone who comes in the emergency room, regardless of their ability to pay. But this care for the indigent is anything but free. The hospital has to recover these costs by increasing their fees for those who can pay.

As a practical matter this means that these costs for the indigent are paid by the health insurance companies in inflated fees for the sick who have insurance. This results in higher premiums for both the healthy and the sick who have health insurance.

There is no escaping that the young and the healthy have to pay for the indigent, the old and the sick. And we have chosen the most expensive way to pay for the indigent, the old and the sick.


Having the insurance companies pay for the indigent care through inflated fees is the most expensive way possible to pay for this indigent care because any costs that are paid by the health insurance companies are increased by the insurance company's "loss ratio." Every dollar paid to the health care insurance companies in insurance premiums buys only 80¢ of medical care. And this is a maximum, the insurance companies claim that this is not enough, they want to keep more than 20¢ of every dollar in premiums that they charge.

This also makes owning a for profit hospital very profitable if you can somehow limit the number of poor people who come through the door of your emergency room. You get to charge the prevailing rate in the area as if you treated a lot of indigents without the costs of treating a lot of indigents.

The easiest way to limit the number of indigents that you have to treat is by location, location, location. Put your hospital in the wealthy suburbs where most people have insurance, in a location away from mass transit and freeways.

This leads us naturally to the second practical point.


2) Medical care in the US is the most expensive in the world because it relies the most on for profit entities to deliver it.

This is the gorilla in the room that no one dares to voice out loud. The entire approach of conservatives to the question of the delivery of medical care is that the private, for profit market through competition can do the best job of delivering high quality, low cost medical care. But it is abundantly obvious that the opposite is true, relying the for profit motive delivers the most expensive medical care.


In 1970 the US, as a percentage of GDP, had about the same medical cost per person as the other industrialized nations. Move forward to pre-ObamaCare and the medical costs per person is twice as much as the average cost in the industrial nations.

Only two things changed over this nearly forty years in the US relative to the other industrialized countries. The increased degree of the for profit motive in health care and a massive increase in the volume of federal and state government regulations covering medical care.

In 1970 medical care was largely the job of non-profits. Hospitals were owned and run by charities or governments. Individual and small group insurance, the kind of insurance bought by businesses who were too small to self-insure, were provided by the large, non-profit, community rate based insurance companies, that is, Blue Cross-Blue Shield. Medical doctors accepted that they had to treat some patients who were poor for free or at reduced cost, the latter including the elderly under Medicare.

(Under Medicare doctors accepted lower fees for rapid, unquestioned payment. In 1970 this added up to much more than the doctors had received before Medicare treating the elderly because so many of elderly then were indigent who were treated for nothing.)

All of this changed as health care slowly evolved, with the enthusiastic support of conservatives, into for profit businesses.

Conservatives pretty much explained that the second point, the massive increase in government regulation, is the reason for the massive increase in medical costs and why the miracle of competition had not worked its magic on medical costs. But for this to be true the massive increase in costs would had to of followed after the writing of the regulations. But the regulations were written in virtually every case to address observed abuses to gain increased profits. That is, the abuses and the increased profits from the abuses preceded the regulations.

To say that the regulations caused the increase in costs is the same as saying that the laws against theft and murder caused the theft and the murders. Which would be insane. The theft and the murders were the reason that the laws were written. The transformation of the medical sector into for profit businesses were the reason that the massive amount of regulation had to be imposed on the health care business.


^^^ This

What drives me crazy is that the concept really is so fucking simple. Trying to keep the profit-motive in is what complicates it (and makes it prohibitively expensive)
 
This leads us naturally to the second practical point.
2) Medical care in the US is the most expensive in the world because it relies the most on for profit entities to deliver it.

This is the gorilla in the room that no one dares to voice out loud. The entire approach of conservatives to the question of the delivery of medical care is that the private, for profit market through competition can do the best job of delivering high quality, low cost medical care. But it is abundantly obvious that the opposite is true, relying the for profit motive delivers the most expensive medical care.

In 1970 the US, as a percentage of GDP, had about the same medical cost per person as the other industrialized nations. Move forward to pre-ObamaCare and the medical costs per person is twice as much as the average cost in the industrial nations.

Only two things changed over this nearly forty years in the US relative to the other industrialized countries. The increased degree of the for profit motive in health care and a massive increase in the volume of federal and state government regulations covering medical care.

In 1970 medical care was largely the job of non-profits. Hospitals were owned and run by charities or governments. Individual and small group insurance, the kind of insurance bought by businesses who were too small to self-insure, were provided by the large, non-profit, community rate based insurance companies, that is, Blue Cross-Blue Shield. Medical doctors accepted that they had to treat some patients who were poor for free or at reduced cost, the latter including the elderly under Medicare.

(Under Medicare doctors accepted lower fees for rapid, unquestioned payment. In 1970 this added up to much more than the doctors had received before Medicare treating the elderly because so many of elderly then were indigent who were treated for nothing.)

All of this changed as health care slowly evolved, with the enthusiastic support of conservatives, into for profit businesses.

Conservatives pretty much explained that the second point, the massive increase in government regulation, is the reason for the massive increase in medical costs and why the miracle of competition had not worked its magic on medical costs. But for this to be true the massive increase in costs would had to of followed after the writing of the regulations. But the regulations were written in virtually every case to address observed abuses to gain increased profits. That is, the abuses and the increased profits from the abuses preceded the regulations.

To say that the regulations caused the increase in costs is the same as saying that the laws against theft and murder caused the theft and the murders. Which would be insane. The theft and the murders were the reason that the laws were written. The transformation of the medical sector into for profit businesses were the reason that the massive amount of regulation had to be imposed on the health care business.​


THAT is what needs to be addressed, and single payer is the only way AFAICS. You're right - nobody seems to want to raise the ire of the insurance and Pharma cartel. And single payer would hurt or kill the insurance companies. Pharma would survive, but they might have to cut back on their saturation advertising and have fewer people assigned to dreaming up cute names for drugs that do nothing but address the side-effects of other drugs...
 
This POS claims to be a Christian?

Yet it was Jesus who said that if a man has two coats and his neighbor none he should give up one of his coats.

Basically what this POS is saying is that the luxury of some is worth more than the basic needs of others.

A real modern day Christian.
 
This leads us naturally to the second practical point.
2) Medical care in the US is the most expensive in the world because it relies the most on for profit entities to deliver it.

This is the gorilla in the room that no one dares to voice out loud. The entire approach of conservatives to the question of the delivery of medical care is that the private, for profit market through competition can do the best job of delivering high quality, low cost medical care. But it is abundantly obvious that the opposite is true, relying the for profit motive delivers the most expensive medical care.

In 1970 the US, as a percentage of GDP, had about the same medical cost per person as the other industrialized nations. Move forward to pre-ObamaCare and the medical costs per person is twice as much as the average cost in the industrial nations.

Only two things changed over this nearly forty years in the US relative to the other industrialized countries. The increased degree of the for profit motive in health care and a massive increase in the volume of federal and state government regulations covering medical care.

In 1970 medical care was largely the job of non-profits. Hospitals were owned and run by charities or governments. Individual and small group insurance, the kind of insurance bought by businesses who were too small to self-insure, were provided by the large, non-profit, community rate based insurance companies, that is, Blue Cross-Blue Shield. Medical doctors accepted that they had to treat some patients who were poor for free or at reduced cost, the latter including the elderly under Medicare.

(Under Medicare doctors accepted lower fees for rapid, unquestioned payment. In 1970 this added up to much more than the doctors had received before Medicare treating the elderly because so many of elderly then were indigent who were treated for nothing.)

All of this changed as health care slowly evolved, with the enthusiastic support of conservatives, into for profit businesses.

Conservatives pretty much explained that the second point, the massive increase in government regulation, is the reason for the massive increase in medical costs and why the miracle of competition had not worked its magic on medical costs. But for this to be true the massive increase in costs would had to of followed after the writing of the regulations. But the regulations were written in virtually every case to address observed abuses to gain increased profits. That is, the abuses and the increased profits from the abuses preceded the regulations.

To say that the regulations caused the increase in costs is the same as saying that the laws against theft and murder caused the theft and the murders. Which would be insane. The theft and the murders were the reason that the laws were written. The transformation of the medical sector into for profit businesses were the reason that the massive amount of regulation had to be imposed on the health care business.​


THAT is what needs to be addressed, and single payer is the only way AFAICS. You're right - nobody seems to want to raise the ire of the insurance and Pharma cartel. And single payer would hurt or kill the insurance companies. Pharma would survive, but they might have to cut back on their saturation advertising and have fewer people assigned to dreaming up cute names for drugs that do nothing but address the side-effects of other drugs...


In the civilised world, the advertising of prescription drugs to audiences other than medical professionals is prohibited by law.
 
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