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Right Wing Diehards, Should I Be Worried?

 
 
 
T

T.G.G. Moogly

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Politics is politics, we all know that. I used to think Barry Goldwater was crazy but by today's standards he was quite sane. That doesn't mean I agree with him politically, just that I found him at the time a little too much of an idealogue, same for Reagan.

But neither of those gents were kooky is a psychological sense. Yes, Nancy Reagan was out there with her astrology and Reagan was overly religious for me, but they weren't advocating QAnon cabal and election fraud idiocy like today's GOP. They were satisfied with democracy even if their party didn't always win elections.

So is today's GOP nuts? Or is is just politics as usual, in a way a good thing, keeping democrats honest, an arms struggle in a sense?
 
If Reagan, Barry & the general public had access to twitter and posted everyday around that time it'd be just as crazy as it is now. I found that as long as I ignore the internet there is not a disturbance of peace around every corner.
 
That McCarthy met with Trump is very troublesome. It means an absolute embrace of the leaderless / pointless right-wing populist movement.

To make matters worse, even in a pandemic and economic collapse, the GOP is obstructing the moderate Democrat President. Biden currently only has four mainstream, non-controversial cabinet members approved. They barely had any hearings before inauguration!

And the messaging is disturbing... everyone in the GOP these days castigates the Democrats, any Democrat, as a socialist... a clear escalation of hyperbolic nonsense.
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
So is today's GOP nuts? Or is is just politics as usual, in a way a good thing, keeping democrats honest, an arms struggle in a sense?
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i don't think it's either - i think that conservatism as an ideology is and always has been fucking cancer to the core concept of human civilization, but the big change that has happened in the last 40 years is the shift on the right from "governing from a position of conservative ideology" to "the very idea of there even being a government is fundamentally wrong and our goal is to destroy it."

the right is trying to disrupt and dismantle the very concept of government. everything they do is an action towards this goal, which explains pretty much everything about the GOP since the late 70s.
they aren't trying to 'keep the democrats honest' so much as they're trying to stop anything the democrats do regardless of what it is or what it does because the democrats are trying to partake in a functioning civil government.
 
I would be more worried about the Leftists.

The far right extremists are beaten down right now while the Far Left extremists are emboldened by the inactions of local governments to fight against them, especially in lefty cities like Portland or Seattle. They see themselves as being invulnerable no matter what they do. They have been rioting, burning down buildings, looting stores, attacking and vandalizing police stations, courthouses and other government buildings and even occupying territory with very little cost since local DAs have been dismissing vast majority of cases against people arrested during these riots.
The reaction to right wing riots in Charlottesville and DC is diametrically opposite - very aggressive prosecutions to the fullest extent of the law instead of DAs like Mike Schmidt taking the side of rioters.
 
The Republicans have schemed for years to rule as a minority party, but this year they reached the limits of that approach, and they are now ready to take down our system of electing our leaders. You can't call it anything else when a preponderance of D.C. Repubs voted to overturn the results of Nov. 2 and will not now admit that Biden won fair and square.
Unity? With a party so constituted? Biden will find out soon, if he doesn't know it now, that this is a false hope.
So -- how do you deal with a party like today's GOP? You keep it boxed into Trump numbers (high 40s at best) and you publicize its anti-democratic scheming relentlessly -- and you let it push itself into defeat after defeat. The GOP will never reform unless it loses enough national and hopefully state & local elections that it realizes it has to kick out its zanies. It shouldn't take a lot of intelligence to see how corrupt and deceitful Trump is. We'll have to forget about the solid Trump base, the 33% that can't be reached ever, by any amount of reason. It's the add-ons, the "independents" who were cozened along by arguments that Trump was a great businessman and, look here, he got the economy moving, didn't he?, that Trump had to have to get his electoral majority in '16. That population needs to be messaged over and over about the overt assault Republicans have made on rule by consent of the governed. I can't believe we're ready to throw that away so that the GOP can coddle their donor class.
 
3AM Saturday morning. Watching something about the Donner Party on The Weather Channel. I thought it a bit disturbing with its focus on children. I turned to CNN and they were discussing Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Facebook page and thought, this is even worse.
 
Derec said:
I would be more worried about the Leftists.
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worried about them doing what, exactly?
very mildly improving social welfare systems and incrementally expanding access to healthcare while sort of shuffling in the general direction of enhancing the rights and opportunities of the lower and middle class, all while juggling moderately ineffectual but mostly harmless government that tries to promote the forward advancement of human civilization?
i guess you might also have to deal with an incredibly weak aversion to overt systemic racism and institutional privilege, but quite frankly if those are values you hold dearly you can walk right out into traffic and play a rousing game of hide-and-go-fuck-yourself.
 
Derec said:
the Far Left extremists
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i know this is going to fall on deaf ears so i don't know why i bother with this, but... 'far left extremists' do not exist in the US, full stop.
not in the broader culture, not in little pockets secreted throughout the country, and sure as shit not even close to any official governmental position.

the moderate leftish center that exists in the US is toothless and without agenda or purpose other than as a mild reaction to outright fascism coming from the right.
if you really want to stop the US political left all you need do is stop the hayseeds being outwardly bigoted shitheads in public, and things will quickly go back to the placid pro-corporate status quo.
 
First of all, comparing Barry Goldwater to today's Republioturds is like comparing a pussy-cat to a rattlesnake. Goldwater had more integrity and more humanity in his little finger than the entire GOP has today.

Goldwater was a life-time member of the NAACP; he helped integrate Arizona schools BEFORE Brown v. Board. His views evolved over the years — unlike today's Republioturds who can't "evolve" their thinking because they don't think at all — he was eventually in favor of gay rights, women's rights and legal marijuana. And he always opposed the sale of semi-automatic rifles.

Yes, Goldwater was considered an extreme right-winger 60 years ago. Comparing that with his actual views — and more importantly with his integrity, authentic patriotism, and humane values — just shows what the GOP has become today.

The phrase "Right-wing diehards" in thread's title does injustice to real right-wing diehards like Goldwater. The Proud Boys, FoxNews and GOP are united by hatred, hypocrisy and criminality. It is playing into their hands to pretend they have a political ideology. As for the question in thread's title "Should I be worried?" the answer is Yes. Tens of millions of Americans are infected with Republioturd hatreds and ignorance, and are continually being deluded by Internet liars. Beyond dropping bombs on Facebook HQ as a starting point, I have no solution to offer. American democracy, in the form we oldsters are familiar with, will not survive. Recent reports confirm that Trump was almost a hand-picked stooge of Vladimir Putin, yet hardly anyone cares.

It would be interesting to look for historical precedent. Richard Nixon, a known criminal and bigot, would be a better example than Goldwater, but Nixon was hardly the first President to engage in criminality (at least in the benign "rat-fucking" form) or in bigotry.

I'm no historian, so the only incident that comes to mind for me is the 1856 near-fatal bludgeoning of Senator Sumner (R-Mass) by Congressman Brooks (D - SC). This attempted murder was applauded throughout the South! (Today there is at least one Congresswoman threatening to kill fellow Congresspeople.)

An oft-overlooked historical detail is that the " Pottawatomie Massacre" began just one day after, and was an escalation in response to, the bludgeoning of Senator Sumner. Those executions, led by John Brown, were to punish ruffians who themselves had abetted the murders of anti-slavery Kansas settlers. Arguably, it was an act of justice; yet John Brown is often condemned while Brooks was never prosecuted.

(John Brown is my nomination to replace Jackson on the $20 bill! I am proud that he is my close blood relative.)
 
Thanks for the stats on Goldwater, it shows just how fucked up the GOP has become. Racism was always there but overt supremacism has become the norm in the GOP.

Republicans are still democratic but they do not believe in individual rights, instead preferring authoritarianism, which is why they admire Putin. I think they prefer the Chinese communist system with equal delight except that the chinese are chinks and slants, not white folk.

The most interesting aspect of this GOP phenomenon is however how easily they are taken in with conspiracy thinking. For me that's simply a symptom of scientific illiteracy, something that has become a problem in the U.S.
 
TGG said:
The most interesting aspect of this GOP phenomenon is however how easily they are taken in with conspiracy thinking. For me that's simply a symptom of scientific illiteracy, something that has become a problem in the U.S.
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The rubes, yes. The decades-long GOP anti-education campaign is paying off for the 'pugs.
But their elected officials are another story. They are willfully hypocritical, knowing liars.

IMG_E7080[1].JPG
 
Angry Floof said:
They're stepping up the crazy. These nutbags are soon going to be straight up murdering people in the street for wearing a mask or saying the name of whoever they consider to be a traitor this week.

Youtube video: Politico Reporter Shares Her Experience Covering An Anti-Liz Cheney Rally | Deadline | MSNBC

Not only is the current GOP okay with this, they are encouraging it every time they repeat a lie or excuse Trump.
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Not hard to believe, republicans like to be threatening, and is how they think they control things. Treat them like threatening dogs, don't let them bite or even intimidate, don't be afraid to punch back hard. That's the take-home lesson.
 
Angry Floof said:
They're stepping up the crazy. These nutbags are soon going to be straight up murdering people in the street for wearing a mask or saying the name of whoever they consider to be a traitor this week.

Youtube video: Politico Reporter Shares Her Experience Covering An Anti-Liz Cheney Rally | Deadline | MSNBC

Not only is the current GOP okay with this, they are encouraging it every time they repeat a lie or excuse Trump.
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If you'd told me 6 or 7 years ago that Liz Cheney would be a sober voice of reason who was being pushed out of the party because she's not nuts enough?

I'd ask when the reactor accident that threw us into an alternate reality was going to happen.
 
They're off the leash thanks to Trump. They are every compulsion and stupidity in the vast repertoire of human thought and behavior set loose, relieved of conscience and cooperation.

I've been mulling about this for years now. For most of us, creativity (as in creative problem solving and decision making as well as general creativity) is a matter of being open to possibilities and new ideas. The more open and unrestrained you are in your creative efforts, whether brainstorming or painting, the more ideas and connections come to you, thus more possibilities for solutions and invention.

But when you're more the closed, narrow minded kind of mentality, and events unfold in ways that push you back into more closed and narrow thinking, you kind of become dumber in a very real sense. Closing off possibilities means closing off opportunities and ideas and creative solutions.

So previously I just assumed that this kind of mentality was just kind of dumb and mean and not good at solving real problems and there wasn't much more to it than that. But the last five years have shown that there IS a kind of counterpart to wide open creativity in right wing mentality run amok - when the last vestige of conscience is forfeited in favor of the thrill of riding the wild coattails of an utterly conscienceless strong man leader type who hijacks your fears and prejudices and then promises you relief and reward in giving the finger to everyone else, that truly does blow open the doors of possibility, only it's the kind of possibility that includes murdering whoever the revered strong man tells you should be murdered.

That's gotta be a massive and thrilling sense of liberation and endless possibilities in how you can beat and carve up the world to your liking. It's also evil in action.
 
In Gerald Ford's retirement years, he granted confidential interviews to reporter Thomas DeFrank, which became the book Write It When I'm Gone. Ford looked at the GOP in the Newt years -- Contract with America, radicalized opposition to Clinton, etc. etc., and realized that he had no place in it and that the kind of politician he had been would no longer fit in the party. Who knows what he'd think today. Obviously, Mitt Romney no longer fits, and John McCain wouldn't either. The high tide of lies and stupidity has generated an enormous amount of sheer hatred in the base.
Case in point: Sarah Palin. She's using my guest room this weekend. We were watching MSNBC, and there was a long piece on Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Palee got visibly upset. (I call her Palee.) She started writing something on her hand. Then, pointing her hand at the TV (so she could read her hand) she said, "And they called me dumb!! I betcha someone knocked that buck-toothed cooze on the head with a two by four. What a moron. I betcha she can't read!" She told me she'd have to 'dumb it down' to run for office as a Republican, and she just wouldn't compromise to that extent.
Go figure. BTW, Palee is noisy at night. Stays up till all hours and sings to herself. I'm going to tell her she has to go tomorrow. She did pay for the Pizza Hut delivery, but girl gotta go.
 
Angry Floof said:
They're off the leash thanks to Trump. They are every compulsion and stupidity in the vast repertoire of human thought and behavior set loose, relieved of conscience and cooperation.

I've been mulling about this for years now. For most of us, creativity (as in creative problem solving and decision making as well as general creativity) is a matter of being open to possibilities and new ideas. The more open and unrestrained you are in your creative efforts, whether brainstorming or painting, the more ideas and connections come to you, thus more possibilities for solutions and invention.

But when you're more the closed, narrow minded kind of mentality, and events unfold in ways that push you back into more closed and narrow thinking, you kind of become dumber in a very real sense. Closing off possibilities means closing off opportunities and ideas and creative solutions.

So previously I just assumed that this kind of mentality was just kind of dumb and mean and not good at solving real problems and there wasn't much more to it than that. But the last five years have shown that there IS a kind of counterpart to wide open creativity in right wing mentality run amok - when the last vestige of conscience is forfeited in favor of the thrill of riding the wild coattails of an utterly conscienceless strong man leader type who hijacks your fears and prejudices and then promises you relief and reward in giving the finger to everyone else, that truly does blow open the doors of possibility, only it's the kind of possibility that includes murdering whoever the revered strong man tells you should be murdered.

That's gotta be a massive and thrilling sense of liberation and endless possibilities in how you can beat and carve up the world to your liking. It's also evil in action.
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My only hope is that this has shown how malleable this whole society is. Maybe it can morph back into a more congenial form if conditions change. Hoping just getting a functional government back in place would have some effect, but that's doubtful.
Maybe it means a small-medium sized bloodbath - Dear Leader once said that 1-200,000 dead would be a "very good job". Sure, bloody trauma is more unseemly than quietly croaking in a hospital bed, but perhaps the shock value therein would be the catalyst for a changed condition.
Over 2800 people were killed today by Covid-19, just like any other recent day. Imagine if more than 2800 people were gunned down, blown up, run over or burned to death every day for a few months... what effect would that have? It probably depends on who was getting gunned down, blown up, run over or burned.
:shrug:
 
Back in 2016, a lot of ink was spilled worrying about what a Trump presidency could lead to. But the pundits completely missed the most dangerous result.

It was assumed that terrible things would happen, in rational pursuit of bigoted but comprehensible goals. Yet what has actually happened is far worse; Rationality has been completely abandoned.

The GOP platform in 2020 was not to have a platform at all. They have no comprehensible goals, bigoted or otherwise. The only things that can be pinned down as policy are the pursuit of power (which is reasonable as a means, but futile without something to use that power for); And a vague desire to "own the libs". That is to say that the only raison d'être of today's Republican party is to make their opponents suffer. They don't care two shits whether this implies that they too will suffer, the suffering of their enemies is the entire goal.

This is, of course, literally insane. Dangerously, criminally, insane. To these people there exist no facts, and no realities; Only opinions, all of which are equally valid and important. And their sole objective is to make clear that they have counter-opinions for any and every fact that their opponents attempt to elevate above mere opinion.

If "the libs" say that people are at risk from a deadly pandemic, then it immediately becomes the duty of the Trump camp to declare that no such risk exists, and to actively oppose any attempt to act in mitigation of that risk. The existence or otherwise of the risk is of zero relevance, all that matters is that denying it will upset "the libs", and it is so vitally important that "the libs" should be upset, that it is worth dying in order to do so.

If a single, non-wealthy and non-powerful individual had expressed such a position as little as five years ago, that would have been grounds for their committal to a psychiatric institution. But today, it's considered a mainstream political position.

The lunatics haven't taken over the asylum; They've taken over the nation. And they are prepared to stage a coup d'état in order to maintain their control.

That remains the reality, too. The failure of their pre-inaugural attack on the capitol isn't the end, it's just the beginning. Setbacks that would give rational people pause do nothing to influence those for whom facts and reality are mere options.

To treat this insanity as though it were merely a difference of political philosophy, to be resolved through compromise, bipartisanship, and unity, is to make a grave error. You can't negotiate with a lunatic. You can't reason with the irrational. They see any attempt to do so as weakness, to be exploited in their constant struggle to make "the libs" suffer.

In 2001, the strategies for dealing with airline hijacking assumed a hijacker who wanted to survive his criminal endeavour. It was expected that the perpetrators of such acts would behave in accordance with that rational objective, regardless of any other objectives in committing their crime. That assumption of rationality was, as we all know, shattered by the events of September 11.

The events of January 6, 2021, should similarly shatter assumptions of political rationality from Trump's supporters. If the outdated strategy of bipartisanship is adopted in the post 6-1 landscape, the consequences will be horrific.

Yes, you should be worried. Perhaps verging on terrified.
 
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