Post-poll Brexit poll

[Speakpigeon]

Is this new British PM more moderate or more extreme than Cameron?

I don't think those categories would be helpful. They are both economics liberals but May seems to have more of a social conscience than Cameron so her economic liberalism will be more likely mitigated by social considerations. She's been the Iron Lady alright but not in the Thatcher mould. Thatcher was small minded, a Little Englander writ large. May is said to be a bit more like Angela Merkel (and both had a cleric as father). I think it might turn into a lesson to follow for the old boys (and the odd gull) the world over. It could eventually show at least how much a determined and talented Prime Minister can change what's wrong in Britain and so how bad democacy actually is as a system of government. It won't be for lack of trying and she probably can look forward to eight years at No. 10.
EB

 

[whichphilosophy]

WTF are you on about? Cloak and Dagger implies this wasn't public knowledge. I'm sorry, but it was. If people gave a shit there would rightly have been an uproar. But their wasn't. Because people were, generally, fine with it. Are you aware of the concept "fourth estate"?

Also, most Brits who voted leave, did so on false premises. Most Brits thought the Brexit referendum was about immigration, and especially about not receiving more refugees. Johnson and Farage lied to them on what leaving the EU would entail. Now when that lie has been revealed, I'm not so sure most Brits still want to leave the EU.

I'm personally a big fan of representative democracy. I don't have any problems at all being represented by a well educated elite. I sure think it beats being represented by the, largely uneducated, hoi polloi. This referendum demonstrated why referendums, in general, are a bad idea.

Or as Richard Dawkins so eloquently expressed it:

How should I know [if we should leave the EU]? I don’t have a degree in economics. Or history. How dare you entrust such an important decision to ignoramuses like me?

https://richarddawkins.net/2016/06/...ay-on-our-eu-membership-and-that-includes-me/

It was about sovereignty and also about immigration (with no dramatic change on asylum policies) and our economy. Nothing has changed.

Are you suggesting voters have a degree in economics before they vote? Then there would still be those in favour and against. As the saying for every three economists there are 5 schools of thought. (I just made that phrase up but it's pretty true).

I believe a poll in the UK to ask who is pro Europe would probably show a range in the 90 per cent range but less are pro EU.

Gah... the British citizens are still subject to rule, regardless if they are under the rule of Brussels or London. They are no more free now. In what way is the average Brit any more sovereign outside, than inside the EU?

No, I think we should have party politics. I want for us to have elections every four or so years where we vote for a political party to represent all our interest in parliament. That's what want. To me calling a referendum is just politicians shirking their responsibilities. Which was Dawkins point.

That's not quite how I interpret that. I am not sure he is suggesting that only the educated elite vote. I don't think a democracy is shirking one's responsibilities.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Is this new British PM more moderate or more extreme than Cameron?

I don't think those categories would be helpful. They are both economics liberals but May seems to have more of a social conscience than Cameron so her economic liberalism will be more likely mitigated by social considerations. She's been the Iron Lady alright but not in the Thatcher mould. Thatcher was small minded, a Little Englander writ large. May is said to be a bit more like Angela Merkel (and both had a cleric as father). I think it might turn into a lesson to follow for the old boys (and the odd gull) the world over. It could eventually show at least how much a determined and talented Prime Minister can change what's wrong in Britain and so how bad democacy actually is as a system of government. It won't be for lack of trying and she probably can look forward to eight years at No. 10.
EB

We like our judges to rule and establish case law precedents in the common law principle. This prevents autocratic rule by governments who would seek to evade the law unless they pass laws to the contrary. However the tendency is to pass laws which contain the wisdom of several judgements taking into individual circumstances in each case.

We also like to elect our parliaments to make laws (even if we disagree with some for we can elect someone to change these). We don't like laws that can vitiate our own laws. The Euro-grovelers gave these away on a platter to their masters in the EU.

Teresa May could very well last for 8 years and based on her track record is very persistent and resourceful. She got rid of that Jordanian Terrorist 'The Hook.' despite Eu red tape which she was critical of.

 

[angelo]

If the government doesn't cut back on immigration, it's all for nought! Brexit was more about that than any other reason.

 

[DrZoidberg]

WTF are you on about? Cloak and Dagger implies this wasn't public knowledge. I'm sorry, but it was. If people gave a shit there would rightly have been an uproar. But their wasn't. Because people were, generally, fine with it. Are you aware of the concept "fourth estate"?

Also, most Brits who voted leave, did so on false premises. Most Brits thought the Brexit referendum was about immigration, and especially about not receiving more refugees. Johnson and Farage lied to them on what leaving the EU would entail. Now when that lie has been revealed, I'm not so sure most Brits still want to leave the EU.

I'm personally a big fan of representative democracy. I don't have any problems at all being represented by a well educated elite. I sure think it beats being represented by the, largely uneducated, hoi polloi. This referendum demonstrated why referendums, in general, are a bad idea.

Or as Richard Dawkins so eloquently expressed it:

How should I know [if we should leave the EU]? I don’t have a degree in economics. Or history. How dare you entrust such an important decision to ignoramuses like me?

https://richarddawkins.net/2016/06/...ay-on-our-eu-membership-and-that-includes-me/

It was about sovereignty and also about immigration (with no dramatic change on asylum policies) and our economy. Nothing has changed.

Are you suggesting voters have a degree in economics before they vote? Then there would still be those in favour and against. As the saying for every three economists there are 5 schools of thought. (I just made that phrase up but it's pretty true).

I believe a poll in the UK to ask who is pro Europe would probably show a range in the 90 per cent range but less are pro EU.

Gah... the British citizens are still subject to rule, regardless if they are under the rule of Brussels or London. They are no more free now. In what way is the average Brit any more sovereign outside, than inside the EU?

No, I think we should have party politics. I want for us to have elections every four or so years where we vote for a political party to represent all our interest in parliament. That's what want. To me calling a referendum is just politicians shirking their responsibilities. Which was Dawkins point.

That's not quite how I interpret that. I am not sure he is suggesting that only the educated elite vote. I don't think a democracy is shirking one's responsibilities.

You are now conflating all manner of disparate things, and using loaded terminology to win. It is a dishonest method of debating.

 

[DrZoidberg]

If the government doesn't cut back on immigration, it's all for nought! Brexit was more about that than any other reason.

Wait, what!?! The Brexit vote had nothing to do with immigration. Why would being in- or outside the EU have any impact on immigration? Do you know how migration works? It's not easy migrating anywhere inside the EU, from outside the EU. The free movement of people inside the EU has mostly led to increased opportunities for people, all over the EU. Granted, mostly the middle-class. But anyhoo. That's something.

Could it be that you've eaten up Nigel Farage's lies by the spoonful?

 

[whichphilosophy]

WTF are you on about? Cloak and Dagger implies this wasn't public knowledge. I'm sorry, but it was. If people gave a shit there would rightly have been an uproar. But their wasn't. Because people were, generally, fine with it. Are you aware of the concept "fourth estate"?

Also, most Brits who voted leave, did so on false premises. Most Brits thought the Brexit referendum was about immigration, and especially about not receiving more refugees. Johnson and Farage lied to them on what leaving the EU would entail. Now when that lie has been revealed, I'm not so sure most Brits still want to leave the EU.

I'm personally a big fan of representative democracy. I don't have any problems at all being represented by a well educated elite. I sure think it beats being represented by the, largely uneducated, hoi polloi. This referendum demonstrated why referendums, in general, are a bad idea.

Or as Richard Dawkins so eloquently expressed it:

How should I know [if we should leave the EU]? I don’t have a degree in economics. Or history. How dare you entrust such an important decision to ignoramuses like me?

https://richarddawkins.net/2016/06/...ay-on-our-eu-membership-and-that-includes-me/

It was about sovereignty and also about immigration (with no dramatic change on asylum policies) and our economy. Nothing has changed.

Are you suggesting voters have a degree in economics before they vote? Then there would still be those in favour and against. As the saying for every three economists there are 5 schools of thought. (I just made that phrase up but it's pretty true).

I believe a poll in the UK to ask who is pro Europe would probably show a range in the 90 per cent range but less are pro EU.

Gah... the British citizens are still subject to rule, regardless if they are under the rule of Brussels or London. They are no more free now. In what way is the average Brit any more sovereign outside, than inside the EU?

No, I think we should have party politics. I want for us to have elections every four or so years where we vote for a political party to represent all our interest in parliament. That's what want. To me calling a referendum is just politicians shirking their responsibilities. Which was Dawkins point.

That's not quite how I interpret that. I am not sure he is suggesting that only the educated elite vote. I don't think a democracy is shirking one's responsibilities.

You are now conflating all manner of disparate things, and using loaded terminology to win. It is a dishonest method of debating.

This is not about winning because if the worst thing that could happen is everyone adopts the same viewpoint, thereby reducing our ability to expand our viewpoints and observe things from a different angle. Anyway it's more about my uncertainty about his meaning. I notice on his website a picture of the EU flag next to the Union Jack. I see no harm in keeping it there after BREXIT to show EU countries are still welcome friends of the UK.

 

[whichphilosophy]

If the government doesn't cut back on immigration, it's all for nought! Brexit was more about that than any other reason.

If Teresa May is as tough as Iron Drawers (aka Thatcher), then certainly illegal immigration will be curtailed. Teresa outsmarted the EU red tape and visited Jordan to ensure the UK could boot the infamous Hook out of the country. His large family however are still here enjoying welfare. The main thing about sovereignty. Deportation can be very expensive, especially when the country of origin doesn't want them back. In such cases we can offload them onto Germany.

 

[iolo]

If the government doesn't cut back on immigration, it's all for nought! Brexit was more about that than any other reason.

Nobody knows what it was really about, but it was clearly a feast for liars throughout.

 

[iolo]

If the government doesn't cut back on immigration, it's all for nought! Brexit was more about that than any other reason.

If Teresa May is as tough as Iron Drawers (aka Thatcher), then certainly illegal immigration will be curtailed. Teresa outsmarted the EU red tape and visited Jordan to ensure the UK could boot the infamous Hook out of the country. His large family however are still here enjoying welfare. The main thing about sovereignty. Deportation can be very expensive, especially when the country of origin doesn't want them back. In such cases we can offload them onto Germany.

Gesture politics have real effects, Already Indian restaurants serve worse and worse food because of the petty fiddling makes it difficult to bring in cooks. We can expect dreadful messes in agriculture and the health service if the nutters get their way. Unlike all the chancers who have been in power since Thatcher knifed Heath, she has at least a respectable background!

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

They're just taking the piss now. Boris Johnson as Foreign Secretary? The man who:

- branded Barrack Obama a 'part-Kenyan' who harboured an 'ancestral dislike' of Britain
- composed a limerick describing Turkish president Erdogan having sex with a goat and calling him a 'wankerer'
- said: 'Despite looking a bit like Dobby the House Elf, (Vladimir Putin) is a ruthless and manipulative tyrant'
- told an audience in Tel Aviv that a trade boycott of Israeli goods was 'completely crazy' and supported by 'corduroy, jacketed, snaggletoothed, lefty academics in the UK', before a scheduled visit to Palestine, which was subsequently cancelled for "security reasons"
- described the Queen being greeted in Commonwealth countries by 'flag-waving piccaninnies', and mentioned then Prime Minister Tony Blair being greeted by 'tribal warriors who will all break out in watermelon smiles' on an upcoming visit to the Congo
- said of the Tory Party that it had 'become used to Papua New Guinea-style orgies of cannibalism and chief-killing'
- described Hillary Clinton as having 'a steely blue stare, like a sadistic nurse in a mental hospital'
- was filmed wiping out a 10-year-old Japanese schoolboy during a game of street rugby
- compared European Union efforts to build a federal super state to Hitler's plans to dominate the continent
- fabricated quotes while working as a junior reporter for The Times in the 1980s.

Among others.

And this is who's been chosen as the face of the UK's foreign relations? They really are just taking the piss now.

 

[whichphilosophy]

If Teresa May is as tough as Iron Drawers (aka Thatcher), then certainly illegal immigration will be curtailed. Teresa outsmarted the EU red tape and visited Jordan to ensure the UK could boot the infamous Hook out of the country. His large family however are still here enjoying welfare. The main thing about sovereignty. Deportation can be very expensive, especially when the country of origin doesn't want them back. In such cases we can offload them onto Germany.

Gesture politics have real effects, Already Indian restaurants serve worse and worse food because of the petty fiddling makes it difficult to bring in cooks. We can expect dreadful messes in agriculture and the health service if the nutters get their way. Unlike all the chancers who have been in power since Thatcher knifed Heath, she has at least a respectable background!

Australian and NZ imports are cheaper than Europe and we have always had agricultural issues. I'm not sure how the conservatives shall address this. There are a lot of British Indian chefs who can do Indian cuisine so we don't need any more. They are trying to cut prices to save money so some of the quality goes.
Anyway a vast amount of Brits go for a meal after a few beers, wine or a few G and T's. Then they can eat anything. This is also why KFC stays open all night.

 

[whichphilosophy]

They're just taking the piss now. Boris Johnson as Foreign Secretary? The man who:

- branded Barrack Obama a 'part-Kenyan' who harboured an 'ancestral dislike' of Britain
- composed a limerick describing Turkish president Erdogan having sex with a goat and calling him a 'wankerer'
- said: 'Despite looking a bit like Dobby the House Elf, (Vladimir Putin) is a ruthless and manipulative tyrant'
- told an audience in Tel Aviv that a trade boycott of Israeli goods was 'completely crazy' and supported by 'corduroy, jacketed, snaggletoothed, lefty academics in the UK', before a scheduled visit to Palestine, which was subsequently cancelled for "security reasons"
- described the Queen being greeted in Commonwealth countries by 'flag-waving piccaninnies', and mentioned then Prime Minister Tony Blair being greeted by 'tribal warriors who will all break out in watermelon smiles' on an upcoming visit to the Congo
- said of the Tory Party that it had 'become used to Papua New Guinea-style orgies of cannibalism and chief-killing'
- described Hillary Clinton as having 'a steely blue stare, like a sadistic nurse in a mental hospital'
- was filmed wiping out a 10-year-old Japanese schoolboy during a game of street rugby
- compared European Union efforts to build a federal super state to Hitler's plans to dominate the continent
- fabricated quotes while working as a junior reporter for The Times in the 1980s.

Among others.

And this is who's been chosen as the face of the UK's foreign relations? They really are just taking the piss now.

He's much worse when he's had a drink.
When he was elected as the Mayor of London the city with one of the highest remain votes. George Galloway did say the public elected a clown.
After what he said about Obama and Clinton, the US is the top of his list for discussions with the UK.
He seems to be both liked and disliked.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

UK leaves the EU without actually leaving it.

 

[whichphilosophy]

UK leaves the EU without actually leaving it.

Leaving EU rule to regain sovereignty but nonetheless the UK is part of Europe as a geographical classification. I believe a lot of commercial intercourse will continue.

 

[angelo]

If the government doesn't cut back on immigration, it's all for nought! Brexit was more about that than any other reason.

Wait, what!?! The Brexit vote had nothing to do with immigration. Why would being in- or outside the EU have any impact on immigration? Do you know how migration works? It's not easy migrating anywhere inside the EU, from outside the EU. The free movement of people inside the EU has mostly led to increased opportunities for people, all over the EU. Granted, mostly the middle-class. But anyhoo. That's something.

Could it be that you've eaten up Nigel Farage's lies by the spoonful?

Wait, you think the mass influx of economic migrants into Europe had nothing to do the Brexit vote?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Wait, what!?! The Brexit vote had nothing to do with immigration. Why would being in- or outside the EU have any impact on immigration? Do you know how migration works? It's not easy migrating anywhere inside the EU, from outside the EU. The free movement of people inside the EU has mostly led to increased opportunities for people, all over the EU. Granted, mostly the middle-class. But anyhoo. That's something.

Could it be that you've eaten up Nigel Farage's lies by the spoonful?

Wait, you think the mass influx of economic migrants into Europe had nothing to do the Brexit vote?

Correct. People thought that was what they were voting about. But they weren't. It was all lies.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Wait, you think the mass influx of economic migrants into Europe had nothing to do the Brexit vote?

Correct. People thought that was what they were voting about. But they weren't. It was all lies.

It was one of the factors as mentioned earlier.

 

[iolo]

Gesture politics have real effects, Already Indian restaurants serve worse and worse food because of the petty fiddling makes it difficult to bring in cooks. We can expect dreadful messes in agriculture and the health service if the nutters get their way. Unlike all the chancers who have been in power since Thatcher knifed Heath, she has at least a respectable background!

Australian and NZ imports are cheaper than Europe and we have always had agricultural issues. I'm not sure how the conservatives shall address this. There are a lot of British Indian chefs who can do Indian cuisine so we don't need any more. They are trying to cut prices to save money so some of the quality goes.
Anyway a vast amount of Brits go for a meal after a few beers, wine or a few G and T's. Then they can eat anything. This is also why KFC stays open all night.

As I understand it, Australia has a higher proportion of immigrants, racist as it is: the various countries otherwise quoted by the liars certainly have. If I buy Indian food, I expect Indian food. It's simple enough.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Australian and NZ imports are cheaper than Europe and we have always had agricultural issues. I'm not sure how the conservatives shall address this. There are a lot of British Indian chefs who can do Indian cuisine so we don't need any more. They are trying to cut prices to save money so some of the quality goes.
Anyway a vast amount of Brits go for a meal after a few beers, wine or a few G and T's. Then they can eat anything. This is also why KFC stays open all night.

As I understand it, Australia has a higher proportion of immigrants, racist as it is: the various countries otherwise quoted by the liars certainly have. If I buy Indian food, I expect Indian food. It's simple enough.

When I went to Sydney there was a huge diversity of people. It's a friendly easy going city. Most of the Taxi drivers were Iraqi, in the hotel where I stayed there were no 2 people of the same nationality on the desk. They came from China, Iran, Australia, and a few other countries where I came from.
The concern in Australia was the volume of people who recently started coming in which was more than the amount it absorbed.
A good place for Indian food used to be a series of streets near Warren Street station. This was mainly frequented by Indians in the small community. Maybe it's changed.
There are some good Indian and pretty poor ones around. I'm fortunate as I was working with a lot of Indians mainly from the South. So even in Italy we could find an excellent place with nearly all Indian customers. The prices are also generally very good. Since I don't drink alcohol (any more) the taste of food is important.