Rape victim ordered to pay her abuser child support

[Arctish]

I understand that. It's why I'm not a feminist.

You're not a feminist because you're male. You're not eligible.

Hey, @Arctish .

This might help you understand what radical feminist means.
Tom

I think that's the 'e' for 'exclusionary'.

Emily Lake appears to be a mef (male exclusionary feminist). I'm a mif (male inclusionary feminist).

 

[Arctish]

I think you have a regressive view of women as moral agents.

Not at all. I think Toni and I acknowledge that males and females actually, really, are different in some ways. Some of those ways are physical... some of those ways are emotional. Evolution doesn't give a fuck about morality.

Acknowledging that men and women are different does not mean that a 19 year old woman has no moral agency and can't make decisions for herself.

This discussion is about a 16 year old and the 30 year old who raped her. Whatever you think about the moral agency of 19 year olds isn't really relevant.

 

[Gospel]

Talking to people isn't enough to tell how old they are but it's a necessary step in the process. Usually it's the first step.

I'm willing to go on record as saying that drunk 16 year olds are so unlikely to be able to conceal their youth that 5 minutes of conversation would be sufficient to reveal they're teenagers in >90% of cases, and flag the rest as 'immature or teenagers', no matter how hard they're trying to pass as adults.

Agreed. In my experience question like "what's your story?" was the most effective. If you have nothing but teen shit going on in your life it was easy to see. I can only speak for myself of course.

 

[Toni]

Talking to people isn't enough to tell how old they are but it's a necessary step in the process. Usually it's the first step.

I'm willing to go on record as saying that drunk 16 year olds are so unlikely to be able to conceal their youth that 5 minutes of conversation would be sufficient to reveal they're teenagers in >90% of cases, and flag the rest as 'immature or teenagers', no matter how hard they're trying to pass as adults.

90% isn't 100%. Most can easily be identified, but there will be outliers in both directions.

That's why I feel the law should be based on a reasonable verification of age rather than strict liability. We don't hold the bar or casino at fault if they're tricked by a fake ID, we simply expect them to check.

Oh. Yes, bar owners ARE held responsible if they are caught serving underage customers. I assume it’s the same for casinos.

Caught serving underage customers they haven't IDed. That's not the same as IDing and being presented with a convincing fake.

Not in my area although possessing a fake ID is a separate can result in separate charges

 

[Metaphor]

Talking to people isn't enough to tell how old they are but it's a necessary step in the process. Usually it's the first step.

I'm willing to go on record as saying that drunk 16 year olds are so unlikely to be able to conceal their youth that 5 minutes of conversation would be sufficient to reveal they're teenagers in >90% of cases, and flag the rest as 'immature or teenagers', no matter how hard they're trying to pass as adults.

90% isn't 100%. Most can easily be identified, but there will be outliers in both directions.

That's why I feel the law should be based on a reasonable verification of age rather than strict liability. We don't hold the bar or casino at fault if they're tricked by a fake ID, we simply expect them to check.

Oh. Yes, bar owners ARE held responsible if they are caught serving underage customers. I assume it’s the same for casinos.

Caught serving underage customers they haven't IDed. That's not the same as IDing and being presented with a convincing fake.

The law may well be very different in Nevada, but around here the offence is "supplying alcohol to a minor". The existence of a convincing fake ID isn't a defence.

Once again, you are incorrect. A convincing ID is a defence coded in statutory law in, for example, NSW.

(1) Selling liquor to minors A person must not sell liquor to a minor.

: Maximum penalty--100 penalty units or 12 months imprisonment (or both).

(2) Supplying liquor to minors on licensed premises A person must not supply liquor to a minor on licensed premises.

: Maximum penalty--100 penalty units or 12 months imprisonment (or both).

(3) It is a defence to a prosecution for an offence under subsection (1) or (2) if it is proved that--

(a) the person to whom the liquor was sold or supplied was of or above the age of 14 years, and

(b) before the liquor was sold or supplied to the person the defendant was provided with an evidence of age document that may reasonably be accepted as applying to the person and as proving that the person was of or above the age of 18 years.

As well as Queensland

View - Queensland Legislation - Queensland Government

www.legislation.qld.gov.au

230Defence to charge if age material

(1)If the age of a person is material to a charge of an offence against this Act, it is a defence to prove that, at the time of the offence, the defendant (if the defendant is the actual offender) or an agent or employee (if the defendant is charged merely because of being principal or employer of the actual offender)—

(a)honestly and reasonably believed that the person whose age is material to the offence had attained 18 years; or

(b)had sighted acceptable evidence of age of the person whose age is material to the offence that indicated the person had attained 18 years;

and the operation of section 24 of the Criminal Code is excluded.

 

[Gospel]

Once again, you are incorrect. A convincing ID is a defence coded in statutory law.

Source.

 

[Metaphor]

Once again, you are incorrect. A convincing ID is a defence coded in statutory law.

Source.

You must have quoted me immediately after I posted that (accidentally), as I was trying to paste my sources in.

The sources are now in the post.

bilby has now twice been wrong in two days about Queensland law, so I'm glad he's a bus driver and not a lawyer.

 

[Gospel]

I always forget when talking to you about laws that we're not talking about US law.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Oh. Yes, bar owners ARE held responsible if they are caught serving underage customers. I assume it’s the same for casinos.

Caught serving underage customers they haven't IDed. That's not the same as IDing and being presented with a convincing fake.

The law may well be very different in Nevada, but around here the offence is "supplying alcohol to a minor". The existence of a convincing fake ID isn't a defence.

Though you could probably get the case dropped if the minor in question was able to use the same ID to convince the court that they were of legal age

Could be why NYC has "so many" unsolved murders. The cops are too busy patrolling bars for underaged drinkers.

 

[Toni]

Oh. Yes, bar owners ARE held responsible if they are caught serving underage customers. I assume it’s the same for casinos.

Caught serving underage customers they haven't IDed. That's not the same as IDing and being presented with a convincing fake.

The law may well be very different in Nevada, but around here the offence is "supplying alcohol to a minor". The existence of a convincing fake ID isn't a defence.

Though you could probably get the case dropped if the minor in question was able to use the same ID to convince the court that they were of legal age

Could be why NYC has "so many" unsolved murders. The cops are too busy patrolling bars for underaged drinkers.

I think ( but don’t know for certain) in NYC, the licensing board may have agents who look for various violations pertaining to liquor license violations. In my area ( small college town flyover country) local police sometimes announce ‘an initiative’ to determine compliance with under age laws. Amazingly enough there is often one or two bars which don’t take this seriously and there’s a bunch of busts of college freshmen trying out their newfound freedom.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Oh. Yes, bar owners ARE held responsible if they are caught serving underage customers. I assume it’s the same for casinos.

Caught serving underage customers they haven't IDed. That's not the same as IDing and being presented with a convincing fake.

The law may well be very different in Nevada, but around here the offence is "supplying alcohol to a minor". The existence of a convincing fake ID isn't a defence.

Though you could probably get the case dropped if the minor in question was able to use the same ID to convince the court that they were of legal age

Could be why NYC has "so many" unsolved murders. The cops are too busy patrolling bars for underaged drinkers.

I think ( but don’t know for certain) in NYC, the licensing board may have agents who look for various violations pertaining to liquor license violations.

In the metropolitan bureaucracy system, the people are represented by an important group of agents: Those that police the age of people drinking in bars, among other things. These are their stories. *dong dong*

 

[Toni]

Alcohol Sale Complaint · NYC311

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Flyover country posts moved to: https://iidb.org/threads/flyover-co...rdered-to-pay-her-abuser-child-support.26422/

 

[ZiprHead]

The Iowa teen who killed her alleged rapist and was sentenced to probation has escaped from custody | CNN

Pieper Lewis, the Iowa teenager who killed a man she said raped her and was sentenced to probation and ordered to pay restitution to his family, has escaped from a residential corrections facility, according to Iowa's Fifth Judicial District Department of Corrections.

www.cnn.com

Pieper Lewis, the Iowa teenager who killed a man she said raped her and was sentenced to probation and ordered to pay restitution to his family, has escaped from a residential corrections facility, according to Iowa’s Fifth Judicial District Department of Corrections.

Lewis “walked away from the Fresh Start Women’s Center on Friday at 6:19 a.m. after cutting off her electronic monitoring tracking device,” Jerry Evans, the district’s executive director, told CNN in an email Sunday morning. “At this time, her whereabouts are unknown.”

Officials have filed a probation violation report, Evans said, recommending her probation be revoked. “A warrant for her arrest was subsequently issued that remains outstanding.”

 

[Toni]

The Iowa teen who killed her alleged rapist and was sentenced to probation has escaped from custody | CNN

Pieper Lewis, the Iowa teenager who killed a man she said raped her and was sentenced to probation and ordered to pay restitution to his family, has escaped from a residential corrections facility, according to Iowa's Fifth Judicial District Department of Corrections.

www.cnn.com

Pieper Lewis, the Iowa teenager who killed a man she said raped her and was sentenced to probation and ordered to pay restitution to his family, has escaped from a residential corrections facility, according to Iowa’s Fifth Judicial District Department of Corrections.

Lewis “walked away from the Fresh Start Women’s Center on Friday at 6:19 a.m. after cutting off her electronic monitoring tracking device,” Jerry Evans, the district’s executive director, told CNN in an email Sunday morning. “At this time, her whereabouts are unknown.”

Officials have filed a probation violation report, Evans said, recommending her probation be revoked. “A warrant for her arrest was subsequently issued that remains outstanding.”

Why was she in custody if she was sentenced to probation?

 

[TomC]

Why was she in custody if she was sentenced to probation?

Because she's a convicted murderer.

It's right there in the story ZiprHead posted.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Why was she in custody if she was sentenced to probation?

Because she's a convicted murderer.

It's right there in the story ZiprHead posted.
Tom

She was given probation for voluntary manslaughter committed against one of her rapists while she was a trafficked minor. So no, she is not a convicted murderer.

 

[atrib]

Why was she in custody if she was sentenced to probation?

Because she's a convicted murderer.

It's right there in the story ZiprHead posted.
Tom

She was convicted of voluntary manslaughter. Which is not the same thing as murder.

Its right there in the story Ziprhead posted.

 

[TomC]

People believe that Donald Trump won the 2020 election. People believe that the Sandy Hook shooting was staged.

It's remarkable how easily people come to believe stuff that matches their preconceived notions if they hear about it on the internet.
Tom

 

[Derec]

She was given probation for voluntary manslaughter

I.e. she got away with murder and only got a slap on the wrist.

committed against one of her rapists while she was a trafficked minor.

That, even if true (mere self-serving claims do not prove anything) does not justify murdering somebody.
We went over that when we discussed the case of that woman in Tennessee who robbed and murdered a man in cold blood. At least she served a few years in prison before she was unjustly released though.

So no, she is not a convicted murderer.

Female privilege. Just like with Nikki Redmond, Mary Winkler and countless others.