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“Revolution in Thought: A new look at determinism and free will"

Babies don’t have experience with different foods but that doesn’t mean they can’t taste or that their tastebuds aren’t working.
It doesn't mean they work just like an adult's though, either.
Paleaseeee! This is getting ridiculous!
Yes, intentionally so. I am using the exact same "reasoning" that you used to show that eyes are not sense organs. And, as you correctly observe, it is ridiculous.
 
There are no means or mechanisms by which instant vision could be possible. Light being radiated from stars simply cannot just be 'at the eye' without travel time.
You just don’t get why efferent vision makes it possible for the wavelength to be at the eye when the object is in one’s field of view.
 
 
Babies don’t have experience with different foods but that doesn’t mean they can’t taste or that their tastebuds aren’t working.
It doesn't mean they work just like an adult's though, either.
He never said they did. But they are in full working order.
Paleaseeee! This is getting ridiculous!
Yes, intentionally so. I am using the exact same "reasoning" that you used to show that eyes are not sense organs. And, as you correctly observe, it is ridiculous.
His observations were not ridiculous.
 
They are not slanderous just because Lessans observations contradict other claims.
You're right. They are slanderous because you are insulting the integrity of the people who are applying scientific rigour to their understanding of reality, while simulataneously refusing to apply similar rigour to your own.
You have no idea the rigor it took to make these claims so don’t tell me about integrity!
Your claim that scientists are not accepting Lessans's claims because they refuse to examine any claims that contradict current theory, is both untrue and insulting, and it defames the scientific community. So it is slander.
He never made this accusation but he knew that if he dared try, he would be looked at as a looney. In fact, challenging delayed vision is pretty much off the table.
The scientific community is not accepting Lessans's claims because they are NOT SCIENCE. As I just explained.
He was an observer and an astute one at that. He did not start out with a hypothesis therefore it was not his methodology. He was not looking for answers to anything but certain findings came to him after much thought and analysis. He also said his observations could be tested further.
 
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There are no means or mechanisms by which instant vision could be possible. Light being radiated from stars simply cannot just be 'at the eye' without travel time.
You just don’t get why efferent vision
Vision is afferent.
makes it possible for the wavelength to be at the eye
A length can’t be at the eye.
when the object is in one’s field of view.
Yes, when an object is in the “field of view,” we are seeing it as it was in the past.
 
They are not slanderous just because Lessans observations contradict other claims.
You're right. They are slanderous because you are insulting the integrity of the people who are applying scientific rigour to their understanding of reality, while simulataneously refusing to apply similar rigour to your own.
You have no idea the rigor it took to make these claims so don’t tell about integrity!
I have this entire thread as evidence.
Your claim that scientists are not accepting Lessans's claims because they refuse to examine any claims that contradict current theory, is both untrue and insulting, and it defames the scientific community. So it is slander.
He never made this accusation but he knew that if he dared try, he would be looked at as a looney.
YOU have repeatedly made this accusation in this very thread. And your hypothesis about how you are subsequently viewed has yet to be falsified.
In fact, challenging delayed vision is pretty much off the table.
The scientific community is not accepting Lessans's claims because they are NOT SCIENCE. As I just explained.
Challenging delayed vision is not "off the table", but it is contradicted by some extraordinary successful and well tested theories, and so requires an even more successful and well tested theory to replace it.

After almost three hundred years of success and rigourous testing, Newtonian optics and gravitation were tough to challenge; But Einstein did so, successfully. He did so by coming up with a theory that was just as successful as Newton's at predicting those things Newton was correct about, but which also successfully predicted things Newton's theory failed at (eg the precise orbit of Mercury).

If you (or Lessans) want to defeat current theory, all you need to do is one simple thing:

Explain what erroneous prediction of current theories this new idea (of how eyes work and what they do) resolves.

That's it. It's very much "on the table". It's been done before, by Einstein, and by others in various fields. You (or anyone) can do it again. All you need to do is explain what erroneous prediction of current theories this new idea (of how eyes work and what they do) resolves.
 
Newborns sense of smell is also in full working order.
 

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There are no means or mechanisms by which instant vision could be possible. Light being radiated from stars simply cannot just be 'at the eye' without travel time.
You just don’t get why efferent vision makes it possible for the wavelength to be at the eye when the object is in one’s field of view.


Vision is not efferent. The eye has evolved to detect and absorb light from the external world and its objects and events.
 
I'm trying to explain why it matters.
Yes, you are. But that's logically fallacious. We are trying to determine what is happening in reality; Whether reality suits our desires or aspirations, or whether it dashes our hopes and dreams, is of zero relevance to whether or not it is real.

What I am asking you to do is to explain what erroneous prediction of current theories this new idea (of how eyes work and what they do) resolves.
It resolves the problem of inferiority.
Are you saying that our ability to see what you write here makes you look inferior? ;)
To some people I may look that way, but no one is intrinsically inferior to anyone.
Seriously though, how is "the problem of inferiority" an erroneous prediction of current theories of how eyes work and what they do?
I don't get when you keep saying "an erroneous prediction." This is not about any prediction; it's about seeing reality for what it is. Current theories believe value exists in the light, and they will deny that it doesn't. Don't we see beauty and ugliness with our very eyes? This is exactly what Lessans disproves, and he shows how these words developed and why they don't symbolize reality, yet they have hurt so many by the false standards that have developed as a consequence.
You appear to have forgotton my question while formulating your answer; Again: What I am asking you to do is to explain what erroneous prediction of current theories this new idea (of how eyes work and what they do) resolves.

"The problem of inferiority" isn't a prediction of current theories of how eyes work and what you do, so your new idea cannot be intended to address that prediction.
I understand what you're trying to figure out, but the "erroneous prediction" of current theories that this new idea of how the eyes work resolves doesn't make sense. This new understanding, as I already mentioned, changes the wording we use so that people are not stratified into layers of value that DO NOT exist.
 
There are no means or mechanisms by which instant vision could be possible. Light being radiated from stars simply cannot just be 'at the eye' without travel time.
I'm sorry but this is false. Please keep in mind that he wasn't denying that light travels. But if the eyes are efferent (which means the brain is looking through the retina or eyes as a window), the wavelength would be at the eye if the object was in our field of view. Why do we not see an object when it is beyond our field of view? Because it is too far away or too small to be seen. If the light was traveling to our eyes, we would continue to see the object, but light disperses and when this occurs, we can no longer see said object.
 
Babies don’t have experience with different foods but that doesn’t mean they can’t taste or that their tastebuds aren’t working.
It doesn't mean they work just like an adult's though, either.
Science says that newborns can taste. Obviously, they can't taste the same as an adult because they were just born, but this has nothing to do with whether their tastebuds are in full working order.
Paleaseeee! This is getting ridiculous!
Yes, intentionally so. I am using the exact same "reasoning" that you used to show that eyes are not sense organs. And, as you correctly observe, it is ridiculous.
Now who is slandering whom? :(
 
I'm trying to explain why it matters.
Yes, you are. But that's logically fallacious. We are trying to determine what is happening in reality; Whether reality suits our desires or aspirations, or whether it dashes our hopes and dreams, is of zero relevance to whether or not it is real.

What I am asking you to do is to explain what erroneous prediction of current theories this new idea (of how eyes work and what they do) resolves.
It resolves the problem of inferiority.
Are you saying that our ability to see what you write here makes you look inferior? ;)

Seriously though, how is "the problem of inferiority" an erroneous prediction of current theories of how eyes work and what they do?

You appear to have forgotton my question while formulating your answer; Again: What I am asking you to do is to explain what erroneous prediction of current theories this new idea (of how eyes work and what they do) resolves.

"The problem of inferiority" isn't a prediction of current theories of how eyes work and what you do, so your new idea cannot be intended to address that prediction.
This is not about erroneous predictions from the present theories. It’s not about prediction at all.
Then it's not science at all.

You appear to have only the vaguest notion of what science is, or does.

And of course, it is about prediction. You are predicting that if an object is large enough and luminous enough, it will be visible instantaneously regardless of its distance from us.
That is true, but it isn't about prediction at all. It is either true or not.
Traditional optics (and other fields of physics, such as relativity) predict that any information about any event will take time to travel from the source, to the observer; And that the maximum speed of that information is that of electromagnetic radiation (of which light is a part) in a vacuum.

What I am asking you to do is to explain what erroneous prediction of current theories this new idea (of how eyes work and what they do) resolves.

I am asking you this, because this is the centrepiece of any and all scientific investigation of the real world. New ideas supplant old ideas if, and only if, they make more accurate predictions about what we will observe than the old ideas made.
Again, this has nothing to do with prediction yet it is correct in its analysis.
Any other approach to finding out how reality really is, fails. We use science, not because we love it, or have faith in it, or trust it; But because it works. Science puts men on the Moon. Faith flies them into skyscrapers.
Faith has nothing to do with this discovery.
 
It’s so obvious that something is amiss.
And that would be what? :rolleyes:

The eye is a complex sense organ that takes time to develop. Other senses are not so complex. By your “logic,” something obviously is amiss that a baby does not come out of the womb a fully grown adult. Ergo, babies are not humans. By your “logic” something is obviously amiss that babies’ hands are so tiny, they cannot really grasp or manipulate things. Ergo, hands are not hands, but something else. Efferent hands, maybe? :rolleyes:
You are wrong about so many things in this book, you will never understand it. All of the other sense organs are in full working order at birth.
How could we possibly know this?

Do you remember how things tasted when you were born? Did you even taste many things in your first few weeks of life? Most babies don't get to try spicy curries, so how do you know that they can taste them?

Most parts of a newborn baby are underdeveloped. Their sence of balance is woeful, and they are therefore rarely seen walking, running, or riding a bicycle.
Stop bringing in things that don't relate. SCIENCE SAYS: BABIES CAN TASTE WHEN BORN. Go argue with the scientists, not me.
 
I could say the same thing about your inability to recognize your false statements. You have made up your mind he’s wrong so there’s nowhere for me to go.
Sure there is. You just need to explain what erroneous prediction of current theories this new idea (of how eyes work and what they do) resolves.

Do that, and I shall happily accept that he is right. But you actually have to do it, not just whinge about how unfair it is that he is being held to the exact same standard as everyone else with an idea.
This does not explain "what erroneous prediction of current theories this new idea resolves." In fact, it doesn't make predictions at all. I don't understand why you don't get this. :confused2:
 
Stop bringing in things that don't relate. SCIENCE SAYS: BABIES CAN TASTE WHEN BORN. Go argue with the scientists, not me.

Yeah, and they can see, smell, hear, etc. at birth, only their eyes, being more complex, need more time to develop! I mean, really! The baby is really tiny at birth, too — does that mean it’s not human? Babies’ hand are really tiny and can’t do much — does that mean they’re not hands?? Do you have any idea how utterly cringeworthy this nonsense you are spouting is? Rhetorical question. :rolleyes:
 
There are no means or mechanisms by which instant vision could be possible. Light being radiated from stars simply cannot just be 'at the eye' without travel time.
You just don’t get why efferent vision
Vision is afferent.
makes it possible for the wavelength to be at the eye
A length can’t be at the eye.
when the object is in one’s field of view.
Yes, when an object is in the “field of view,” we are seeing it as it was in the past.
No we are not. If we were, we would see the image without a telescope. We would see the image coming to us years later, but as was written in an encyclopedia many years ago: If we were on the star Rigel, we would just be seeing Columbus discovering America. Doesn't that sound odd to you, or are you so brainwashed, you can no longer see truth from fiction.
 
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