RACISM SOLVED on IIDB! "This whole business about whether someone had ancestors who were a slave or slaveholder is just ridiculous. It means nothing."

[Elixir]

your pro slaving nonsense

Are you black?
Best be checking people’s posting histories before you start cramming them into your pre-fab pigeonholes, calling them racist and whatnot.

 

[Gospel]

I wonder if any of you would consider a statue that represents your brothers, fathers, daughters, or siblings being hanged, raped, murdered, and stripped of their names, languages, and identities as art or something that must be preserved for its historical significance because there's supposedly no other way to remember your loved ones & what happened to them but by the artful hands of those who wronged them.

 

[Gospel]

We are the history, damn it. Visit the National Museum of African American History and Culture. Go to the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute. We're right here, ready to educate you about what happened to us—your fellow Americans. You don't need Confederate statues to learn about our history. And by our history I do mean yours and mine.

 

[Politesse]

Southern "culture", while subscribing to an ideology that justified slavery, goes beyond that, bring us priceless benefits like cornbread and barbeque.

I wager that both cornbread and barbecue originated from Native Americans who were tragically genocided. Southern culture does not solely belong to ignorant individuals stuck in a 19th-century time capsule.

The truth is that both are examples of the benefits of cultural fusion, arising from communities where indigenous and immigrant communities were living side by side for decades. There's a little bit of Anahuac/Turtle Island, a little bit of Europe, and a little bit of West Africa in every marinade. We would be better off if we could learn to respect and celebrate that plurality instead of hiding it.

I'm fine with embracing and honor cultural fusions, but it's also important to address historical elements that don't deserve celebration. Specifically, the Confederacy that represents a painful and divisive chapter in American history, rooted in the defense of slavery and racial oppression. Instead of celebrating it, we should critically examine and learn from it, ensuring that we do not glorify a past that sought to divide and subjugate.

They're using the guise of historical significance to justify their statues, much like they used the Bible to justify the slavery upon which their statues were built.

I did not mean to disagree with your point. The fucking Confederacy certainly deserves no credit for Southern and Caribbean cuisine, which flourished in blended, not segregated, communities.

 

[Gospel]

Sorry, I got caught up in my emotions about the topic. I wasn't trying to accuse anyone of holding any particular position. I just wanted to share my perspective.

 

[Elixir]

Sorry, I got caught up in my emotions about the topic. I wasn't trying to accuse anyone of holding any particular position. I just wanted to share my perspective.

That’s more than understandable.
I certainly don’t want to elevate leftover traitor junk over the concerns or feelings of those worst effected by American slavery.

I do kinda resent being called a racist by a newbie, but they’ll learn if they stick around.

 

[thebeave]

your pro slaving nonsense

Are you black?
Best be checking people’s posting histories before you start cramming them into your pre-fab pigeonholes, calling them racist and whatnot.

Woah. I had no idea you were pro slaving. Dang, that's rough, man. I got called a white supremecist here. Two peas in a pod. I wonder if we'll get ostracized from this forum.

 

[Politesse]

Sorry, I got caught up in my emotions about the topic. I wasn't trying to accuse anyone of holding any particular position. I just wanted to share my perspective.

More than fair. What you're being asked to accept is qrotesque.

 

[Elixir]

your pro slaving nonsense

Are you black?
Best be checking people’s posting histories before you start cramming them into your pre-fab pigeonholes, calling them racist and whatnot.

Woah. I had no idea you were pro slaving. Dang, that's rough, man. I got called a white supremecist here. Two peas in a pod. I wonder if we'll get ostracized from this forum.

You have slaves too??
Actually people here treat me pretty good in general. ‘Specially considering that they’re all commie lib’ruls taking shit from a pro-slaver. They’re runnin’ down us hardworking skeet shootin’ “pro slavers”.
Fortunately we gots some people defending me, pointiing out how both sides are the same.

 

[Gospel]

they are more than welcome to build their own cotton picking museums.

Be careful what you wish for!

I didn't wish for a damn thing. Starting your own business is a significant part of American culture. Entrepreneurship has long been celebrated as a key aspect of the American Dream, giving importance to the values of individualism, innovation, and economic opportunity. I presume the reason why such a place doesn't already exist is because there isn't a market for it.

You seemed sorta accepting of the idea of putting them in a museum earlier this morning in post #28, and now you seem not in favor of it, just a few hours later. I'm not sure what happened between then and now. Or did I miss something?

My opinion expressed in post #28 remains consistent and has not been contradicted by any of my subsequent posts. I believe you are overlooking the context of my other posts.

 

[thebeave]

your pro slaving nonsense

Are you black?
Best be checking people’s posting histories before you start cramming them into your pre-fab pigeonholes, calling them racist and whatnot.

Woah. I had no idea you were pro slaving. Dang, that's rough, man. I got called a white supremecist here. Two peas in a pod. I wonder if we'll get ostracized from this forum.

You have slaves too??
Actually people here treat me pretty good in general. ‘Specially considering that they’re all commie lib’ruls taking shit from a pro-slaver. They’re runnin’ down us hardworking skeet shootin’ “pro slavers”.
Fortunately we gots some people defending me, pointiing out how both sides are the same.

Nah...they all ran away. Ya turn your back for a second and whooooosh....

 

[Elixir]

your pro slaving nonsense

Are you black?
Best be checking people’s posting histories before you start cramming them into your pre-fab pigeonholes, calling them racist and whatnot.

Woah. I had no idea you were pro slaving. Dang, that's rough, man. I got called a white supremecist here. Two peas in a pod. I wonder if we'll get ostracized from this forum.

You have slaves too??
Actually people here treat me pretty good in general. ‘Specially considering that they’re all commie lib’ruls taking shit from a pro-slaver. They’re runnin’ down us hardworking skeet shootin’ “pro slavers”.
Fortunately we gots some people defending me, pointiing out how both sides are the same.

Nah...they all ran away. Ya turn your back for a second and whooooosh....

Why I don’t have Huskies!
Goldens will anything for you. Unless they won’t, in which case they’ll make you laugh.

 

[Gospel]

So yawl just gonna make insensitive jokes about slaves huh. We cool, we cool.

 

[ZiprHead]

while social control is part of that ideology and the religion has been used to justify atrocities, religion goes beyond that

Southern "culture", while subscribing to an ideology that justified slavery, goes beyond that, bring us priceless benefits like cornbread and barbeque.
Sheesh.
Let me excuse religion (while recognizing the robust collectors' market for Templar artifacts) for a moment, since you seem to be an apologist for it.

The act of creating, commemorating and idolizing confederate traitors should not be forgotten. Let's put a stop to it, and not forget what a robust effort that has been since the slave states lost their war. Take all those statues out of public view, and place them where documentation of their evil can be placed beside them. Or even just document the history of those monuments - who made them, who commissioned them, where they stood and why - with photos, models, whatever, and THEN destroy them if you must.
@Gospel is afaik the only black person participating in this discussion, and I gotta defer to his inclinations. But it seems to me that documentation would be most powerful using the actual artifacts.

Southern culture that created southern cornbread and bbq is black culture who invented and perfected both. How many confed flags do you see blacks proudly flying in the south? The confed existed for 4 years. The south since the war existed for 160 years. The confed and all its symbols have no reference to southern culture other than pro slavery. That you equate the two is strong evidence that you are either a pro slaver or dangerously ignorant of history.

Since you are new here, I suggest you get to know people first before throwing around such accusations. Elixir is far from a confederate supporter. Rereading what you are responding to might be helpful too.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

 

[Elixir]

Elixir is far from a confederate supporter.

Stanley would figure that out pretty quickly, I think.

 

[Gospel]

while social control is part of that ideology and the religion has been used to justify atrocities, religion goes beyond that

Southern "culture", while subscribing to an ideology that justified slavery, goes beyond that, bring us priceless benefits like cornbread and barbeque.
Sheesh.
Let me excuse religion (while recognizing the robust collectors' market for Templar artifacts) for a moment, since you seem to be an apologist for it.

The act of creating, commemorating and idolizing confederate traitors should not be forgotten. Let's put a stop to it, and not forget what a robust effort that has been since the slave states lost their war. Take all those statues out of public view, and place them where documentation of their evil can be placed beside them. Or even just document the history of those monuments - who made them, who commissioned them, where they stood and why - with photos, models, whatever, and THEN destroy them if you must.
@Gospel is afaik the only black person participating in this discussion, and I gotta defer to his inclinations. But it seems to me that documentation would be most powerful using the actual artifacts.

Southern culture that created southern cornbread and bbq is black culture who invented and perfected both. How many confed flags do you see blacks proudly flying in the south? The confed existed for 4 years. The south since the war existed for 160 years. The confed and all its symbols have no reference to southern culture other than pro slavery. That you equate the two is strong evidence that you are either a pro slaver or dangerously ignorant of history.

Since you are new here, I suggest you get to know people first before throwing around such accusations. Elixir is far from a confederate supporter. Rereading what you are responding to might be helpful too.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

There is more than one option: "pro-slavery" or "dangerously ignorant." I understand why Stanley presented these options, and I believe Elixir fits the latter on this particular subject. The reason I say this is that there is nothing to be gained from the statues themselves that hasn't already been documented in sources like the Federalist Papers, the Civil War Trust, official reports, speeches, and congressional records from the Civil War era If you want to know the extent of how fucked up they were. The sole purpose of their statues is to celebrate those individuals, and IMO they ought be destroyed because If they are anything other than symbols that glorify slavery, they are redundant. If the statues are going to be kept, the most reasonable approach IMO is in post #28, which I stand by and have not contradicted.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

that was the type of monument they were hired to make.

…and a god that looks like an old bearded man was what Michaelangelo was hired to depict. On behalf of an outfit that has spilled more blood than Robert E Lee could ever have dreamed of.
Art is art, politics is politics and religion is religion.

But the statue of Lee is design precisely to promote racism and the spilling of blood to preserve slavery. The monuments were a political act. So, if politics cannot be art, then the monuments cannot be art.

But the statue of Lee is design precisely to promote racism and the spilling of blood to preserve slavery.

Yes, and if preserved in a museum, that fact can be illuminated along with the statue.
But you’ll never see the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel presented as a promotional symbol of a genocidal organization reft with child abuse.
WHICH IT IS.

No it isn't. The ceiling was not painted to promote those things and the religion is not inherently about that. But the Confederacy was inherently created to and was almost entirely about preserving slavery and killing US soldiers to do so. That is why attempts to glorify and praise it have no place except in a holocaust style museum about the white supremacy that continued to grip the south and terrorize black people well into the late 20th century (and still does) .

You seemed to have checked out of the actual conversation. Nobody here is saying the museum is to glorify the people behind the statues.

Which statues? Ones put up in the late 19th century or the ones put up as a direct response to the Civil Rights movement?

I for one, don't know all THAT much about the civil war or the confederacy, but I would pay money to go to a museum and see who these people were, what they did, and what they believed.

While there is always more that can be learned in history, are you seriously expecting us to believe you don't know shit about the Civil War or 40 or so year run up to it?

I'd certainly not go to praise them, though maybe a few knuckleheads a year would.

A few? You truly are isolated over there in California.

And with a little luck, maybe some of them would walk out rethinking their bigotted positions.

Bigoted? Why should they? The museum is about the dudes that pushed for insurrection in the first place.

 

[marc]

Spoiler: Unimportant aside joke on confederate monuments..

Also, if they are so worried about 'erasing history', fine, we can replace every statue of Lee with one of Grant, and do the same with other generals. Replace statues, schools named for Davis with Lincoln, and put up a few memorials to Union soldiers lost. Then we won't be erasing history right?

 

[Politesse]

A few? You truly are isolated over there in California.

Oh, we have our own confederate loonies. You should have seen how many of them came out of the woodworks when we started taking statues down here.

And this situation....

 

[RVonse]

But the Confederacy was inherently created to and was almost entirely about preserving slavery and killing US soldiers to do so.

I don't agree. In the first place, the civil war was not really a civil war it was a war against succession from the union for economic tariff reasons. Lincoln was ambivalent about slavery other than the sympathy that it helped his cause. If George Bush would have been president at that time, he would have told us "we were spreading democracy!" But Lincoln used the slavery card instead to spread his cause. Since he knew black slavery was going out of style anyway. This is more than obvious when you consider every other country (at the time) having slavery got rid of the practice even though they had no war of succession like the US did. Furthermore Lincoln wanted to ship all the black southern slaves back to Africa after the civil war and would have done so had he not been assassinated. That does not sound like someone coddling black people to me. Should we tear down or put Lincolns statue in a museum as well?

There were a lot of Americans killed during this conflict. It just was not really about slavery. It was about money.