Ramming ACA down our throats

[jonatha]

The ACA is the perfect Christian approach to health care. Just have faith in this bill, whatever the fuck is in it. For faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1. Let's vote.

You presumably meant AHCA, the ACA's possible replacement.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If the Washington Post is right, this is about the same shit show we had in the House.

The interesting thing is that - if the leaks are true - neither the House nor the Senate bills are a "repeal" of Obamacare. They water down parts of it, and gut (but not completely eliminate) others, but they don't wholesale repeal the ACA as promised, nor do they replace it either.

The real "secret" of this legislation is that it does neither of the things that the GOP has pledged to do for the last 8 years..."repeal and replace."

As I pondered before, there is little to change. It is the right-wing plan. So change "subsidy" to "tax credit", water down patient protections and there, brand new Republican bill. Doesn't McConnell's bill even keep the exchanges?

However, right-wingers will support whatever Trump and the AM Radio dial tells them to.

 

[jonatha]

The interesting thing is that - if the leaks are true - neither the House nor the Senate bills are a "repeal" of Obamacare. They water down parts of it, and gut (but not completely eliminate) others, but they don't wholesale repeal the ACA as promised, nor do they replace it either.

The real "secret" of this legislation is that it does neither of the things that the GOP has pledged to do for the last 8 years..."repeal and replace."

As I pondered before, there is little to change. It is the right-wing plan. So change "subsidy" to "tax credit", water down patient protections and there, brand new Republican bill. Doesn't McConnell's bill even keep the exchanges?

However, right-wingers will support whatever Trump and the AM Radio dial tells them to.

Changing a subsidy to a tax credit is only equivalent if the tax credit is refundable, and will only be as helpful if it can be claimed before filing (as the Earned Income Credit used to be but is no longer).

The main thing they're going to do is eliminate the individual (and perhaps the employer) mandates, either legislatively or through administrative action, which will in turn pretty much kill the exchanges (and perhaps the individual market entirely).

 

[starwater]

The Senate released their version today.

It's hard to tell, until an analysis is done on what if anything major is different from the House bill.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

As I pondered before, there is little to change. It is the right-wing plan. So change "subsidy" to "tax credit", water down patient protections and there, brand new Republican bill. Doesn't McConnell's bill even keep the exchanges?

However, right-wingers will support whatever Trump and the AM Radio dial tells them to.

Changing a subsidy to a tax credit is only equivalent if the tax credit is refundable, and will only be as helpful if it can be claimed before filing (as the Earned Income Credit used to be but is no longer).

My point was more that they'd give it another label but it would functionally be the same thing.

The main thing they're going to do is eliminate the individual (and perhaps the employer) mandates, either legislatively or through administrative action, which will in turn pretty much kill the exchanges (and perhaps the individual market entirely).

It is possible it won't kill it as they will allow insurance companies to charge a premium to people that skipped having coverage.

I think the bigger issue is that they are allowing the system to fragment nationally, with many states potentially requiring much different insurance requirements. This will be a pain the in ass to insurance companies. Insurance companies will like that they can provide policies without providing actually coverage, but they probably won't like the fragmentation and the lack of unity. And the people won't like that they can't afford insurance again.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The Senate released their version today.

It's hard to tell, until an analysis is done on what if anything major is different from the House bill.

This is the biggest part of the bill, relative to the House bill.

The Senate also backs away from some last minute House concessions to conservatives that would have allowed states to opt out of several protections for those with pre-existing conditions, but insurers would not be allowed to charge higher premiums to those with pre-existing conditions.

I'm curious as to the extent of the State waivers allowed in the Senate bill and the House bill. This article only seems to indicate it applies to pre-existing patients.

Meanwhile:

The bill would also aim to shore up the existing Obamacare market by allocating funds for the cost-sharing subsidies until 2019. This will placate insurers, who were distraught by Trump's refusal to commit to continue making these payments, leading many carriers to hike rates or drop out of the exchanges for 2018.

Trump and Rubio and the Republicans are responsible for the Insurance companies raising rates and dropping out, yet they want the Democrats to take the blame.

 

[ElectEngr]

Aren't protons and electrons primarily responsible for our health problems? Shouldn't they foot the bill?

We need an electromagnetic tax.

This came to mind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQZRJViiQno

Later,
ElectEngr

 

[starwater]

So the Turkey the Senate put out is just a huge tax cut for the wealthy. They have no intentions of fixing health care. The GOP still thinks healthcare should not be an entitlement. If you don't work then no healthcare for you!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So the Turkey the Senate put out is just a huge tax cut for the wealthy. They have no intentions of fixing health care. The GOP still thinks healthcare should not be an entitlement. If you don't work then no healthcare for you!

Even if you do work but for the wrong employer.

Both of us have been self employed this entire decade.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So the Turkey the Senate put out is just a huge tax cut for the wealthy. They have no intentions of fixing health care. The GOP still thinks healthcare should not be an entitlement. If you don't work then no healthcare for you!

If you don't work, are self-employed, work for a company that employs fewer than X employees, etc...

 

[Treedbear]

...
Changing a subsidy to a tax credit is only equivalent if the tax credit is refundable, and will only be as helpful if it can be claimed before filing (as the Earned Income Credit used to be but is no longer). ...

It seems to me that for a lot of people eligible for a large subsidy (say $6K/yr) based on their age, location, and AGI level under the ACA it will be impossible to have a big enough tax credit to equal what they get now. Even 100% would only amount to about half of that if the tax credit is based on income after deductions for the standard deduction and exempt. And how would it work at all if it doesn't take age and location into account?

 

[RavenSky]

The ACA is the perfect Christian approach to health care. Just have faith in this bill, whatever the fuck is in it. For faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1. Let's vote.

ACA is "ObamaCare"

AHCA is "Trumpcare"

which are you referring to?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So the Turkey the Senate put out is just a huge tax cut for the wealthy. They have no intentions of fixing health care. The GOP still thinks healthcare should not be an entitlement. If you don't work then no healthcare for you!

If you don't work, are self-employed, work for a company that employs fewer than X employees, etc...

I got to wondering, hitting the self-employed might actually be an objective. Gotta work for the man, can't do it on your own.

 

[starwater]

Are there no work houses? Are there no jails? Says the Ebenezer Scrooge - GOP

Yes working for the man to make them more wealthy. So a few rep senators are making noises about not voting for it. It may just be grandstanding. The GOP wants to push their Death Care Bill through. It probably won't be this week. But then they will have the recess to drum up support.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If you don't work, are self-employed, work for a company that employs fewer than X employees, etc...

I got to wondering, hitting the self-employed might actually be an objective. Gotta work for the man, can't do it on your own.

Huh? Self-employed contractors is one of the better corporate scams out there. Get people to work for you, but provide nothing to them... even skimping out of paying any of their payroll tax. I can't see corporate America wanting to get rid of that ridiculous loophole.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The ACA is the perfect Christian approach to health care. Just have faith in this bill, whatever the fuck is in it. For faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1. Let's vote.

ACA is "ObamaCare"

AHCA is "Trumpcare"

which are you referring to?

Lots of people I work with don't know that Obamacare and the ACA are the same thing. I had a person yesterday bemoaning Obamacare and praising the ACA. Ideology can be blinding.

 

[Elixir]

ACA is "ObamaCare"

AHCA is "Trumpcare"

which are you referring to?

Lots of people I work with don't know that Obamacare and the ACA are the same thing. I had a person yesterday bemoaning Obamacare and praising the ACA. Ideology can be blinding.

That's why the republitards NEVER talk about the Affordable Care Act.
It's a stunning representation of the idiocy to which they appeal.

 

[Treedbear]

So the Turkey the Senate put out is just a huge tax cut for the wealthy. They have no intentions of fixing health care. The GOP still thinks healthcare should not be an entitlement. If you don't work then no healthcare for you!

Facing defections, Senate GOP leaders delay health care vote

In a bruising setback, Senate Republican leaders shelved a vote on their prized health care bill Tuesday until at least next month, forced to retreat by a GOP rebellion that left them lacking enough votes to even begin debate.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Public approval of the Senate bill is terribly low. McConnell must be thinking a couple things:

1) Why the fuck do people keep electing us if they don't support this bill!?
2) Goodbye tax reform

 

[Opoponax]

Public approval of the Senate bill is terribly low. McConnell must be thinking a couple things:

1) Why the fuck do people keep electing us if they don't support this bill!?
2) Goodbye tax reform

People who hadn't painted themselves into a corner would look at this and understand that it's an opportunity to fix what's wrong with Obamacare, rename it, and then take credit for the whole thing, resulting in easy wins in 2018.

But now they're forced to adhere to the nonsense they've been spewing for the last 7+ years. Obamacare can't work, doesn't work, therefore it must be entirely done away with. The problem is, they're obviously incapable of doing anything other than Mr. Burns level shit that's nothing less than plain fucking evil. OTOH, they can tell their constituents anything and they'll believe it.

For example, Trump denied Russia meddled in the elections until a few days ago. Now? Now he says they did and it was Obama's fault. Without the slightest hitch in their get-along, his fans simply started blaming Obama for it. No, "Hey wait a minute, this whole time he said ... and suddenly he's saying ..." Nope, not a single flinch.

So it only stands to reason that the GOP could trot out Obamacare, but say, require the money to be disbursed to each state instead of giving states the option to refuse it and in a few lines of legalese, improve the ACA and switch its name to Most Glorious Jesus Care and they'd have a huge win. Of course, massive tax breaks wouldn't be able to be given, but maybe if the GOP made good policy, they wouldn't be as beholden.

I know, it's a silly fantasy.