Riots in the UK

[marc]

Haven't seem much mention of this in US news. Not long ago a teenager using a knife attacked a dance studio, killing three kids and injuring many more. The right wing has latched onto the story, claiming it was an undocumented muslim immigrant. It wasn't. The boy's parents are from Rwanda I hear, but he was born in Wales, and is not muslim. But when has the right let facts get in the way of some good old fearmongering? In multiple cities over the weekend there has been rioting, looting, a library set on fire, attempts to break into a hotel that is used by asylum seekers, and set fire to it. There have been some counter protests denouncing fascism. NYT on some of the people behind the riots

 

[bilby]

The BBC take on this conforms with my understanding, which is that the far-right nationalist thugs have been both emboldened by Brexit, and infuriated by the fact that Brexit has completely failed to result in a massive reduction in the number of people with black and brown skin living in the UK.

Of course, you would have to be a total fucking idiot to think that leaving a European Economic and Political administration would lead to the departure from the UK of UK citizens who had grandparents or great-grandparents from the Carribean or the Indian subcontinent.

The two concepts are completely unrelated, other than in the pathetic "reasoning" of white supremacist morons to whom the world is divided into "Real English People" and "Foreigners", with the latter being an undifferentiated mass of evil, poisoning the efforts of the former to restore a world that never existed, wherein being a white, English, football-loving skinhead was an automatic ticket to success and respect.

The putative "cause" of this violence, attacks by Muslim boat-people against English children, are fictional; But the rioters neither know nor care. They get their "information", along with their coordination, from rightwing websites that make the Daily Mail look like paragons of tolerance and kindness.

These thugs may wear England football shirts, rather than brown ones; But their tactics and aims would be completely unsurprising to the leaders of the SA in the 1920s and early '30s.

 

[Tigers!]

Haven't seem much mention of this in US news.

At the risk of being facetious I am not surprised that you yanks have not heard much of this. Only the US counts and all that.

Not long ago a teenager using a knife attacked a dance studio, killing three kids and injuring many more. The right wing has latched onto the story, claiming it was an undocumented muslim immigrant. It wasn't. The boy's parents are from Rwanda I hear, but he was born in Wales, and is not muslim. But when has the right let facts get in the way of some good old fearmongering? In multiple cities over the weekend there has been rioting, looting, a library set on fire, attempts to break into a hotel that is used by asylum seekers, and set fire to it. There have been some counter protests denouncing fascism. NYT on some of the people behind the riots

Lack of information, misleading information abounds. And people are just stupid.

 

[barbos]

I understand that british "free" "press" has already blamed russians for all of that.

 

[scombrid]

The BBC take on this conforms with my understanding, which is that the far-right nationalist thugs have been both emboldened by Brexit, and infuriated by the fact that Brexit has completely failed to result in a massive reduction in the number of people with black and brown skin living in the UK.

Of course, you would have to be a total fucking idiot to think that leaving a European Economic and Political administration would lead to the departure from the UK of UK citizens who had grandparents or great-grandparents from the Carribean or the Indian subcontinent.

The two concepts are completely unrelated, other than in the pathetic "reasoning" of white supremacist morons to whom the world is divided into "Real English People" and "Foreigners", with the latter being an undifferentiated mass of evil, poisoning the efforts of the former to restore a world that never existed, wherein being a white, English, football-loving skinhead was an automatic ticket to success and respect.

The putative "cause" of this violence, attacks by Muslim boat-people against English children, are fictional; But the rioters neither know nor care. They get their "information", along with their coordination, from rightwing websites that make the Daily Mail look like paragons of tolerance and kindness.

These thugs may wear England football shirts, rather than brown ones; But their tactics and aims would be completely unsurprising to the leaders of the SA in the 1920s and early '30s.

Nice synopsis. I opened this thread to make the sarcastic comment that I reckoned that Brexit had failed to give them the promised white utopia with jobs galore. Your summation covers that well.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Haven't seem much mention of this in US news.

At the risk of being facetious I am not surprised that you yanks have not heard much of this. Only the US counts and all that.

General Election. Biden dropping out and Harris replacing him was somewhat of a historically unique moment. That comes off of the attempted assassination of Donald Trump! So while America has a tendency to not notice other countries exist, this time around we have an excuse.

Not long ago a teenager using a knife attacked a dance studio, killing three kids and injuring many more. The right wing has latched onto the story, claiming it was an undocumented muslim immigrant. It wasn't. The boy's parents are from Rwanda I hear, but he was born in Wales, and is not muslim. But when has the right let facts get in the way of some good old fearmongering? In multiple cities over the weekend there has been rioting, looting, a library set on fire, attempts to break into a hotel that is used by asylum seekers, and set fire to it. There have been some counter protests denouncing fascism. NYT on some of the people behind the riots

Lack of information, misleading information abounds. And people are just stupid.

These were the acts of violent fascist militants. This has nothing to do with intelligence, it has everything to do with fascist populism and seizing control through violence.

ETA: I really wanted to add a little more on this "stupid" shit. The people that rioted on January 6th were generally white collar management types. They weren't knuckle dragging Mississippi Burning local yokels. These people are not "stupid". When it comes to politics they are clueless, but to simplify their violence and disregard for democracy simply as being stupid is a trap (intentional by some?). Being violent doesn't default one to being stupid. It defaults them to be violent and dangerous.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Haven't seem much mention of this in US news. Not long ago a teenager using a knife attacked a dance studio, killing three kids and injuring many more. The right wing has latched onto the story, claiming it was an undocumented muslim immigrant. It wasn't. The boy's parents are from Rwanda I hear, but he was born in Wales, and is not muslim.

Note that being born in the UK isn't all that relevant if the problem is Islam. All too many of the recruits are unhappy children of mildly Muslim parents. The radicalizers play on the supposed lapses of the parents and that radical Islam is the path to fixing things.

 

[Tigers!]

Haven't seem much mention of this in US news.

At the risk of being facetious I am not surprised that you yanks have not heard much of this. Only the US counts and all that.

General Election. Biden dropping out and Harris replacing him was somewhat of a historically unique moment. That comes off of the attempted assassination of Donald Trump! So while America has a tendency to not notice other countries exist, this time around we have an excuse.

Not long ago a teenager using a knife attacked a dance studio, killing three kids and injuring many more. The right wing has latched onto the story, claiming it was an undocumented muslim immigrant. It wasn't. The boy's parents are from Rwanda I hear, but he was born in Wales, and is not muslim. But when has the right let facts get in the way of some good old fearmongering? In multiple cities over the weekend there has been rioting, looting, a library set on fire, attempts to break into a hotel that is used by asylum seekers, and set fire to it. There have been some counter protests denouncing fascism. NYT on some of the people behind the riots

Lack of information, misleading information abounds. And people are just stupid.

These were the acts of violent fascist militants. This has nothing to do with intelligence, it has everything to do with fascist populism and seizing control through violence.

The police took too long to say that the killer/suspect in custody was not a Muslim nor an immigrant. They did not need to name them. It is that tardiness or lack of information that encourages misinformation to propagate and fester. No excuse for the violence but let us not give such persons an excuse.

 

[bilby]

Haven't seem much mention of this in US news. Not long ago a teenager using a knife attacked a dance studio, killing three kids and injuring many more. The right wing has latched onto the story, claiming it was an undocumented muslim immigrant. It wasn't. The boy's parents are from Rwanda I hear, but he was born in Wales, and is not muslim.

Note that being born in the UK isn't all that relevant if the problem is Islam. All too many of the recruits are unhappy children of mildly Muslim parents. The radicalizers play on the supposed lapses of the parents and that radical Islam is the path to fixing things.

Note that being NOT A MUSLIM is a big factor in the problem NOT being Islam, but rather irrational Islamophobia that believes everyone who is not as lily-white as the driven snow must be a muslim, in the absurd basis that if you are not "one of us", you are "one of them".

 

[bilby]

Haven't seem much mention of this in US news.

At the risk of being facetious I am not surprised that you yanks have not heard much of this. Only the US counts and all that.

General Election. Biden dropping out and Harris replacing him was somewhat of a historically unique moment. That comes off of the attempted assassination of Donald Trump! So while America has a tendency to not notice other countries exist, this time around we have an excuse.

Not long ago a teenager using a knife attacked a dance studio, killing three kids and injuring many more. The right wing has latched onto the story, claiming it was an undocumented muslim immigrant. It wasn't. The boy's parents are from Rwanda I hear, but he was born in Wales, and is not muslim. But when has the right let facts get in the way of some good old fearmongering? In multiple cities over the weekend there has been rioting, looting, a library set on fire, attempts to break into a hotel that is used by asylum seekers, and set fire to it. There have been some counter protests denouncing fascism. NYT on some of the people behind the riots

Lack of information, misleading information abounds. And people are just stupid.

These were the acts of violent fascist militants. This has nothing to do with intelligence, it has everything to do with fascist populism and seizing control through violence.

The police took too long to say that the killer/suspect in custody was not a Muslim nor an immigrant. They did not need to name them. It is that tardiness or lack of information that encourages misinformation to propagate and fester. No excuse for the violence but let us not give such persons an excuse.

That's absurd. Police are not obliged to identify suspects, nor to provide any broad information about them; And as there is "no excuse for the violence", there CANNOT be any way to "give such persons an excuse".

Such persons will invent a pretext for violence if one is not forthcoming - as indeed they did. No statement by the police would have stopped them; If the police had explicitly said that the arrestee was not a Muslim, the idiots would have simply said that they were lying in order to prevent a violent response.

 

[barbos]

That's absurd. Police are not obliged to identify suspects, nor to provide any broad information about them;

Ideally yes. But british police in the past was not clean in dealing with immigrant related crimes, so it's understandable that people wanted to know.

 

[Jarhyn]

Holy shit GB is racist as fuck though, by in large. The worst part is that they pretend they aren't, and they possibly can't even see it at all instead saying that all the countries whose citizens point it out from across whatever body of it water have "racism on the brain" or whatever.

It strikes me as much like the US but without a big "coming to the truth" moment: they were never forced to really pick a part racism and cop to it the way the US did after the civil war. The US didn't even do a very good job of that, TBH. We went over the entire problem with a fine tooth comb though, at least in the US, and came away from that with a much more holistic understanding and examination of racism.

From that perspective, someone from the US is generally going to be far more qualified to identify it, and far more accurate when they do.

Without that kind of moment in a country's past the potential for being self-aware about such issues decreases sharply. And so we end up with a country where shitheels like Sargon of Akkad can spin vile racism as they do all the while claiming there's nothing racist about it.

Seriously, I feel bad for them, and would hope they get even the slightest bit of self awareness to understand that blaming "boat people" is almost always a cover for people on the right wing trying to rob everyone blind.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Haven't seem much mention of this in US news.

At the risk of being facetious I am not surprised that you yanks have not heard much of this. Only the US counts and all that.

General Election. Biden dropping out and Harris replacing him was somewhat of a historically unique moment. That comes off of the attempted assassination of Donald Trump! So while America has a tendency to not notice other countries exist, this time around we have an excuse.

Not long ago a teenager using a knife attacked a dance studio, killing three kids and injuring many more. The right wing has latched onto the story, claiming it was an undocumented muslim immigrant. It wasn't. The boy's parents are from Rwanda I hear, but he was born in Wales, and is not muslim. But when has the right let facts get in the way of some good old fearmongering? In multiple cities over the weekend there has been rioting, looting, a library set on fire, attempts to break into a hotel that is used by asylum seekers, and set fire to it. There have been some counter protests denouncing fascism. NYT on some of the people behind the riots

Lack of information, misleading information abounds. And people are just stupid.

These were the acts of violent fascist militants. This has nothing to do with intelligence, it has everything to do with fascist populism and seizing control through violence.

The police took too long to say that the killer/suspect in custody was not a Muslim nor an immigrant. They did not need to name them. It is that tardiness or lack of information that encourages misinformation to propagate and fester. No excuse for the violence but let us not give such persons an excuse.

I'm a Yank, so I'm unfamiliar with the British Law that compels the Police to identify the national citizenship and religion of a minor suspected of committing a crime.

 

[barbos]

Haven't seem much mention of this in US news.

At the risk of being facetious I am not surprised that you yanks have not heard much of this. Only the US counts and all that.

General Election. Biden dropping out and Harris replacing him was somewhat of a historically unique moment. That comes off of the attempted assassination of Donald Trump! So while America has a tendency to not notice other countries exist, this time around we have an excuse.

Not long ago a teenager using a knife attacked a dance studio, killing three kids and injuring many more. The right wing has latched onto the story, claiming it was an undocumented muslim immigrant. It wasn't. The boy's parents are from Rwanda I hear, but he was born in Wales, and is not muslim. But when has the right let facts get in the way of some good old fearmongering? In multiple cities over the weekend there has been rioting, looting, a library set on fire, attempts to break into a hotel that is used by asylum seekers, and set fire to it. There have been some counter protests denouncing fascism. NYT on some of the people behind the riots

Lack of information, misleading information abounds. And people are just stupid.

These were the acts of violent fascist militants. This has nothing to do with intelligence, it has everything to do with fascist populism and seizing control through violence.

The police took too long to say that the killer/suspect in custody was not a Muslim nor an immigrant. They did not need to name them. It is that tardiness or lack of information that encourages misinformation to propagate and fester. No excuse for the violence but let us not give such persons an excuse.

I'm a Yank, so I'm unfamiliar with the British Law that compels the Police to identify the national citizenship and religion of a minor suspected of committing a crime.

There are laws and then there is common sense and statistics. Random mass stabbing in UK is very well associated with muslim refugees.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Tigers! says the police waited too long to report the religion and nationality of the perpetrator. barbos says why wait and just assume.

Odd responses to rioting.

 

[Elixir]

Tigers! says the police waited too long to report the religion and nationality of the perpetrator. barbos says why wait and just assume.

Odd responses to rioting.

Hmmm. Not at all odd from babs.
Anything to foment discontent.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Haven't seem much mention of this in US news. Not long ago a teenager using a knife attacked a dance studio, killing three kids and injuring many more. The right wing has latched onto the story, claiming it was an undocumented muslim immigrant. It wasn't. The boy's parents are from Rwanda I hear, but he was born in Wales, and is not muslim.

Note that being born in the UK isn't all that relevant if the problem is Islam. All too many of the recruits are unhappy children of mildly Muslim parents. The radicalizers play on the supposed lapses of the parents and that radical Islam is the path to fixing things.

Note that being NOT A MUSLIM is a big factor in the problem NOT being Islam, but rather irrational Islamophobia that believes everyone who is not as lily-white as the driven snow must be a muslim, in the absurd basis that if you are not "one of us", you are "one of them".

I was referring to "immigrant". A lot of the radicals are western born of moderate parents who fled radical Islam.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The police took too long to say that the killer/suspect in custody was not a Muslim nor an immigrant. They did not need to name them. It is that tardiness or lack of information that encourages misinformation to propagate and fester. No excuse for the violence but let us not give such persons an excuse.

I'm a Yank, so I'm unfamiliar with the British Law that compels the Police to identify the national citizenship and religion of a minor suspected of committing a crime.

Of course there is no such law.

The problem is that England has rather a record of appeasement towards misconduct by immigrants. And in failing to come clean at the start with something that looked like Islamist activity people will suspect that it was Islamist.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The police took too long to say that the killer/suspect in custody was not a Muslim nor an immigrant. They did not need to name them. It is that tardiness or lack of information that encourages misinformation to propagate and fester. No excuse for the violence but let us not give such persons an excuse.

I'm a Yank, so I'm unfamiliar with the British Law that compels the Police to identify the national citizenship and religion of a minor suspected of committing a crime.

Of course there is no such law.

The problem is that England has rather a record of appeasement towards misconduct by immigrants.

Appeasement? So the suspect is going to go free? Man, that is nuts. No one wonder white people are rioting, when people who murder children aren't held responsible for their crime and instead get told to be nicer.

 

[bilby]

Haven't seem much mention of this in US news. Not long ago a teenager using a knife attacked a dance studio, killing three kids and injuring many more. The right wing has latched onto the story, claiming it was an undocumented muslim immigrant. It wasn't. The boy's parents are from Rwanda I hear, but he was born in Wales, and is not muslim.

Note that being born in the UK isn't all that relevant if the problem is Islam. All too many of the recruits are unhappy children of mildly Muslim parents. The radicalizers play on the supposed lapses of the parents and that radical Islam is the path to fixing things.

Note that being NOT A MUSLIM is a big factor in the problem NOT being Islam, but rather irrational Islamophobia that believes everyone who is not as lily-white as the driven snow must be a muslim, in the absurd basis that if you are not "one of us", you are "one of them".

I was referring to "immigrant". A lot of the radicals are western born of moderate parents who fled radical Islam.

Rwanda is overwhemingly Christian, so it seems highly doubtful that there is ANY Islam, moderate, radical, or otherwise, in this person's background.

He could be partly descended from some of the Rwandan Islamic minority, but the probability is tiny, unless there's evidence for it. Do you have any?

The problem here is the conflation of the terms "immigrant", "black", and "Muslim", which as far as the average* member of the English Defence League is concerned, are all synonyms.







* and the EDL membership are mostly very average indeed.