Real life example: Was I racially discriminated against?

[Axulus]

A real life example of what I consider racial discrimination. I'm not particularly upset by it, but I felt a little slighted about it. Do you agree I was racially discriminated against?

I am a CPA and am opening up a retail cannabis shop. In my city, an owner of a grower/processor company is very active in the industry. She is part of an industry advocacy group (one that she started) and was looking for an additional person to sit on the board as a Treasurer. My business partner, also a CPA and of Chinese descent, was invited by her to join the board as the Treasurer. My business partner did not have time to make the commitment, but I potentially did. I told her that I might be interested in the position but she told me flat out that they were trying to have a variety of genders and ethnicities on their board, and that in particular they were seeking an Asian or other minority for the treasurer position.

In other words, she was unwilling to consider my qualifications and gauge my level of interest - all she needed to know was that I am a white male, and they already had the "white male" limit for their board.

Now, if I were to have felt more upset about it and complained about it more vocally, would I have been wrong to feel that way and complain about it since I have my white male privilege?

 

[Metaphor]

A real life example of what I consider racial discrimination. I'm not particularly upset by it, but I felt a little slighted about it. Do you agree I was racially discriminated against?

I am a CPA and am opening up a retail cannabis shop. In my city, an owner of a grower/processor company is very active in the industry. She is part of an industry advocacy group (one that she started) and was looking for an additional person to sit on the board as a Treasurer. My business partner, also a CPA and of Chinese descent, was invited by her to join the board as the Treasurer. My business partner did not have time to make the commitment, but I potentially did. I told her that I might be interested in the position but she told me flat out that they were trying to have a variety of genders and ethnicities on their board, and that in particular they were seeking an Asian or other minority for the treasurer position.

In other words, she was unwilling to consider my qualifications and gauge my level of interest - all she needed to know was that I am a white male, and they already had the "white male" limit for their board.

Now, if I were to have felt more upset about it and complained about it more vocally, would I have been wrong to feel that way and complain about it since I have my white male privilege?

It rather seems like a no-brainer that you were racially discriminated against, since you were flat out told you were unsuitable due to your race.

No-one but you can say how you feel about it, but I wager there will be plenty who reckon you should take it like water off a duck's back.

 

[Arctish]

Yes, you were discriminated against because of your race.

Now the next question is, is this a matter of a private individual having the right to hire the people she wants in the job (the same argument used in support of businesses that discriminate against gays), or a business that must comply with the anti-discrimination laws of your city or state, or a public institution that must act in the interests of the general population as best it can, even if that means selective hiring to achieve proportional representation and equality of opportunity among unequal applicants , i.e. the type of discrimination known as affirmative action?

 

[Bomb#20]

A real life example of what I consider racial discrimination. I'm not particularly upset by it, but I felt a little slighted about it. Do you agree I was racially discriminated against?

I am a CPA and am opening up a retail cannabis shop. In my city, an owner of a grower/processor company is very active in the industry. She is part of an industry advocacy group...

Now, if I were to have felt more upset about it and complained about it more vocally, would I have been wrong to feel that way and complain about it since I have my white male privilege?

Yes, no and no. But you might have been wrong to complain about it if Asianness was a relevant qualification. What exactly does an industry advocacy group do? What do they advocate and to whom do they advocate it? The government? And would the government officials who are empowered to decide whether to do whatever it is the group is advocating be more likely to do it if they perceive the advocacy group to have a variety of genders and ethnicities on their board?

(ETA: My late CPA was a total pothead. Is that, like, a thing? (And no, it didn't degrade her work. Probably helped.))

 

[Axulus]

Yes, you were discriminated against because of your race.

Now the next question is, is this a matter of a private individual having the right to hire the people she wants in the job (the same argument used in support of businesses that discriminate against gays), or a business that must comply with the anti-discrimination laws of your city or state, or a public institution that must act in the interests of the general population as best it can, even if that means selective hiring to achieve proportional representation and equality of opportunity among unequal applicants , i.e. the type of discrimination known as affirmative action?

It isn't a business. It is a private non-profit organization. The position wasn't an employment position either but rather a volunteer position. I suspect that their preference to have a diverse board and to disqualify some people once that gender and ethnicity is adequately represented on the board is not against my state's laws.

 

[Axulus]

A real life example of what I consider racial discrimination. I'm not particularly upset by it, but I felt a little slighted about it. Do you agree I was racially discriminated against?

I am a CPA and am opening up a retail cannabis shop. In my city, an owner of a grower/processor company is very active in the industry. She is part of an industry advocacy group...

Now, if I were to have felt more upset about it and complained about it more vocally, would I have been wrong to feel that way and complain about it since I have my white male privilege?

Yes, no and no. But you might have been wrong to complain about it if Asianness was a relevant qualification. What exactly does an industry advocacy group do? What do they advocate and to whom do they advocate it? The government? And would the government officials who are empowered to decide whether to do whatever it is the group is advocating be more likely to do it if they perceive the advocacy group to have a variety of genders and ethnicities on their board?

(ETA: My late CPA was a total pothead. Is that, like, a thing? (And no, it didn't degrade her work. Probably helped.))

Without giving identifying information, this organization is best described as a political lobbying group. It collects data of interest to the legal cannabis industry and then presents that information to state politicians to persuade them to support legislation that is supported by members of the group. I don't see how having additional white males on the board and no Asians will hinder this organization's effectiveness, provided that the white males were the most qualified among those interested in the position.

As far as CPAs and potheads goes, I can only speak for those I know in my home state - I have known many partners/owners of CPA firms either admit to their use in the present or at least to be accepting of those who do choose to use. I notice it tends to be more prevalent among CPAs under 50 or so. I'm not really sure if the amount of use is higher in the CPA profession than the state average or among other professions.

 

[Ford]

I told her that I might be interested in the position but she told me flat out that they were trying to have a variety of genders and ethnicities on their board, and that in particular they were seeking an Asian or other minority for the treasurer position.

My first impression upon reading this was "that's bullshit."


Meaning, I don't for one second believe that's what actually happened.


If it is, then my reaction would be the same. That's bullshit.

 

[Axulus]

I told her that I might be interested in the position but she told me flat out that they were trying to have a variety of genders and ethnicities on their board, and that in particular they were seeking an Asian or other minority for the treasurer position.

My first impression upon reading this was "that's bullshit."


Meaning, I don't for one second believe that's what actually happened.


If it is, then my reaction would be the same. That's bullshit.

Whether you believe me or not is ultimately irrelevant to the questions I ask - I stand by my experience as I've described it. Would you have the same level of skepticism about my story if I were black and the same thing happened?

 

[Ford]

My first impression upon reading this was "that's bullshit."


Meaning, I don't for one second believe that's what actually happened.


If it is, then my reaction would be the same. That's bullshit.

Whether you believe me or not is ultimately irrelevant to the questions I ask - I stand by my experience as I've described it. Would you have the same level of skepticism about my story if I were black and the same thing happened?

I refer you to my previous response.

 

[Horatio Parker]

How are they funded? Diversity is an issue in non-profit funding.

And, are board positions subject to discrimination laws? Sounds to me you were not invited. What's the etiquette for contacting an organization and offering yourself for a board position?

If you're really interested, tell them you'd be interested in serving on the board in any capacity. Then if Treasurer opens up, you can maybe slide over.

 

[dismal]

The reality in the current day is that most business want to have at least one woman and one black person on their board if for no other reason than if they don't they will get crap from activists. The pressure for non-profits is even higher.

It's certainly arguable that it's in the best interest of the organization not to get on the activist shit list, and it's not that they are discriminating against white males in the aggregate (they are just discriminating against you) if they already have 8 on the board and would rather add a minority than a ninth white male.

 

[ronburgundy]

Yes, it is racial discrimination.

It is essentially the same as if they wanted only white people on the board because it was to their advantage given the racist views of the people they need favors from, or are their customers, etc.. It is also like hiring a woman with big tits as a waitress. In all such cases an organization is hiring based upon catering to the preferences of their customers/collaborators related to race or other physical attributes.

Imagine a non-profit that has 10 reps who raise support and funds, and 9 of 10 of the rep "territories" are mostly white and 1 is mostly black. They hire 1 black for the mostly black area but refuse to consider blacks for any of the other 9 positions, even though 50% of the total applications are from blacks.
There is no ethical and ought to be no legal difference between this and your situation. In fact, if anything, this is more justified since the company is hiring in ratio to the population they are working with whereas in your case they are likely going for more diversity than actually exists in the population in the fashion of a Beneton ad.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

You have so much privilege that it is practically impossible for you to be discriminated against. Duh. Check yo privilege, white boy.

By the way I'm being sarcastic.

 

[arkirk]

Your position on cannabis in the past may have had something to do with it. I know white guys do a lot of pot too, but maybe they suspected you of ulterior motives.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I told her that I might be interested in the position but she told me flat out that they were trying to have a variety of genders and ethnicities on their board, and that in particular they were seeking an Asian or other minority for the treasurer position.

My first impression upon reading this was "that's bullshit."


Meaning, I don't for one second believe that's what actually happened.


If it is, then my reaction would be the same. That's bullshit.

It doesn't surprise me at all, the only thing unusual is that she told the truth.

Note that he said it was a volunteer position--thus he is not harmed (in the legal sense anyway) by being discriminated against. No harm, no damages in a lawsuit, he can't meaningfully sue, thus she doesn't have to hide the truth.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

My first impression upon reading this was "that's bullshit."


Meaning, I don't for one second believe that's what actually happened.


If it is, then my reaction would be the same. That's bullshit.

It doesn't surprise me at all, the only thing unusual is that she told the truth.

Note that he said it was a volunteer position--thus he is not harmed (in the legal sense anyway) by being discriminated against. No harm, no damages in a lawsuit, he can't meaningfully sue, thus she doesn't have to hide the truth.

if she had not said they were looking for a non-white person to fill the position, would you still see it as discrimination?

 

[Axulus]

Your position on cannabis in the past may have had something to do with it. I know white guys do a lot of pot too, but maybe they suspected you of ulterior motives.

This is completely incoherent. What position on cannabis in the past? My position has not changed.

 

[Axulus]

My first impression upon reading this was "that's bullshit."


Meaning, I don't for one second believe that's what actually happened.


If it is, then my reaction would be the same. That's bullshit.

It doesn't surprise me at all, the only thing unusual is that she told the truth.

Note that he said it was a volunteer position--thus he is not harmed (in the legal sense anyway) by being discriminated against. No harm, no damages in a lawsuit, he can't meaningfully sue, thus she doesn't have to hide the truth.

And even if there was a little bit of damage, I wouldn't have bothered to sue. The main reason I wanted to join was for the networking opportunities it would provide, but I also supported the goals of the organization.

The main reason I brought this thread up is that there seems to be a dismissive attitude from others from white men providing examples of discrimination they have experienced. I wanted to see how people viewed my experience.

 

[Axulus]

The reality in the current day is that most business want to have at least one woman and one black person on their board if for no other reason than if they don't they will get crap from activists. The pressure for non-profits is even higher.

It's certainly arguable that it's in the best interest of the organization not to get on the activist shit list, and it's not that they are discriminating against white males in the aggregate (they are just discriminating against you) if they already have 8 on the board and would rather add a minority than a ninth white male.

I agree. I don't really attribute ill motives to her decision. And I appreciated her being up front about it rather than waste both of our time on me pursing that position that I would ultimately be denied.

 

[Bronzeage]

My first impression upon reading this was "that's bullshit."


Meaning, I don't for one second believe that's what actually happened.


If it is, then my reaction would be the same. That's bullshit.

Whether you believe me or not is ultimately irrelevant to the questions I ask - I stand by my experience as I've described it. Would you have the same level of skepticism about my story if I were black and the same thing happened?

I'll call bullshit on the facts of the story. From my experience with volunteer organizations, the idea someone would turn down a volunteer who had the needed professional credentials, lacks credibility. Beyond that, to have such a situation land in your lap, which would give you an opportunity to demonstrate a clear case of discrimination, is just too convenient for belief. Topicality is always suspect.

We can construct an infinite number of hypothetical situations which can demonstrate anything we wish. It doesn't make an argument valid.

On the other hand, if your story is true, you should call her back and explain how the genetic difference in intelligence between whites and blacks makes you a superior candidate for the job. Don't forget to point out how silly she will look if scientific racism is ever proven to be true.