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Rittenhouse/Kenosha Shooting Split

The jury has been deliberating for over 3 hours, so I guess it was not a clear cut case of self-defense to 12 jurors.
I'm so glad I'm not on that jury. So messy. So much vague evidence. So much hearsay. So much political bullshit.

So much death and destruction, and those poor folks have to decide what to do about.

If I were the praying type, I'd be praying for the jury.
Tom
 
Jury asks Judge if he'd be angry if they voted to convict on any charges. Judge affirmed he would.

Not quite at this point, but pretty close.
 
The jury has been deliberating for over 3 hours, so I guess it was not a clear cut case of self-defense to 12 jurors.
Jury also asked to see the other jury's notes... apparently they didn't pay much attention during the trial. ;)

They did ask for additional copies of the instructions which is at least telling us, they are going through the charges from top to bottom. I have absolutely no idea how they'll find.
 
The jury has been deliberating for over 3 hours, so I guess it was not a clear cut case of self-defense to 12 jurors.
Jury also asked to see the other jury's notes... apparently they didn't pay much attention during the trial. ;)

They did ask for additional copies of the instructions which is at least telling us, they are going through the charges from top to bottom. I have absolutely no idea how they'll find.

I am perhaps wrong but I am making an inference that they have been heavily debating some of the charges and those particular charges are related to the first 6 pages. This is because they asked for extra copies of those first 6 pages. So someone had the packet and someone else (or others) felt they should equal time with it and read along directly at their paces and point out things themselves to examine the very technical language...etc in those charges. Those pages seem related to the reckless homicide section. This is not to say they will not eventually have a consensus.

Update:"Jurors in the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse have asked the judge for extra copies of the jury instructions, specifically pages 1 through 6.
In this case, attorneys from both sides did arrive, until the clerk learned the simplicity of the question, according to the courtroom pool reporter. The matter was not seen on courtroom pool cameras.

The jury was provided 11 additional copies, according to the courtroom pool reporter.
Pages 2 through 3 of the jury instructions focus on the self-defense and provocation instructions. Page 4 of the jury instructions focuses on crimes requiring intent to kill. Pages 5 and 6 focus on the first count of first-degree reckless homicide for the fatal shooting of Joseph Rosenbaum.

Jurors began deliberating at 10:15am ET on Tuesday.
"
 
The market value of the property can be quantified. The sentimental value of the property cannot-

Oh, but it can be compared - to the "sentimental value" of a human life.
And guess what?
Right wingers have made that comparison, and determined that the sentimental value of any given inanimate object may very well exceed the sentimental value of a human. Especially a black human. Sometimes they even cite dollar values as "proof".

"Damn those property damagers - free the murderers!"
- Trumpsucker credo
Is there a particular comparison you have in mind that someone here made?
 
The jury has been deliberating for over 3 hours, so I guess it was not a clear cut case of self-defense to 12 jurors.
Jury also asked to see the other jury's notes... apparently they didn't pay much attention during the trial. ;)

They did ask for additional copies of the instructions which is at least telling us, they are going through the charges from top to bottom. I have absolutely no idea how they'll find.

I am perhaps wrong but I am making an inference that they have been heavily debating some of the charges and those particular charges are related to the first 6 pages. This is because they asked for extra copies of those first 6 pages. So someone had the packet and someone else (or others) felt they should equal time with it and read along directly at their paces and point out things themselves to examine the very technical language...etc in those charges. Those pages seem related to the reckless homicide section. This is not to say they will not eventually have a consensus.

Update:"Jurors in the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse have asked the judge for extra copies of the jury instructions, specifically pages 1 through 6.
In this case, attorneys from both sides did arrive, until the clerk learned the simplicity of the question, according to the courtroom pool reporter. The matter was not seen on courtroom pool cameras.

The jury was provided 11 additional copies, according to the courtroom pool reporter.
Pages 2 through 3 of the jury instructions focus on the self-defense and provocation instructions. Page 4 of the jury instructions focuses on crimes requiring intent to kill. Pages 5 and 6 focus on the first count of first-degree reckless homicide for the fatal shooting of Joseph Rosenbaum.

Jurors began deliberating at 10:15am ET on Tuesday.
"
I read that as the foreman thought it'd be a good idea everyone had a copy, so they could go down the list. I wouldn't read any more into it than that.
 
[edited for consistency]
Stay classy, champ.
 
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Wondering when “laws were protective” and who they protected from whom.
 
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I haven't been following this that much. My little knowledge of Rosenbaum was that he was a mentally ill person who got out of the hospital, had nowhere to go, and joined the chaos without a defining ideology. Further, he felt agitated by the paramilitary types and so kept taunting them, even using racial slurs, which some of the supremacists probably hated, but that a BLMer wouldn't be doing. He also allegedly dared them to shoot him. His fiance denied him a place to stay in her hotel room due to domestic violence I think and he seems more of an incidental participant in chaos than an ideologue. However, I am open to hearing relevant information. Does anyone have info on his political organization membership?

JR's ideolgy was Beavism, the movement to wear your shirt on your head and start a fire fire fire.
 
The judge and prosecutor deserve some blame each for why the gun charge was dropped. It's an ambiguously written law that they should have gotten outside ruling on, but they first needed this judge to give a decision. It has been a known issue in the case for a long time, but they waited till the end of the trial for the judge to decide on it.

 
The judge and prosecutor deserve some blame each for why the gun charge was dropped. It's an ambiguously written law that they should have gotten outside ruling on, but they first needed this judge to give a decision. It has been a known issue in the case for a long time, but they waited till the end of the trial for the judge to decide on it.

And the judge waited until just before closing arguments therefore precluding the opportunity of an outside ruling. I find that, and other things this judge has done, suspicious.
 
The judge and prosecutor deserve some blame each for why the gun charge was dropped. It's an ambiguously written law that they should have gotten outside ruling on, but they first needed this judge to give a decision. It has been a known issue in the case for a long time, but they waited till the end of the trial for the judge to decide on it.


Actually, I agree with the judge on this.

Law is effectively a contract of adhesion. In case of ambiguity in a contract of adhesion you choose the interpretation beneficial to the other side.
 
I had to see if that was real, and it is, the guy is doubling down on it.

 
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