Rapefugee lied about his age to get to stay in Germany, ...

[Loren Pechtel]

Speculation can make housing too expensive. It doesn't make it absent. What makes it absent is suppression of construction--almost always due to leftist worries about the impact of the construction.

And you've got it backwards about the ghost cities--those are excess capacity, not a lack of capacity.

Correct. The Chinese are excellent organizers. I've seen a whole street demolished over the weekend and the following weekend the housing spaces were grass lawns waiting for the construction.

In planning they also built in more than they required in anticipation of any possible surplus to predictions.

The ghost cities aren't deliberate overbuilding in anticipation of demand, but rather due to the government obsession with maintaining an unsustainable growth rate. They have more production capacity than they need but they are desperately trying to avoid a recession.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Correct. The Chinese are excellent organizers. I've seen a whole street demolished over the weekend and the following weekend the housing spaces were grass lawns waiting for the construction.

In planning they also built in more than they required in anticipation of any possible surplus to predictions.

The ghost cities aren't deliberate overbuilding in anticipation of demand, but rather due to the government obsession with maintaining an unsustainable growth rate. They have more production capacity than they need but they are desperately trying to avoid a recession.

It's a better problem than having an acute shortage of houses like we do in the UK.

- - - Updated - - -

Or what you say has nothing to do with the point I made and the statistics I quoted.

Your point was literally babbling nonsense, as you tacitly admitted. For some reason, you feel the need to bring in your distorted viewpoint of the UK state of distress due to immigration to derail any discussion about immigrants anywhere else in the world.

The thread started off about Germany, and there is no harm relating to such problems in other European countries.

 

[laughing dog]

The thread started off about Germany, and there is no harm relating to such problems in other European countries.

There is no harm in relating it to such problems as whether chocolate ice cream melts faster than vanilla ice cream except that it is a derail.

 

[whichphilosophy]

The thread started off about Germany, and there is no harm relating to such problems in other European countries.

There is no harm in relating it to such problems as whether chocolate ice cream melts faster than vanilla ice cream except that it is a derail.

There is when it comes to comparing one country with another.

 

[bilby]

The ghost cities aren't deliberate overbuilding in anticipation of demand, but rather due to the government obsession with maintaining an unsustainable growth rate. They have more production capacity than they need but they are desperately trying to avoid a recession.

It's a better problem than having an acute shortage of houses like we do in the UK.

Except that, despite your repeating it ad nauseam, it STILL hasn't become true.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/03/number-empty-homes-hits-highest-rate-20-years-calling-question/

The number of empty homes in the UK is at its highest level for 20 years ...

Analysis of Government figures shows that there are more than one million additional homes above those required for households in the UK.

This "housing surplus" has nearly doubled from 800,000 spare homes in 1996 to 1.4million homes at any one time in 2014.

Perhaps it will be true if you repeat it another few dozen times? Or maybe you are just demonstrably wrong in the entire basis of almost every single post you have made on the topic, and should shut the fuck up until you have some actual facts to base your posts upon.

I know which option I think is most likely.

 

[whichphilosophy]

It's a better problem than having an acute shortage of houses like we do in the UK.

Except that, despite your repeating it ad nauseam, it STILL hasn't become true.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/03/number-empty-homes-hits-highest-rate-20-years-calling-question/

The number of empty homes in the UK is at its highest level for 20 years ...

Analysis of Government figures shows that there are more than one million additional homes above those required for households in the UK.

This "housing surplus" has nearly doubled from 800,000 spare homes in 1996 to 1.4million homes at any one time in 2014.

Perhaps it will be true if you repeat it another few dozen times? Or maybe you are just demonstrably wrong in the entire basis of almost every single post you have made on the topic, and should shut the fuck up until you have some actual facts to base your posts upon.

I know which option I think is most likely.

Absolutely not as reported in 2015 and quoted from the Builder's Federation. Added to this many small builder's went out of business since the banks have restricted lending. Thus there is a huge reduction in smaller projects

A person has to live in Ealing for 5 years before being put on a council list.

This phrase also draws suspicion where the following inflates the figure


These “empty homes” are typically second homes, or vacant properties which are either left empty or are awaiting for tenants or home owners to move in.

There are constantly hundreds of thousands of properties in the process being vacated for sales, and re let but they are certainly not being re let. It is fools gold to count houses in the process of sales and re letting since such figures are false. There will always be some houses owned by people who commute abroad to work.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30776306


For decades after World War Two the UK used to build more than 300,000 new homes a year. Recently it's managed about half that.
The country is facing up to a housebuilding crisis. A decade ago, the Barker Review of Housing Supply noted that about 250,000 homes needed to be built every year to prevent spiralling house prices and a shortage of affordable homes.


In May 2014, Mark Carney, governor of the Bank of England, complained that housebuilding in the UK was half that of his native Canada, despite the UK having a population twice the size. The consequences have been rocketing prices in London, the South East and some other parts of the country.

And

For homelessness charity Shelter a shortage of available building land is the main reason for the housing shortage. "We fail to provide enough land at prices that make it possible to build decent, affordable homes," a spokesman says. Land prices have inflated "massively", Shelter says. Residential land prices rose 170% from 2000 to 2007 compared to house prices which rose 124%, according to the IPPR.


https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/24/social-housing-poverty-homeless-shelter-rent

Housing crisis threatens a million families with eviction by 2020
Report shows combination of low wages, freezes to benefits and rising costs of renting could cause more than 1 million households to become homeless

I would say the quoted figures for people who are homeless are considerably higher since a person sleeping on the floor or on the couch at a friend is no longer considered homeless.


https://www.ft.com/content/089f8448-b192-11e6-a37c-f4a01f1b0fa1

UK’s housing shortage targeted with £3.7bn for new homes

Change in government strategy marked by funding for rental sector as well as ownership

An earlier 2014 report

https://www.mortgagestrategy.co.uk/...ion-homes-short-of-meeting-its-housing-needs/

It says based on Barker’s assumptions in her original report the UK is now 1 million homes short of what a decade ago was needed to adequately house its population and prevent a worsening affordability crisis.

I doubt if the Telegraph article can be taken with any depth of seriousness considering it counts properties changing hands as vacant.

 

[bilby]

Except that, despite your repeating it ad nauseam, it STILL hasn't become true.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/03/number-empty-homes-hits-highest-rate-20-years-calling-question/

The number of empty homes in the UK is at its highest level for 20 years ...

Analysis of Government figures shows that there are more than one million additional homes above those required for households in the UK.

This "housing surplus" has nearly doubled from 800,000 spare homes in 1996 to 1.4million homes at any one time in 2014.

Perhaps it will be true if you repeat it another few dozen times? Or maybe you are just demonstrably wrong in the entire basis of almost every single post you have made on the topic, and should shut the fuck up until you have some actual facts to base your posts upon.

I know which option I think is most likely.

Absolutely not as reported in 2015 and quoted from the Builder's Federation. Added to this many small builder's went out of business since the banks have restricted lending. Thus there is a huge reduction in smaller projects

A person has to live in Ealing for 5 years before being put on a council list.

This phrase also draws suspicion where the following inflates the figure


These “empty homes” are typically second homes, or vacant properties which are either left empty or are awaiting for tenants or home owners to move in.

There are constantly hundreds of thousands of properties in the process being vacated for sales, and re let but they are certainly not being re let. It is fools gold to count houses in the process of sales and re letting since such figures are false. There will always be some houses owned by people who commute abroad to work.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30776306


For decades after World War Two the UK used to build more than 300,000 new homes a year. Recently it's managed about half that.
The country is facing up to a housebuilding crisis. A decade ago, the Barker Review of Housing Supply noted that about 250,000 homes needed to be built every year to prevent spiralling house prices and a shortage of affordable homes.


In May 2014, Mark Carney, governor of the Bank of England, complained that housebuilding in the UK was half that of his native Canada, despite the UK having a population twice the size. The consequences have been rocketing prices in London, the South East and some other parts of the country.

And

For homelessness charity Shelter a shortage of available building land is the main reason for the housing shortage. "We fail to provide enough land at prices that make it possible to build decent, affordable homes," a spokesman says. Land prices have inflated "massively", Shelter says. Residential land prices rose 170% from 2000 to 2007 compared to house prices which rose 124%, according to the IPPR.


https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/24/social-housing-poverty-homeless-shelter-rent

Housing crisis threatens a million families with eviction by 2020
Report shows combination of low wages, freezes to benefits and rising costs of renting could cause more than 1 million households to become homeless

I would say the quoted figures for people who are homeless are considerably higher since a person sleeping on the floor or on the couch at a friend is no longer considered homeless.


https://www.ft.com/content/089f8448-b192-11e6-a37c-f4a01f1b0fa1

UK’s housing shortage targeted with £3.7bn for new homes

Change in government strategy marked by funding for rental sector as well as ownership

An earlier 2014 report

https://www.mortgagestrategy.co.uk/...ion-homes-short-of-meeting-its-housing-needs/

It says based on Barker’s assumptions in her original report the UK is now 1 million homes short of what a decade ago was needed to adequately house its population and prevent a worsening affordability crisis.

I doubt if the Telegraph article can be taken with any depth of seriousness considering it counts properties changing hands as vacant.

So in summary, you really want to be right, so evidence against your position should be ignored, and evidence in favour given inflated importance.

At best, it is uncertain whether or not there is a housing shortage in the UK; Likely there is one in London, but not in the UK as a whole.

Your arguments against immigration, which depend upon there being a large and worsening housing shortage in the UK as a whole are therefore tenuous at best. Certainly they are not a compelling reason to become a small-minded racist cunt; nor to blame any shortage on the small subset of new Britons who are arrivals from overseas, rather than on the large fraction who are native born; nor to destroy the British economy with the farcical cluster-fuck that is Brexit.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Except that, despite your repeating it ad nauseam, it STILL hasn't become true.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/03/number-empty-homes-hits-highest-rate-20-years-calling-question/

The number of empty homes in the UK is at its highest level for 20 years ...

Analysis of Government figures shows that there are more than one million additional homes above those required for households in the UK.

This "housing surplus" has nearly doubled from 800,000 spare homes in 1996 to 1.4million homes at any one time in 2014.

Perhaps it will be true if you repeat it another few dozen times? Or maybe you are just demonstrably wrong in the entire basis of almost every single post you have made on the topic, and should shut the fuck up until you have some actual facts to base your posts upon.

I know which option I think is most likely.

Absolutely not as reported in 2015 and quoted from the Builder's Federation. Added to this many small builder's went out of business since the banks have restricted lending. Thus there is a huge reduction in smaller projects

A person has to live in Ealing for 5 years before being put on a council list.

This phrase also draws suspicion where the following inflates the figure


These “empty homes” are typically second homes, or vacant properties which are either left empty or are awaiting for tenants or home owners to move in.

There are constantly hundreds of thousands of properties in the process being vacated for sales, and re let but they are certainly not being re let. It is fools gold to count houses in the process of sales and re letting since such figures are false. There will always be some houses owned by people who commute abroad to work.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30776306


For decades after World War Two the UK used to build more than 300,000 new homes a year. Recently it's managed about half that.
The country is facing up to a housebuilding crisis. A decade ago, the Barker Review of Housing Supply noted that about 250,000 homes needed to be built every year to prevent spiralling house prices and a shortage of affordable homes.


In May 2014, Mark Carney, governor of the Bank of England, complained that housebuilding in the UK was half that of his native Canada, despite the UK having a population twice the size. The consequences have been rocketing prices in London, the South East and some other parts of the country.

And

For homelessness charity Shelter a shortage of available building land is the main reason for the housing shortage. "We fail to provide enough land at prices that make it possible to build decent, affordable homes," a spokesman says. Land prices have inflated "massively", Shelter says. Residential land prices rose 170% from 2000 to 2007 compared to house prices which rose 124%, according to the IPPR.


https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/24/social-housing-poverty-homeless-shelter-rent

Housing crisis threatens a million families with eviction by 2020
Report shows combination of low wages, freezes to benefits and rising costs of renting could cause more than 1 million households to become homeless

I would say the quoted figures for people who are homeless are considerably higher since a person sleeping on the floor or on the couch at a friend is no longer considered homeless.


https://www.ft.com/content/089f8448-b192-11e6-a37c-f4a01f1b0fa1

UK’s housing shortage targeted with £3.7bn for new homes

Change in government strategy marked by funding for rental sector as well as ownership

An earlier 2014 report

https://www.mortgagestrategy.co.uk/...ion-homes-short-of-meeting-its-housing-needs/

It says based on Barker’s assumptions in her original report the UK is now 1 million homes short of what a decade ago was needed to adequately house its population and prevent a worsening affordability crisis.

I doubt if the Telegraph article can be taken with any depth of seriousness considering it counts properties changing hands as vacant.

So in summary, you really want to be right, so evidence against your position should be ignored, and evidence in favour given inflated importance.

At best, it is uncertain whether or not there is a housing shortage in the UK; Likely there is one in London, but not in the UK as a whole.

Your arguments against immigration, which depend upon there being a large and worsening housing shortage in the UK as a whole are therefore tenuous at best. Certainly they are not a compelling reason to become a small-minded racist cunt; nor to blame any shortage on the small subset of new Britons who are arrivals from overseas, rather than on the large fraction who are native born; nor to destroy the British economy with the farcical cluster-fuck that is Brexit.

You've produced one vague seemingly falsely compiled report (inflating transient houses as vacant) against several others as I demonstrated. There a report which lip syncs the current government is further devoid of meaning.

Given I am a mix of 4 nationalities married to someone from the Philippines the race card is somewhat farcical.

You can find some areas in the UK where it is easier to find a house. However it's pointless for many if there are no jobs in such areas.

 

[DrZoidberg]

then he raped and murdered a German student.

He claimed to be 16 when he came to Germany in 2015 (The year a million Muslim mass migrants flooded in, danke Merkel!), because minors have a better chance to stay than adults like him. In October 2016 he committed his crime.
Recent German article: Hussein K. hat bei seinem Alter gelogen
Older English article, where his fake age is not doubted: Arrest of refugee in rape and slaying in Germany threatens Merkel's immigration policy
Recent English article: Afghan asylum seeker accused of raping and murdering EU official's teenage daughter 'attacked her to satisfy his sexual urges before leaving her unconscious in a river to drown'
Sorry for Daily Mail. The only other recent story was from Breitbart.
What this article reveals is that the fakefugee had a history of violence while in Greece.

Why the hell did Greece let him out early? And why wasn't he deported back to Afghanistan right then and there?

But Merkel's open door policy did no checks (not even for history of serious and/or violent crime) on any of the million+ Muslim mass migrants she foolishly let in. She just threw the floodgates open.

As bad as Angela Merkel was re letting mass migrants in, she will win the elections because the SPD alternative is much worse.

Shut up, asshole!

He is hardly the only Muslim mass migrant who lied about his age to improve his chances of staying in Europe.
It's a very common problem, largely ignored by European authorities - i.e. they let them get away with it for the most part.
Refugees Lie About Age to Avoid Deportation, But at a Price
A Somali woman of 30 claimed to be 19, and the Swedish authorities did not even question that claim (they just think it's weird she has high blood pressure. In a decade or two they'll be amazed that she entered menopause so young, but they will never deport her for lying). And they also say that 90% of supposed "child refugees" are actually adults. The Swedish Radio article has the typical (just look at Zoidberg and Juma's posts!) "those poor lying immigrants" attitude, which is sickening.
Three in four 'child' asylum seekers are actually adults, Denmark claims
This is in Denmark.

Rowan Farrell, co-founder of Refugee Info Bus, a charity that operated in the Calais Jungle camp, told The Independent earlier this year: "A lot of the 16 and 17 year-olds in the camp look very weathered. Refugees and migrants who look a lot older.

"But then you speak to them and see that they speak and act like a child, because they are in fact a child."

Yeah, sure, whatever you say.

It's just incentives. If lying about your age makes it easier to stay as a refugee, people will lie about their age. And since there's no reliable way to test age in humans, this is relatively risk free. Refugees leave their home countries because they are already in a desperate state, when they leave. Desperate people will do and say desperate things. Lying is one example.

Some people are rapists. That includes refugees. So far there's not been any reliable study to show that immigrants/Muslims/refugees and whatnot are over-represented in the rape statistics. Not in any statistically significant way. Some countries, like Denmark, record ethnicity and religion when arresting people. In Germany they record nationality. So we have these numbers. So we can stop speculating on if it's true or not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime_in_Germany

The worrying thing about this article is that his refugee status is stressed in the article. It looks to me that they're implying something. What do you think they're trying to imply? What do you think they're trying to make us think? Could it perhaps be that they're trying to make us fear refugees? Implying that refugees are more likely to be rapists than nationals? They're not.

 

[Derec]

It's just incentives. If lying about your age makes it easier to stay as a refugee, people will lie about their age.

If your governments incentivize the wrong thing, then the government policies must change.

And since there's no reliable way to test age in humans, this is relatively risk free.

The articles on these fakers mention using teeth to determine age. Obviously it's not absolute.

Refugees leave their home countries because they are already in a desperate state, when they leave.

Most of these mass migrants are not "refugees". This guy who murdered that woman in Germany (and who really wanted to go to Sweden, didn't you guys dodge a bullet with this one) is an Afghan who lived in Iran with his brother at the time he decided to invade Europe. His reason was not war or safety, but not being able to find a well-paying job in Iran. He was certainly no refugee, but an economic migrant.

Desperate people will do and say desperate things. Lying is one example.

But the solution is not to shrug one's shoulders and accept it as inevitable and let them get away with it.
The solution is to be more skeptical over self-reported age and to immediately deport anybody who has been lying about their age in order to stay.

Some people are rapists. That includes refugees.

And why should they get to stay in Europe then? Remember the case in Sweden where that "refugee" raped a 13 year old girl was was nevertheless only given probation and was allowed to stayin Sweden. Such nonsense is indefensible.

So far there's not been any reliable study to show that immigrants/Muslims/refugees and whatnot are over-represented in the rape statistics. Not in any statistically significant way. Some countries, like Denmark, record ethnicity and religion when arresting people. In Germany they record nationality. So we have these numbers. So we can stop speculating on if it's true or not.

We certainly have no studies showing the opposite ether.
And even if they were not more likely to rape, why should criminal migrants not get deported? Why should European countries allow unrestricted mass migration where you do not check if people you let in are criminals (the OP guy already had a serious criminal record in Greece), extremists or simply lie about their age.

Btw, I wonder if Sweden and Germany will repeat their open invitation to the million Rohingya Muslims who have been waging a separatist campaign against Myanmar?

The worrying thing about this article is that his refugee status is stressed in the article. It looks to me that they're implying something. What do you think they're trying to imply? What do you think they're trying to make us think? Could it perhaps be that they're trying to make us fear refugees? Implying that refugees are more likely to be rapists than nationals? They're not.

At the very least it should make us think about giving "refugee status" willy nilly to people who are at best economic migrants. And to unquestioningly believe the age or nationality people give (for example somebody says he's a Syrian but sounds just like Apu) when they have conveniently "lost" their passports and all documentation. Especially when they look older than they claim.

 

[whichphilosophy]

then he raped and murdered a German student.

He claimed to be 16 when he came to Germany in 2015 (The year a million Muslim mass migrants flooded in, danke Merkel!), because minors have a better chance to stay than adults like him. In October 2016 he committed his crime.
Recent German article: Hussein K. hat bei seinem Alter gelogen
Older English article, where his fake age is not doubted: Arrest of refugee in rape and slaying in Germany threatens Merkel's immigration policy
Recent English article: Afghan asylum seeker accused of raping and murdering EU official's teenage daughter 'attacked her to satisfy his sexual urges before leaving her unconscious in a river to drown'
Sorry for Daily Mail. The only other recent story was from Breitbart.
What this article reveals is that the fakefugee had a history of violence while in Greece.

Why the hell did Greece let him out early? And why wasn't he deported back to Afghanistan right then and there?

But Merkel's open door policy did no checks (not even for history of serious and/or violent crime) on any of the million+ Muslim mass migrants she foolishly let in. She just threw the floodgates open.

As bad as Angela Merkel was re letting mass migrants in, she will win the elections because the SPD alternative is much worse.

Shut up, asshole!

He is hardly the only Muslim mass migrant who lied about his age to improve his chances of staying in Europe.
It's a very common problem, largely ignored by European authorities - i.e. they let them get away with it for the most part.
Refugees Lie About Age to Avoid Deportation, But at a Price
A Somali woman of 30 claimed to be 19, and the Swedish authorities did not even question that claim (they just think it's weird she has high blood pressure. In a decade or two they'll be amazed that she entered menopause so young, but they will never deport her for lying). And they also say that 90% of supposed "child refugees" are actually adults. The Swedish Radio article has the typical (just look at Zoidberg and Juma's posts!) "those poor lying immigrants" attitude, which is sickening.
Three in four 'child' asylum seekers are actually adults, Denmark claims
This is in Denmark.

"But then you speak to them and see that they speak and act like a child, because they are in fact a child."

Yeah, sure, whatever you say.

It's just incentives. If lying about your age makes it easier to stay as a refugee, people will lie about their age. And since there's no reliable way to test age in humans, this is relatively risk free. Refugees leave their home countries because they are already in a desperate state, when they leave. Desperate people will do and say desperate things. Lying is one example.

Some people are rapists. That includes refugees. So far there's not been any reliable study to show that immigrants/Muslims/refugees and whatnot are over-represented in the rape statistics. Not in any statistically significant way. Some countries, like Denmark, record ethnicity and religion when arresting people. In Germany they record nationality. So we have these numbers. So we can stop speculating on if it's true or not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime_in_Germany

The worrying thing about this article is that his refugee status is stressed in the article. It looks to me that they're implying something. What do you think they're trying to imply? What do you think they're trying to make us think? Could it perhaps be that they're trying to make us fear refugees? Implying that refugees are more likely to be rapists than nationals? They're not.

People in a desperate position would lie, but this is one of the selling tools for the traffickers. Those non genuine cases purposely don't have documents either

 

[Malintent]

The post is a bit dramatic but this happens in the UK and other parts of Europe. In the UK we have to take these people in to check their ages. In some cases they then abscond from the care centres. At the same time children are being sent over via smugglers and without their parents, not just from war torn countries.

We have many supposed "childhood arrivals" too, many of them not brought by their parents but crossing the border by themselves. I wonder how many of the 800,000 "dreamers" were actually older than 16 when they came to US illegally and just lied about their age.

Lets cut them in half and count the rings... to be sure.

 

[Malintent]

The thread started off about Germany, and there is no harm relating to such problems in other European countries.

There is no harm in relating it to such problems as whether chocolate ice cream melts faster than vanilla ice cream except that it is a derail.

Chocolate ice cream melts faster, by the way... ask any climatologist.

 

[bilby]

If your governments incentivize the wrong thing, then the government policies must change.

And since there's no reliable way to test age in humans, this is relatively risk free.

The articles on these fakers mention using teeth to determine age. Obviously it's not absolute.

Refugees leave their home countries because they are already in a desperate state, when they leave.

Most of these mass migrants are not "refugees". This guy who murdered that woman in Germany (and who really wanted to go to Sweden, didn't you guys dodge a bullet with this one) is an Afghan who lived in Iran with his brother at the time he decided to invade Europe. His reason was not war or safety, but not being able to find a well-paying job in Iran. He was certainly no refugee, but an economic migrant.

Desperate people will do and say desperate things. Lying is one example.

But the solution is not to shrug one's shoulders and accept it as inevitable and let them get away with it.
The solution is to be more skeptical over self-reported age and to immediately deport anybody who has been lying about their age in order to stay.

Some people are rapists. That includes refugees.

And why should they get to stay in Europe then? Remember the case in Sweden where that "refugee" raped a 13 year old girl was was nevertheless only given probation and was allowed to stayin Sweden. Such nonsense is indefensible.

So far there's not been any reliable study to show that immigrants/Muslims/refugees and whatnot are over-represented in the rape statistics. Not in any statistically significant way. Some countries, like Denmark, record ethnicity and religion when arresting people. In Germany they record nationality. So we have these numbers. So we can stop speculating on if it's true or not.

We certainly have no studies showing the opposite ether.
And even if they were not more likely to rape, why should criminal migrants not get deported? Why should European countries allow unrestricted mass migration where you do not check if people you let in are criminals (the OP guy already had a serious criminal record in Greece), extremists or simply lie about their age.

Btw, I wonder if Sweden and Germany will repeat their open invitation to the million Rohingya Muslims who have been waging a separatist campaign against Myanmar?

The worrying thing about this article is that his refugee status is stressed in the article. It looks to me that they're implying something. What do you think they're trying to imply? What do you think they're trying to make us think? Could it perhaps be that they're trying to make us fear refugees? Implying that refugees are more likely to be rapists than nationals? They're not.

At the very least it should make us think about giving "refugee status" willy nilly to people who are at best economic migrants. And to unquestioningly believe the age or nationality people give (for example somebody says he's a Syrian but sounds just like Apu) when they have conveniently "lost" their passports and all documentation. Especially when they look older than they claim.

So you are saying that it's a good idea to be cruel to millions of people, because dozens of them deserve it.

That's absolutely fucking horrible; and makes you a very bad person. Indeed, by your own logic, it justifies people being cruel to you, and to anyone who is even vaguely associated with you.

And, as if your vile and cruel opinions were not bad enough, worse still, you seem to genuinely believe that they are positive, and of benefit to humanity.

People who are knowingly vile scumbags are bad; but people who are vile scumbags who think that they are virtuous are far worse. We would be better off keeping the rapists, and deporting you.

 

[whichphilosophy]

There is no harm in relating it to such problems as whether chocolate ice cream melts faster than vanilla ice cream except that it is a derail.

Chocolate ice cream melts faster, by the way... ask any climatologist.

Kulfi ice cream melts even slower.

- - - Updated - - -

If your governments incentivize the wrong thing, then the government policies must change.

The articles on these fakers mention using teeth to determine age. Obviously it's not absolute.

Refugees leave their home countries because they are already in a desperate state, when they leave.

Most of these mass migrants are not "refugees". This guy who murdered that woman in Germany (and who really wanted to go to Sweden, didn't you guys dodge a bullet with this one) is an Afghan who lived in Iran with his brother at the time he decided to invade Europe. His reason was not war or safety, but not being able to find a well-paying job in Iran. He was certainly no refugee, but an economic migrant.

Desperate people will do and say desperate things. Lying is one example.

But the solution is not to shrug one's shoulders and accept it as inevitable and let them get away with it.
The solution is to be more skeptical over self-reported age and to immediately deport anybody who has been lying about their age in order to stay.

Some people are rapists. That includes refugees.

And why should they get to stay in Europe then? Remember the case in Sweden where that "refugee" raped a 13 year old girl was was nevertheless only given probation and was allowed to stayin Sweden. Such nonsense is indefensible.

So far there's not been any reliable study to show that immigrants/Muslims/refugees and whatnot are over-represented in the rape statistics. Not in any statistically significant way. Some countries, like Denmark, record ethnicity and religion when arresting people. In Germany they record nationality. So we have these numbers. So we can stop speculating on if it's true or not.

We certainly have no studies showing the opposite ether.
And even if they were not more likely to rape, why should criminal migrants not get deported? Why should European countries allow unrestricted mass migration where you do not check if people you let in are criminals (the OP guy already had a serious criminal record in Greece), extremists or simply lie about their age.

Btw, I wonder if Sweden and Germany will repeat their open invitation to the million Rohingya Muslims who have been waging a separatist campaign against Myanmar?

The worrying thing about this article is that his refugee status is stressed in the article. It looks to me that they're implying something. What do you think they're trying to imply? What do you think they're trying to make us think? Could it perhaps be that they're trying to make us fear refugees? Implying that refugees are more likely to be rapists than nationals? They're not.

At the very least it should make us think about giving "refugee status" willy nilly to people who are at best economic migrants. And to unquestioningly believe the age or nationality people give (for example somebody says he's a Syrian but sounds just like Apu) when they have conveniently "lost" their passports and all documentation. Especially when they look older than they claim.

So you are saying that it's a good idea to be cruel to millions of people, because dozens of them deserve it.

That's absolutely fucking horrible; and makes you a very bad person. Indeed, by your own logic, it justifies people being cruel to you, and to anyone who is even vaguely associated with you.

And, as if your vile and cruel opinions were not bad enough, worse still, you seem to genuinely believe that they are positive, and of benefit to humanity.

People who are knowingly vile scumbags are bad; but people who are vile scumbags who think that they are virtuous are far worse. We would be better off keeping the rapists, and deporting you.

So it's better to keep rapists rather than listen to another point of view?

 

[DrZoidberg]

People who are knowingly vile scumbags are bad; but people who are vile scumbags who think that they are virtuous are far worse. We would be better off keeping the rapists, and deporting you.

So it's better to keep rapists rather than listen to another point of view?

False equivalent. It's got to do with how to minimise harm. Derec is spreading events out of context and trying to create associations and causalities where there are none. That's basically a lie. The spreading of lies can be as harmful as rape, if it leads to unwarranted reactions.

I think it's fair to compare the idea of Muslim refugees/immigrants as rapists (or more inclined to rape) with how Jews were portrayed by the Nazis.

Whenever we vilify any group of people the first choice is to bring suspicions about that groups abnormal sexual behaviours. Most often we try to create animalistic associations. Like that group is less good at controlling their sexuality. What causes offence depends on what the norms are at that time. The vilified group will invariably occupy whatever is the most immoral association.

So whenever a groups sexual behaviours are put into question we need to take a step back and ask ourselves if it's true. The statistics are freely available on the sexual behaviours of refugees in many countries. In Sweden we don't collect statistics on religion, ethnicity or alternative nationalities. But they do in Germany and Denmark. So we have the numbers.

Refugees, Muslims and immigrants aren't over-represented in the rape statistics. It's slightly a bit higher. But that can be explained by the fact that slightly higher rape statistics correlates with poverty. It's a class and status thing. So if we adjust for that then there's no difference. It's still just slightly higher. There's no rape epidemic. The number of reported rapes hasn't gone up since we got the flood of refugees. Nothing happened. We got some areas where rapes went up temporarily. These were dutifully reported by the racist press, Daily Mail and such. But it also went down in other areas. Its called statistical variance. Over time we saw that there's no statistically significant difference. Which is statistics-talk for rapes not going up.

Yet, the increase in rapes among refugees is a myth that persists. So we need to ask ourselves why? Derec came up with the creative name "rapefugee". Could things like that be the culprit? Do you think that the image and association of Muslims, people with darker complexion, immigrants and refugees, as more likely to rape, might negatively impact their lives? How much do you think that negatively impacts their lives?

That is harm being done. It's hard to compare the collective harm directed against these thousands people with one raped woman.

It also has more bizarre effects. It leads to a polarised society. We get people who can read statistics on one hand, against people who can't on the other. When people are divided they become blind to transgressions of people on the same side.

An example. A couple of months ago there was a Swedish woman who got drunk at a "refugees welcome" party. She was "helped home" by a black guy. Outside her home she collapsed and past out. The black guy proceeded to rape her on the grass outside her home. This was recorded and neighbours ran out to apprehend the man. Police was called to the scene. The woman then woke up, didn't remember anything was told what had happened. She then denied it and started to defend the black man and calling the police and her neighbours racists for making such an accusation. In court the video of it surfaced.

This is what polarisation leads to. Filtered reality, on all sides, and idiocy. Just fucking stop spreading nonsense and lies. There are genuine problems with Islam. How about focusing on that instead?

 

[whichphilosophy]

So it's better to keep rapists rather than listen to another point of view?

False equivalent. It's got to do with how to minimise harm. Derec is spreading lies about refugees, and trying to create associations and causalities where there are none. The spreading of lies can be as harmful as rape, if it leads to unwarranted reactions.

I think it's fair to compare the idea of Muslim refugees/immigrants as rapists (or more inclined to rape) with how Jews were portrayed by the Nazis.

Whenever we vilify any group of people the first choice is to bring suspicions about that groups abnormal sexual behaviours. Most often we try to create animalistic associations. Like that group is less good at controlling their sexuality. What causes offence depends on what the norms are at that time. The vilified group will invariably occupy whatever is the most immoral association.

So whenever a groups sexual behaviours are put into question we need to take a step back and ask ourselves if it's true. The statistics are freely available on the sexual behaviours of refugees in many countries. In Sweden we don't collect statistics on religion, ethnicity or alternative nationalities. But they do in Germany and Denmark. So we have the numbers.

Refugees, Muslims and immigrants aren't over-represented in the rape statistics. It's slightly a bit higher. But that can be explained by the fact that slightly higher rape statistics correlates with poverty. It's a class and status thing. So if we adjust for that then there's no difference. It's still just slightly higher. There's no rape epidemic. The number of reported rapes hasn't gone up since we got the flood of refugees. Nothing happened. We got some areas where rapes went up temporarily. These were dutifully reported by the racist press, Daily Mail and such. But it also went down in other areas. Its called statistical variance. Over time we saw that there's no statistically significant difference. Which is statistics-talk for rapes not going up.

Yet, the increase in rapes among refugees is a myth that persists. So we need to ask ourselves why? Derec came up with the creative name "rapefugee". Could things like that be the culprit? Do you think that the image and association of Muslims, people with darker complexion, immigrants and refugees, as more likely to rape, might negatively impact their lives? How much do you think that negatively impacts their lives?

That is harm being done. It's hard to compare the collective harm directed against these thousands people with one raped woman.

It also has more bizarre effects. It leads to a polarised society. We get people who can read statistics on one hand, against people who can't on the other. When people are divided they become blind to transgressions of people on the same side.

An example. A couple of months ago there was a Swedish woman who got drunk at a "refugees welcome" party. She was "helped home" by a black guy. Outside her home she collapsed and past out. The black guy proceeded to rape her on the grass outside her home. This was recorded and neighbours ran out to apprehend the man. Police was called to the scene. The woman then woke up, didn't remember anything was told what had happened. She then denied it and started to defend the black man and calling the police and her neighbours racists for making such an accusation. In court the video of it surfaced.

This is what polarisation leads to. Filtered reality, on all sides, and idiocy. Just fucking stop spreading nonsense and lies. There are genuine problems with Islam. How about focusing on that instead?

I think people prefer to be lied to than raped, even me

However it also gives you the opportunity to put forward your views which I am sure in life many listen to.

Per your last point of view, there are certainly problems with some Islamic societies that with the help of silent mainstream Muslims such as FMG, honour killings, and women's rights can be focused on.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I think people prefer to be lied to than raped, even me

The problem isn't the lying. The problem is what the lying leads to. The question should be, would you rather be randomly beaten up or randomly raped? If you pose the question that way, ie accurately, it's more clear what you're discussing.

A new trend in Europe is "nationalists" creating neighbourhood watches. Soldiers of Odin is one of these. They've become guilty of attacking innocent people of dark complexion. Once they went on a rampage through Stockholm attacking random people who looked foreign. These types of crimes have gone up. Politically right wing parties have gotten an upsurge because of these lies. Probably Brexit happened because of this.

Per your last point of view, there are certainly problems with some Islamic societies that with the help of silent mainstream Muslims such as FMG, honour killings, and women's rights can be focused on.

Yes, and discussing these things are made more difficult when you give these people a bunch of straw men. Anybody spreading the idea that Muslim immigrants and Muslim refugees are more likely to be rapists, are making it easier for people committing FGM to get away with it. It's harder to discuss Islamic women's rights and honour killings.

 

[whichphilosophy]

The problem isn't the lying. The problem is what the lying leads to. The question should be, would you rather be randomly beaten up or randomly raped? If you pose the question that way, ie accurately, it's more clear what you're discussing.

A new trend in Europe is "nationalists" creating neighbourhood watches. Soldiers of Odin is one of these. They've become guilty of attacking innocent people of dark complexion. Once they went on a rampage through Stockholm attacking random people who looked foreign. These types of crimes have gone up. Politically right wing parties have gotten an upsurge because of these lies. Probably Brexit happened because of this.

Per your last point of view, there are certainly problems with some Islamic societies that with the help of silent mainstream Muslims such as FMG, honour killings, and women's rights can be focused on.

Yes, and discussing these things are made more difficult when you give these people a bunch of straw men. Anybody spreading the idea that Muslim immigrants and Muslim refugees are more likely to be rapists, are making it easier for people committing FGM to get away with it. It's harder to discuss Islamic women's rights and honour killings.

We are getting ebbs and flows on white extremism. However they don't do well in the ballot box.
The point about Islamic societies, there are reformists (just like Christianity experienced) but they don't get much coverage. ISIS etc has free advertising 24/7

 

[DrZoidberg]

The problem isn't the lying. The problem is what the lying leads to. The question should be, would you rather be randomly beaten up or randomly raped? If you pose the question that way, ie accurately, it's more clear what you're discussing.

A new trend in Europe is "nationalists" creating neighbourhood watches. Soldiers of Odin is one of these. They've become guilty of attacking innocent people of dark complexion. Once they went on a rampage through Stockholm attacking random people who looked foreign. These types of crimes have gone up. Politically right wing parties have gotten an upsurge because of these lies. Probably Brexit happened because of this.



Yes, and discussing these things are made more difficult when you give these people a bunch of straw men. Anybody spreading the idea that Muslim immigrants and Muslim refugees are more likely to be rapists, are making it easier for people committing FGM to get away with it. It's harder to discuss Islamic women's rights and honour killings.

We are getting ebbs and flows on white extremism. However they don't do well in the ballot box.
The point about Islamic societies, there are reformists (just like Christianity experienced) but they don't get much coverage. ISIS etc has free advertising 24/7

Don't change the topic. You argued that people lying about Muslims raping women, or spreading false information, didn't have consequences. Well... it does.