Question About Syria

[repoman]

 

[RavenSky]

I guess Trump wasn't bluffing this time. Live and learn. Anything to divert attention from Comey and Stormy scandals.

Given his absolutely unhinged early Friday morning tweet-storm about Comey, Cohen, Rodstein, Sessions, Mueller, Daniels, Clinton, Obama, and anyone/everyone h is paranoid about, this attack on Syria looks very much like a bully having a melt-down and trying to destroy whatever is within his path.

 

[RavenSky]

The problem is that Trump gave plenty of advance warning, so these attacks are largely symbolic. Assad and his Russian allies had plenty of time to move military assets away from target zones. The damage will be very limited, and Assad can pick up where he left off. He will probably dial back on the gas attacks, but he is committing plenty of atrocities by other means. And neither the Russians nor the Iranians are going to abandon him, no matter what he does.

Exactly. the bases were evacuated days ago. Contrast with Israel's surprise attack on the T4 base. They managed to kill 14 bad guys, among them Iranian Revolutionary Guards. Now that's some good shooting!

You both actually make a good point. He did warn Assad and Putin days ago that this was coming. I don't think his Twitter "threats" were accidental.

If I were the leader of any other nation, I would never ever include the U.S. in any plans for anything until this deranged clown is removed from office.

 

[RavenSky]

It is all Trump window dressing and misdirection.

While chemical weapoms are horrific, the causalities from chemical weapons don't even register against the total civilian casualties and suffering.

The strikes do nothing to help.

From what we know of Trump whatever he does is for himself. He suddenly shifts making Putin a bad guy. Something has changed in Trump's mind. It is likely an attempt to counter the Russian collusion claims. He is in deep, deep shit and the reports are he is bouncing off the walls in anger.

Does anyone really think Trump did this out of a sense of morality and concern for Syrian welfare? Does anyone really think this will do any good for the Syrian people?

He did it solely to appear strong to his base and as cover.

^^^ All of that.

He has very recently and very obviously shifted position on Putin. He certainly did not do so out of any concern for the USA or any other country, so I suspect that Putin cut ties/support with Trump first.

It isn't as if Putin actually thinks Trump is worth the price of his ill-fitted suits. Putin just wanted to block Clinton from winning the election, and he got stuck with the fawning orange idiot glued to his ass. There is no way in a gazillion years that Putin ever had any respect or use for Trump; and now likely finds him to be more of a liability than anything else.

 

[steve_bank]

After watchibg the report.

1. The Syrian air force was not touched. Suspicious at best.
2. Russian air defense systems were not active. Suspicious, Russia declared it would shoot down missiles.
3. Despite his criticism of Obama Trump clearly telegrahed what was going to happen.

My conclusion, it happened with a wink and a nod to Putin. Russia publically puts out the expected outrage.

Nothing changes.

In other news...

DACA people are still being hung out to dry
Neghborhoods in Chicago are still war zones
Our highway system continues to deteriorate,

Up next, hours of the Stormy Dnaiels story.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

The people telling us Assad just gassed his people told us Saddam had WMDs, told us Saddam was killing Kuwati babies, told us a ship was attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin...

The Neocon

Oh well I'm the type of guy who will never settle down
Where there's countries to attack you know that I'm around
I shoot 'em and I bomb 'em 'cause to me they're all the same
I occupy and drone 'em and don't even know their name
They call me a neocon, yeah a neocon
Troops roam around around around

Oh well there's Syria on my left and Iraq on my right
And Iran is the country that I'll attack tonight
On election day when the parties switch
I play for both sides there isn't any hitch
Cause I'm the neocon yeah the neocon
Troops roam around around around

Oh well troops roam from land to land
They go and I don't care
If there's oil under that sand
You know the troops will soon have a reason to go there

I'm the type of guy that likes to roam around
I'm never in one place my policies are unsound
I've never worn a uniform or carried a gun, yeah
It's the little people who can have all the fun
Yeah I'm the neocon, yeah the neocon
Troops roam around around around, let's go

Oh yeah I'm the type of guy that likes to roam around
I'm never in one place my policies are unsound
I've never worn a uniform or carried a gun, yeah
It's the little people who can have all the fun
'Cause I'm a neocon, yeah a neocon
Troops roam around around around around around
'Cause I'm a neocon, yeah a neocon
Troops roam around around around around around

 

[RavenSky]

After watchibg the report.

1. The Syrian air force was not touched. Suspicious at best.
2. Russian air defense systems were not active. Suspicious, Russia declared it would shoot down missiles.
3. Despite his criticism of Obama Trump clearly telegrahed what was going to happen.

My conclusion, it happened with a wink and a nod to Putin. Russia publically puts out the expected outrage.

Nothing changes.

In other news...

DACA people are still being hung out to dry
Neghborhoods in Chicago are still war zones
Our highway system continues to deteriorate,

Up next, hours of the Stormy Dnaiels story.

and large parts of Puerto Rico are still without electrical power, food, water, medical care, etc.

The money asswipe just spent on his publicity stunt could have substantially restored Puerto Rico ravaged by Hurricane Maria SEVEN MONTHS AGO

Or how about Flint Michigan? Feds just stopped water deliveries there, but still no one has fixed the pipes.

But lets bomb empty locations in Syria so Trump can pretend he has balls for his deplorables.

 

[bilby]

The idea that the rebels would murder and torture their own friends and family and willingly destroy one of their few remaining areas of control, handing it over as a gift to Assad.

You assume rebels are from Douma and Douma residents support them. You also assume there was actually an attack.

You assume that Syria actually exists, and that Assad is not a paid actor.






See, any fact can be dismissed as an 'assumption' if you don't provide supporting evidence for your dismissal; so this rhetorical device is valueless to any audience not composed of idiots.

 

[steve_bank]

With the tone and hesitaion in the way the question of proof was answered, I do not deimiss the idea of a false flag operation or some kind of fabrication, at least in this instance. Elements of the oppoition are no better than Assad. The Saudis want to see us remain engaed. Social media reports were cited by cable news as proof. They dropped the ball and did not push the proof issue.

Assad has already won and is secure behind Russin and Iran. It makes no sense for him to do it now, especially with Trump annoucing a pullout.

 

[barbos]

The idea that the rebels would murder and torture their own friends and family and willingly destroy one of their few remaining areas of control, handing it over as a gift to Assad.

You assume rebels are from Douma and Douma residents support them. You also assume there was actually an attack.

You assume that Syria actually exists, and that Assad is not a paid actor.

Yes, and these would be reasonable assumptions.

See, any fact can be dismissed as an 'assumption' if you don't provide supporting evidence for your dismissal; so this rhetorical device is valueless to any audience not composed of idiots.

So it's guilty until proven innocent?

 

[Trausti]

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Folks,

CNN are reporting that Russian air defense systems have brought down most of the incoming missiles. Syrian government forces undiminished.

Not Russian, Syrian air defense and it is according to Syrian government, So Assad is trolling Trump, I wonder if it's smart.

Russia also clams that the vast majority of the missiles were shot down (71 out of 103). So, it seems Putin is also trolling Trump.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201804141063558487-syria-air-defense-forces-analysis/
https://sputniknews.com/world/201804151063572721-russian-uk-embassy-challenges-syria/

 

[steve_bank]

What concerns me now is what Bolton will be feeding Trump on security issues.

 

[Copernicus]

Nobody knows how damaging the strikes were this early, but the propaganda machines on all sides were obviously not taken out by any cruise missiles or anti-missile defenses. There are some satellite photos of flattened buildings. The reality is that these strikes will accomplish no long term goal. They may not even stop the gas attacks, but there are plenty of other means available to Assad and his foreign sponsors. The US does not have the means to achieve a military victory. Its main allies are the Kurds, and Erdogan is moving decisively against them. Putin just needs his Mediterranean naval base and unhindered passage through the Dardanelles.

Meanwhile, Theresa May joined in on the attacks without the approval of Parliament, which was not in session. Cameron was blocked by Parliament during Trump's first strike, so it is far from given that MPs would have sanctioned UK participation in this operation. In fact, it looks like she is now in for some serious repercussions. I'm not sure how well this is going to reflect on Macron in France. Meanwhile, the UN Security Council has rebuffed Russian attempts to condemn the attacks, since the international community is hardly supportive of a regime that attacks its own people with banned chemical weapons. Russia, apparently, has no problem with that.

 

[repoman]

 

[Derec]

Meanwhile, Gary Johnson:

 

[Philos]

Folks,

I've watched a fair bit of UNSC in session. Chilling stuff and many long faces. The hatred from the Russians towards the US and their lapdogs is palpably obvious. The Chinese listened to the French apologetics and then said "F*** O**" in formal language.

Maybe we are approaching the time when the US should no longer have permanent membership at the UN. Today reminds me of the League of Nations in the run up to WW2.

A.

PS - A thought. Where was all the US moralising when they were supporting chemical Saddam against the Iranians?

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Folks,

I've watched a fair bit of UNSC in session. Chilling stuff and many long faces. The hatred from the Russians towards the US and their lapdogs is palpably obvious. The Chinese listened to the French apologetics and then said "F*** O**" in formal language.

Maybe we are approaching the time when the US should no longer have permanent membership at the UN. Today reminds me of the League of Nations in the run up to WW2.

The vote in the UN Security Council: 3 votes in favor of the Russian-sponsored resolution (Russia, China and Bolivia), 8 votes against it, and 4 abstentions. Even if the US didn't have veto power, the resolution would not have passed. Even if only Russia and China had veto power, there was a clear majority against it, so it would not have passed.

 

[barbos]

Folks,

I've watched a fair bit of UNSC in session. Chilling stuff and many long faces. The hatred from the Russians towards the US and their lapdogs is palpably obvious. The Chinese listened to the French apologetics and then said "F*** O**" in formal language.

Maybe we are approaching the time when the US should no longer have permanent membership at the UN. Today reminds me of the League of Nations in the run up to WW2.

The vote in the UN Security Council: 3 votes in favor of the Russian-sponsored resolution (Russia, China and Bolivia), 8 votes against it, and 4 abstentions. Even if the US didn't have veto power, the resolution would not have passed. Even if only Russia and China had veto power, there was a clear majority against it, so it would not have passed.

What is a significance of that anyway? Yes, Russia is severely outnumbered in terms of its allies, that's why they are desperately trying to keep the ones that are still left. Yes, these are mostly low quality allies which are US "enemies", But I remember some time ago US was trying to get Israel related votes when nobody wanted to align with them, so they bought a bunch of pacific ocean island countries votes. Russia and China are doing that too occasionally

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Folks,

I've watched a fair bit of UNSC in session. Chilling stuff and many long faces. The hatred from the Russians towards the US and their lapdogs is palpably obvious. The Chinese listened to the French apologetics and then said "F*** O**" in formal language.

Maybe we are approaching the time when the US should no longer have permanent membership at the UN. Today reminds me of the League of Nations in the run up to WW2.

The vote in the UN Security Council: 3 votes in favor of the Russian-sponsored resolution (Russia, China and Bolivia), 8 votes against it, and 4 abstentions. Even if the US didn't have veto power, the resolution would not have passed. Even if only Russia and China had veto power, there was a clear majority against it, so it would not have passed.

What is a significance of that anyway?

It's a reply to Philos's post, and is meant to be significant in that context. My point was that even if the US had no veto power, resolutions like this would likely be blocked by the UNSC (Philos talked about "permanent membership at the UN", but I think he was talking about the UNSC.