Roe v Wade is on deck

[Rhea]

What an ASSHOLE that doctor is! “Bring in your partner” on whether she can get meds for cluster headaches? Her uterus is someone else’s PROPERTY!?

Actually, I don't have a problem with that part of it--the partner should know how badly a pregnancy could go and pretty much has to know if the doctor is going to require doubled contraception to use the drug.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

Right answer here would be, “Do you see any issue with your partner or partners being compliant in double birth control? I would welcome them to a joint appointment if you would like my help in keeping you safe regarding this issue.”

 

[Rhea]

I have never once herd a single one of you suggest that the partner should be “brought into the conversation,” when a man gets viagra. Even though s/he will absolutely be affected and it could be dangerously so.

 

[Toni]

What an ASSHOLE that doctor is! “Bring in your partner” on whether she can get meds for cluster headaches? Her uterus is someone else’s PROPERTY!?

Actually, I don't have a problem with that part of it--the partner should know how badly a pregnancy could go and pretty much has to know if the doctor is going to require doubled contraception to use the drug.

Really? What if the partner disagrees? What if she has multiple partners or no regular partner? It genuinely is no business of anyone other than the woman.

I am unaware of ANY circumstance when a physician or other medical provider even suggests getting the female partner of a male patient involved in his treatment.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What an ASSHOLE that doctor is! “Bring in your partner” on whether she can get meds for cluster headaches? Her uterus is someone else’s PROPERTY!?

Actually, I don't have a problem with that part of it--the partner should know how badly a pregnancy could go and pretty much has to know if the doctor is going to require doubled contraception to use the drug.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

Right answer here would be, “Do you see any issue with your partner or partners being compliant in double birth control? I would welcome them to a joint appointment if you would like my help in keeping you safe regarding this issue.”

I do agree it could have been worded better but first you have to establish if she has a stable partner to be brought in on it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What an ASSHOLE that doctor is! “Bring in your partner” on whether she can get meds for cluster headaches? Her uterus is someone else’s PROPERTY!?

Actually, I don't have a problem with that part of it--the partner should know how badly a pregnancy could go and pretty much has to know if the doctor is going to require doubled contraception to use the drug.

Really? What if the partner disagrees? What if she has multiple partners or no regular partner? It genuinely is no business of anyone other than the woman.

I am unaware of ANY circumstance when a physician or other medical provider even suggests getting the female partner of a male patient involved in his treatment.

How else do you propose to handle doubled contraception?

 

[Toni]

What an ASSHOLE that doctor is! “Bring in your partner” on whether she can get meds for cluster headaches? Her uterus is someone else’s PROPERTY!?

Actually, I don't have a problem with that part of it--the partner should know how badly a pregnancy could go and pretty much has to know if the doctor is going to require doubled contraception to use the drug.

Really? What if the partner disagrees? What if she has multiple partners or no regular partner? It genuinely is no business of anyone other than the woman.

I am unaware of ANY circumstance when a physician or other medical provider even suggests getting the female partner of a male patient involved in his treatment.

How else do you propose to handle doubled contraception?

What do you mean by ‘doubled contraception?

Why is this not a discussion a woman can have with her sex partner(s)? Why does a male partner need to be brought into the discussion with the doctor—at the doctor’s suggestion?

I write this as someone who does ask to accompany her long time spouse to medical appointments that are not routine. My husband has a history of a couple of serious medical conditions. I know my husband —and I know what it is like to hear some serious news at a doctor’s appointment well enough to understand that it can be difficult to take in all the information you are being given and also difficult to remember all the questions you may have—and the answers. Not everyone wants or needs this. Not everyone is suited to being the rational support person.

 

[Rhea]

What an ASSHOLE that doctor is! “Bring in your partner” on whether she can get meds for cluster headaches? Her uterus is someone else’s PROPERTY!?

Actually, I don't have a problem with that part of it--the partner should know how badly a pregnancy could go and pretty much has to know if the doctor is going to require doubled contraception to use the drug.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

Right answer here would be, “Do you see any issue with your partner or partners being compliant in double birth control? I would welcome them to a joint appointment if you would like my help in keeping you safe regarding this issue.”

I do agree it could have been worded better but first you have to establish if she has a stable partner to be brought in on it.

Nope. You fucking don’t. Ghat’s your arrogant male know-it-all gotta-control-the-little-woman brain thinking.


You tell her:

*IF* you have sex, getting pregnant is so dangerous for you that it is critical that you use contraception *AND* your partner uses contraception if it is a man, every time. If you need any back-up in getting a partner to understand how dangerous a pregnancy is for you, and how critical it is for him to use contraception as well as you, I would be absolutely happy to have a conversation with him. Do you understand how dangerous a pregnancy is for you, and can you be compliant in making sure that any male sex partners you have are using contaception?

And all this assumes that the problem is very real and immediate danger TO HER from pregnancy. If the danger is to the fetus, and she has already declared that she does not want to carry a pregnancy to term, then the conversation is:

*IF* you have sex, you need to be vigilant about whether a pregnancy has occured so that you can access abortion care quickly, as this carries a very high risk to the fetus. I recommend that you use reliable, long-acting contraception, that you undersgtand what can alter its efficacy (like antibiotics) and that you insist any male partners also use contraception. And I’d be happy to help with the conversation of convincing a partner of the necessity if you would like to bring him in on the conversation.


But the controlling, insulting language used is not that.

 

[Shadowy Man]

“Does your boyfriend even know you left the house on your own??”

 

[ZiprHead]

“Does your boyfriend even know you left the house on your own??”

And showing so much ankle?

 

[Toni]

What an ASSHOLE that doctor is! “Bring in your partner” on whether she can get meds for cluster headaches? Her uterus is someone else’s PROPERTY!?

Actually, I don't have a problem with that part of it--the partner should know how badly a pregnancy could go and pretty much has to know if the doctor is going to require doubled contraception to use the drug.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

Right answer here would be, “Do you see any issue with your partner or partners being compliant in double birth control? I would welcome them to a joint appointment if you would like my help in keeping you safe regarding this issue.”

I do agree it could have been worded better but first you have to establish if she has a stable partner to be brought in on it.

Why?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What an ASSHOLE that doctor is! “Bring in your partner” on whether she can get meds for cluster headaches? Her uterus is someone else’s PROPERTY!?

Actually, I don't have a problem with that part of it--the partner should know how badly a pregnancy could go and pretty much has to know if the doctor is going to require doubled contraception to use the drug.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

Right answer here would be, “Do you see any issue with your partner or partners being compliant in double birth control? I would welcome them to a joint appointment if you would like my help in keeping you safe regarding this issue.”

I do agree it could have been worded better but first you have to establish if she has a stable partner to be brought in on it.

Why?

I think it isn't a bad idea if you don't think about it for a second.

In the end, after thinking about it for a moment, I'd say the "stable" partner can take her word for it or move on. There is no questioning the standards required for sex that are set forth by the woman in the first place (presuming they are more conservative... though if they are too liberal... the solution is still walk away), regardless if she is being treated for cluster migraines or not.

Woman: I need double protection because of a medication I'm on.
Male: I need a doctors note and three published papers on the subject.

 

[Copernicus]

She's the one taking the risk, if the male refuses to take contraception, so it is her decision alone on how to handle that danger, not the doctor's. His role is to explain the danger to her, not to enforce his own decision on how she ought to handle the matter.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How else do you propose to handle doubled contraception?

What do you mean by ‘doubled contraception?

Two separate, effective means of contraception. Usually that would mean condom + hormonal birth control.

Why is this not a discussion a woman can have with her sex partner(s)? Why does a male partner need to be brought into the discussion with the doctor—at the doctor’s suggestion?

Stealthing is an issue with casual partners. The doc is going to take the safe path.

I write this as someone who does ask to accompany her long time spouse to medical appointments that are not routine. My husband has a history of a couple of serious medical conditions. I know my husband —and I know what it is like to hear some serious news at a doctor’s appointment well enough to understand that it can be difficult to take in all the information you are being given and also difficult to remember all the questions you may have—and the answers. Not everyone wants or needs this. Not everyone is suited to being the rational support person.

When it involves the actions of the partner it's reasonable to require the partner to be part of it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I do agree it could have been worded better but first you have to establish if she has a stable partner to be brought in on it.

Nope. You fucking don’t. Ghat’s your arrogant male know-it-all gotta-control-the-little-woman brain thinking.

This isn't about controlling the little woman.

You tell her:

*IF* you have sex, getting pregnant is so dangerous for you that it is critical that you use contraception *AND* your partner uses contraception if it is a man, every time. If you need any back-up in getting a partner to understand how dangerous a pregnancy is for you, and how critical it is for him to use contraception as well as you, I would be absolutely happy to have a conversation with him. Do you understand how dangerous a pregnancy is for you, and can you be compliant in making sure that any male sex partners you have are using contaception?

Pregnancy doesn't pose any unreasonable risk to her. The risk is to the fetus. The doc doesn't want to be sued over a baby with severe birth defects and thus they're going to take all reasonable steps to ensure it doesn't happen. That is the expectation of the current liability climate--sometimes the patient gets screwed by the system.

And all this assumes that the problem is very real and immediate danger TO HER from pregnancy. If the danger is to the fetus, and she has already declared that she does not want to carry a pregnancy to term, then the conversation is:

And she might change her mind. It happens. Or the QOP might end up blocking an abortion.

*IF* you have sex, you need to be vigilant about whether a pregnancy has occured so that you can access abortion care quickly, as this carries a very high risk to the fetus. I recommend that you use reliable, long-acting contraception, that you undersgtand what can alter its efficacy (like antibiotics) and that you insist any male partners also use contraception. And I’d be happy to help with the conversation of convincing a partner of the necessity if you would like to bring him in on the conversation.


But the controlling, insulting language used is not that.

We don't know what happened here. Her unwillingness to bring her partner in on it suggests that she's not going to be compliant with the rules. I suspect the doctor had the same thought.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

She's the one taking the risk, if the male refuses to take contraception, so it is her decision alone on how to handle that danger, not the doctor's. His role is to explain the danger to her, not to enforce his own decision on how she ought to handle the matter.

No, because the risk isn't to her. The doc doesn't want to get sued over birth defects.

 

[Toni]

How else do you propose to handle doubled contraception?

What do you mean by ‘doubled contraception?

Two separate, effective means of contraception. Usually that would mean condom + hormonal birth control.

Why is this not a discussion a woman can have with her sex partner(s)? Why does a male partner need to be brought into the discussion with the doctor—at the doctor’s suggestion?

Stealthing is an issue with casual partners. The doc is going to take the safe path.

I write this as someone who does ask to accompany her long time spouse to medical appointments that are not routine. My husband has a history of a couple of serious medical conditions. I know my husband —and I know what it is like to hear some serious news at a doctor’s appointment well enough to understand that it can be difficult to take in all the information you are being given and also difficult to remember all the questions you may have—and the answers. Not everyone wants or needs this. Not everyone is suited to being the rational support person.

When it involves the actions of the partner it's reasonable to require the partner to be part of it.

Really? Medical personnel are not allowed to inform intimate partners of those who are being treated for STIs that they have been exposed, including if the intimate partner is a pregnant woman, meaning not only is her health at risk but so is the child’s.

Men are not required to bring their intimate partners if they want a vasectomy or ED medication.

I agree that it is the absolute duty of the physician to ensure that the patient is aware of medical consequences if a pregnancy occurs. I even think the doctor had a duty to ask if the patient thought it would be helpful for the partner to join in discussions so that they are also aware of adverse consequences of a pregnancy while she is being treated fir cluster headaches.

But the doctor has no right to do more than offer or to ask if the patient needs further support or guidance.

 

[Copernicus]

She's the one taking the risk, if the male refuses to take contraception, so it is her decision alone on how to handle that danger, not the doctor's. His role is to explain the danger to her, not to enforce his own decision on how she ought to handle the matter.

No, because the risk isn't to her. The doc doesn't want to get sued over birth defects.

The pregnant female patient should be more sensitive to her doctor's needs. I see your point. He must have feared that she would refuse to get a legal abortion and lie under oath to a court that he had failed to advise her of the risk. There goes his medical license.

 

[Rhea]

I do agree it could have been worded better but first you have to establish if she has a stable partner to be brought in on it.

Nope. You fucking don’t. Ghat’s your arrogant male know-it-all gotta-control-the-little-woman brain thinking.

This isn't about controlling the little woman.

It sure looks exactly like that.
No one “has to establish” anything about her sex life in order to get her headache meds.
They only have to carefully inform her, personally, of the consequences.
Just like when I get my meds and they say, “this will interact with that.” Or when I donate blood and they tell me not to drink alcohol after, or when I was on hormonal birth control pills and they let me know that antibiotics would diminish the effectiveness, which was important because a pregnancy would have been verty dangerous.
They didn’t have to call in my husband to go around my pretty little ineffective hgead about it. And I would have be

You tell her:

*IF* you have sex, getting pregnant is so dangerous for you that it is critical that you use contraception *AND* your partner uses contraception if it is a man, every time. If you need any back-up in getting a partner to understand how dangerous a pregnancy is for you, and how critical it is for him to use contraception as well as you, I would be absolutely happy to have a conversation with him. Do you understand how dangerous a pregnancy is for you, and can you be compliant in making sure that any male sex partners you have are using contaception?

Pregnancy doesn't pose any unreasonable risk to her. The risk is to the fetus. The doc doesn't want to be sued over a baby with severe birth defects and thus they're going to take all reasonable steps to ensure it doesn't happen.

And this is not a reasonable step.
It’s intrusive, desciminatory, sexist and wrong. Her lawsuit will demonstrate that it is not r4easonable

That is the expectation of the current liability climate--sometimes the patient gets screwed by the system.

Except now the doctor is getting sued for screwing over his patient in an unreasonable way.
Too bad, so sad.
I guess that was his choice.

And all this assumes that the problem is very real and immediate danger TO HER from pregnancy. If the danger is to the fetus, and she has already declared that she does not want to carry a pregnancy to term, then the conversation is:

And she might change her mind. It happens.

Not the doctors place to manage that.

Or the QOP might end up blocking an abortion.

Not in New york.

*IF* you have sex, you need to be vigilant about whether a pregnancy has occured so that you can access abortion care quickly, as this carries a very high risk to the fetus. I recommend that you use reliable, long-acting contraception, that you undersgtand what can alter its efficacy (like antibiotics) and that you insist any male partners also use contraception. And I’d be happy to help with the conversation of convincing a partner of the necessity if you would like to bring him in on the conversation.


But the controlling, insulting language used is not that.

We don't know what happened here. Her unwillingness to bring her partner in on it suggests that she's not going to be compliant with the rules. I suspect the doctor had the same thought.

WTF???? No, it indicates that she is in control of her own sex life.
Creepy. Is this like “if you just didn’t struggle you wouldn’t get shot”?
I would be unwilling to bring in my partner because I’m not a fucking object, I am an adult person and I will not be talked down to by someone who thinks my womb is his to push around

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

She's the one taking the risk, if the male refuses to take contraception, so it is her decision alone on how to handle that danger, not the doctor's. His role is to explain the danger to her, not to enforce his own decision on how she ought to handle the matter.

No, because the risk isn't to her. The doc doesn't want to get sued over birth defects.

And this needs to be explained thoroughly to the female patient, not anyone who she is boinking. If she has a partner SHE wants to talk to the doctor, that is her choice to initiate.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

When it involves the actions of the partner it's reasonable to require the partner to be part of it.

Really? Medical personnel are not allowed to inform intimate partners of those who are being treated for STIs that they have been exposed, including if the intimate partner is a pregnant woman, meaning not only is her health at risk but so is the child’s.

Men are not required to bring their intimate partners if they want a vasectomy or ED medication.

I agree that it is the absolute duty of the physician to ensure that the patient is aware of medical consequences if a pregnancy occurs. I even think the doctor had a duty to ask if the patient thought it would be helpful for the partner to join in discussions so that they are also aware of adverse consequences of a pregnancy while she is being treated fir cluster headaches.

But the doctor has no right to do more than offer or to ask if the patient needs further support or guidance.

I looked up the requirements for thalidomide. Hormonal/copper IUD/tubal ligation plus condom/diaphragm/cervical cap plus a pregnancy test every cycle. A signed agreement is also required but I didn't track down what it says. In other words, every possible safety step must be taken.

Your comparisons are not relevant. And there's no issue of medical privacy here, either--it's not telling an existing secret.