Raise your son to steal cars, seek $5 million in ghetto lottery

[laughing dog]

Car getting stolen... and he shoots at the thief to... umm... kill him... for stealing a car. There is no other reason to use force at that point. Doubtful the thief jumps out and flees due to bullets being fired.

Yeah, car theft is not justified. Killing a man stealing your car, not really justifiable either. Not certain how liable Atlanta is for the shooting either. If the guy wasn't even on the clock, he is a private citizen. This seems like an attempt by lawyers to get a payout.

The family is probably grieving, though it must be hard for them to reconcile their kid being shot... while committing a serious crime... but then again, people are pretty good at obfuscating things.

Hey, Derec, notice how no issue of race was raised in my post... all the while being critical of those involved? Incredible, isn't it.

A legitimate question is whether the shooter followed Atlanta police procedure in this instance.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Yeah, car theft is not justified. Killing a man stealing your car, not really justifiable either. Not certain how liable Atlanta is for the shooting either. If the guy wasn't even on the clock, he is a private citizen. This seems like an attempt by lawyers to get a payout.

Well, the city issued him his firearm and allowed him to carry it while off duty, with the expectation that having it allows him to act identically to an on-duty cop in the event that he comes across a crime. With that being the case, it shouldn't matter either way since once a crime occurred, he was then acting as a cop and not as a private citizen.

 

[Wiploc]

Car getting stolen... and he shoots at the thief to... umm... kill him... for stealing a car. There is no other reason to use force at that point.

I believe you've overstated your case. He wanted his car back; he didn't want the guy to continue stealing the car. That seems to be a possible motive other than a desire to kill.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Car getting stolen... and he shoots at the thief to... umm... kill him... for stealing a car. There is no other reason to use force at that point.

I believe you've overstated your case. He wanted his car back; he didn't want the guy to continue stealing the car. That seems to be a possible motive other than a desire to kill.

How many people are going to apply the brakes when they hear gunfire?

- - - Updated - - -

Car getting stolen... and he shoots at the thief to... umm... kill him... for stealing a car. There is no other reason to use force at that point. Doubtful the thief jumps out and flees due to bullets being fired.

Yeah, car theft is not justified. Killing a man stealing your car, not really justifiable either. Not certain how liable Atlanta is for the shooting either. If the guy wasn't even on the clock, he is a private citizen. This seems like an attempt by lawyers to get a payout.

The family is probably grieving, though it must be hard for them to reconcile their kid being shot... while committing a serious crime... but then again, people are pretty good at obfuscating things.

Hey, Derec, notice how no issue of race was raised in my post... all the while being critical of those involved? Incredible, isn't it.

A legitimate question is whether the shooter followed Atlanta police procedure in this instance.

I sure heck hope not!

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, car theft is not justified. Killing a man stealing your car, not really justifiable either. Not certain how liable Atlanta is for the shooting either. If the guy wasn't even on the clock, he is a private citizen. This seems like an attempt by lawyers to get a payout.

Well, the city issued him his firearm and allowed him to carry it while off duty, with the expectation that having it allows him to act identically to an on-duty cop in the event that he comes across a crime. With that being the case, it shouldn't matter either way since once a crime occurred, he was then acting as a cop and not as a private citizen.

A lot of certainty in those opinions there.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Car getting stolen... and he shoots at the thief to... umm... kill him... for stealing a car. There is no other reason to use force at that point. Doubtful the thief jumps out and flees due to bullets being fired.

Yeah, car theft is not justified. Killing a man stealing your car, not really justifiable either. Not certain how liable Atlanta is for the shooting either. If the guy wasn't even on the clock, he is a private citizen.

If this happened within the jurisdiction where this individual is employed, it's extremely unlikely that he had "private citizen" status. Virtually all law enforcement have 24/7 authority AND responsibility within their jurisdiction.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

A lot of certainty in those opinions there.

Yes. That is due to my being certain in my opinions. If the city lets garbage men drive their trucks home at night and one of them runs a guy over while he's stopping off to pick up some milk, then the city is liable because their equipment was involved in the accident even though the employee driving it was off duty when it happened. If they don't like that, then don't let their employees drive the trucks while off work.

Similarly, city owned equipment (the gun) was used to shoot this guy because the city allowed its employee to take that equipment home with him while off duty. If they'd required him to lock it at the police station, that wouldn't have happened.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Car getting stolen... and he shoots at the thief to... umm... kill him... for stealing a car. There is no other reason to use force at that point. Doubtful the thief jumps out and flees due to bullets being fired.

Yeah, car theft is not justified. Killing a man stealing your car, not really justifiable either. Not certain how liable Atlanta is for the shooting either. If the guy wasn't even on the clock, he is a private citizen.

If this happened within the jurisdiction where this individual is employed, it's extremely unlikely that he had "private citizen" status. Virtually all law enforcement have 24/7 authority AND responsibility within their jurisdiction.

Well, that'd put the city on the hook then, presuming jurisdiction and what not.

 

[laughing dog]

One more reason to think that bias is driving the OP - there is absolutely no indication that this family raised their son to steal cars, so what prompted that in the OP title? Hmmmm.

 

[Gun Nut]

Why is it ok to shoot and kill unarmed suspects?

D-apostrophe-ettrick was armed with a car. Remember, he drove over his victim's foot. Whether the shooting was justified once the danger passed will be determined I guess, but even if the cop gets charged with something, 5 million is excessive. D' would have to steal a lot of cars to even come close to making that much in his lifetime, and if he wasn't shot he'd have been spending the next few years of his life in state prison for grand theft auto and aggravated assault where he would not be making any money at all.

We don't know if Jimmy A. was armed or not. The family claims he wasn't, but you can't trust the family. Remember that guy whose family claimed that his ankle holster was for a book and not a gun? And besides, Jimmy was being served a federal warrant for armed robbery. He was presumed armed and dangerous.
In any case, the officer eventually found him in a closet. That is extremely close quarters. That means the cop was from the beginning within a distance where the suspect could have used his arms to attack the cop or go for his gun. If Jimmy went for the officer's gun when he opened the closet door, the shooting was very much justified even if Jimmy was unarmed.

Once the danger has passed, a shooting is not justified, by law... nor is any kind of deadly force.
I do like what you said about, "being armed with a car"... very true. If there was any reasonable belief that the thief was going to hurt ANYONE with the car, then deadly force may have been justified.
If the state is gong to award the family with 5M for wrongful death (how it is related to the state when the cop was off duty is beyond me, though) they should also sue the family for 6M for unleashing a criminal into society.... how about a little liability there?

- - - Updated - - -

One more reason to think that bias is driving the OP - there is absolutely no indication that this family raised their son to steal cars, so what prompted that in the OP title? Hmmmm.

so what "creates criminals", then? Magic? Is criminal mindedness an inevitability in some people? Is it genetic?

 

[Gun Nut]

Yeah, car theft is not justified. Killing a man stealing your car, not really justifiable either. Not certain how liable Atlanta is for the shooting either. If the guy wasn't even on the clock, he is a private citizen. This seems like an attempt by lawyers to get a payout.

Well, the city issued him his firearm and allowed him to carry it while off duty, with the expectation that having it allows him to act identically to an on-duty cop in the event that he comes across a crime. With that being the case, it shouldn't matter either way since once a crime occurred, he was then acting as a cop and not as a private citizen.

Are you sure about that? That is not the normal process.. Most security professionals procure and own their own gun... subsidized by the employer, but still the personal responsibility of the employee. There are guidelines and limitations on caliber and type of ammo, but the firearm does not belong to the employer.
"Hand in your gun and badge" is something you only see in the movies.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

One more reason to think that bias is driving the OP - there is absolutely no indication that this family raised their son to steal cars, so what prompted that in the OP title? Hmmmm.

so what "creates criminals", then? Magic? Is criminal mindedness an inevitability in some people? Is it genetic?

Interesting leap you did there.

ld: No indication the family raised the kid to be a car thief.
gun nut: You sayin' criminal behavior is genetic?!

*sigh*

 

[laughing dog]

so what "creates criminals", then? Magic? Is criminal mindedness an inevitability in some people? Is it genetic?

I don't know. And since there is no indication at this time that this family RAISED their son to steal cars, there is no reason to speculate that they did.

 

[Toni]

so what "creates criminals", then? Magic? Is criminal mindedness an inevitability in some people? Is it genetic?

I don't know. And since there is no indication at this time that this family RAISED their son to steal cars, there is no reason to speculate that they did.

Do families raise their kids to be bigots and racists or is it genetic? Is there any correlation with propensity to love guns?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Yeah, car theft is not justified. Killing a man stealing your car, not really justifiable either. Not certain how liable Atlanta is for the shooting either. If the guy wasn't even on the clock, he is a private citizen. This seems like an attempt by lawyers to get a payout.

Well, the city issued him his firearm and allowed him to carry it while off duty, with the expectation that having it allows him to act identically to an on-duty cop in the event that he comes across a crime. With that being the case, it shouldn't matter either way since once a crime occurred, he was then acting as a cop and not as a private citizen.

Are you sure about that? That is not the normal process.. Most security professionals procure and own their own gun... subsidized by the employer, but still the personal responsibility of the employee. There are guidelines and limitations on caliber and type of ammo, but the firearm does not belong to the employer.
"Hand in your gun and badge" is something you only see in the movies.

Yes. I'm sure about that. Atlanta police use city issued guns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Police_Department

There's even been a bunch of stuff about their needing to repay the city for lost equipment if their guns are stolen:

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/apd-officers-to-face-steep-fines-suspension-if-their-city-issued-guns-are-stolen/874291796

Maybe a Sheriff's department in a town with 20 people wouldn't have the cash to arm its cops and they'd need to bring their own weapons in, but Atlanta is an actual city.

 

[Gun Nut]

so what "creates criminals", then? Magic? Is criminal mindedness an inevitability in some people? Is it genetic?

I don't know. And since there is no indication at this time that this family RAISED their son to steal cars, there is no reason to speculate that they did.

Do families raise their kids to be bigots and racists or is it genetic? Is there any correlation with propensity to love guns?

Yes. Families do raise their kids to either be racist or not.
Yes. Families do raise their kids to respect guns, fear them, be irresponsible, or indifferent.

 

[Gun Nut]

so what "creates criminals", then? Magic? Is criminal mindedness an inevitability in some people? Is it genetic?

I don't know. And since there is no indication at this time that this family RAISED their son to steal cars, there is no reason to speculate that they did.

What is the default position? That people are raised to hold a high moral standard? Where does that happen? I'd like to know that there is some evidence... like supporting their child's studies by helping with homework.. parent-teacher participation... any evidence of that?
I bet a can prove that my family raised all of their kids to respect the law and to understand that criminality is unacceptable... there are witnesses to the corrections made and lessons taught to the young ones.

 

[Toni]

so what "creates criminals", then? Magic? Is criminal mindedness an inevitability in some people? Is it genetic?

I don't know. And since there is no indication at this time that this family RAISED their son to steal cars, there is no reason to speculate that they did.

What is the default position? That people are raised to hold a high moral standard? Where does that happen? I'd like to know that there is some evidence... like supporting their child's studies by helping with homework.. parent-teacher participation... any evidence of that?
I bet a can prove that my family raised all of their kids to respect the law and to understand that criminality is unacceptable... there are witnesses to the corrections made and lessons taught to the young ones.

So you're saying that your corrections came to the attention of law enforcement/child protection services and you needed to call witnesses on your behalf?

That doesn't sound good at all...

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

One more reason to think that bias is driving the OP

We already have 28,753 reasons to think that, i.e. his post total.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Yeah, car theft is not justified. Killing a man stealing your car, not really justifiable either. Not certain how liable Atlanta is for the shooting either. If the guy wasn't even on the clock, he is a private citizen. This seems like an attempt by lawyers to get a payout.

Well, the city issued him his firearm and allowed him to carry it while off duty, with the expectation that having it allows him to act identically to an on-duty cop in the event that he comes across a crime. With that being the case, it shouldn't matter either way since once a crime occurred, he was then acting as a cop and not as a private citizen.

Are you sure about that? That is not the normal process.. Most security professionals procure and own their own gun... subsidized by the employer, but still the personal responsibility of the employee. There are guidelines and limitations on caliber and type of ammo, but the firearm does not belong to the employer.
"Hand in your gun and badge" is something you only see in the movies.

That's correct for many PDs. And ownership of the weapon is irrelevant, so the city is still on the hook.

 

[laughing dog]

so what "creates criminals", then? Magic? Is criminal mindedness an inevitability in some people? Is it genetic?

I don't know. And since there is no indication at this time that this family RAISED their son to steal cars, there is no reason to speculate that they did.

What is the default position? That people are raised to hold a high moral standard? Where does that happen? I'd like to know that there is some evidence... like supporting their child's studies by helping with homework.. parent-teacher participation... any evidence of that?

The default position one does not make claims of fact or causation without actual evidence.

I bet a can prove that my family raised all of their kids to respect the law and to understand that criminality is unacceptable... there are witnesses to the corrections made and lessons taught to the young ones.

I find it hard to believe that no one has ever crossed against the light or broken the speed limit or any one of the myriad of small violations against the law, but even if that is true, so what?

I know families where disobeying the law was unacceptable and one of the children ended up as a drug addict or committed some other types of crime.

It is ridiculous to conclude anything about someone's upbringing by a single act.

I know plenty of families that taught that breaking the law was unacceptable but one (or more) of their children ended up as a drug addict or committing other types