Roe v Wade is on deck

[TomC]

I will now consider abortion tourism from Florida. The closest Florida big city to other cities is Jacksonville, and I'll use that city as a reference.

The shortest route to abortion tourism: Ships. It's been done before to avoid laws. Park out beyond the 12 mile limit and only dock in friendly ports.

Ships?

I live in super Red Indiana.
Shortest distance to Illinois abortion law is a 20 minute drive over the Skyway.

It costs a couple of bucks. In Illinois dollars, that's about $8. Still cheaper than a pack of Marlboro. Trust me, I know.

Illinois cannot stop Indiana from having super lax gun buying laws. So people in Illinois who want a gun that's illegal in Illinois just go to Indiana. Same will be true of people in Indiana who want an abortion. Just take US 65 to 80-90.
Or people in Iowa. Or people in Kentucky. Or...
Tom

 

[blastula]

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dw-M8I9RS8[/YOUTUBE]

Such dystopian vibes, this is an aunt straight out of Gilead.

SB8 even says you can file a claim against anyone who merely "intends to engage in the conduct" of performing or aiding an abortion.

 

[ZiprHead]

What is stopping a blue state from enacting legislation that allows anyone to sue anyone who uses the Texas law to sue an abortion provider? A hundred grand sounds like a nice round number.

Yup, turn their law back on them. It won't be too effective because it could only be applied if the action or the person resided in the blue state.

The Texas law isn't limited to only Texas residents.

 

[lpetrich]

I will now consider abortion tourism from Florida. The closest Florida big city to other cities is Jacksonville, and I'll use that city as a reference.

The shortest route to abortion tourism: Ships. It's been done before to avoid laws. Park out beyond the 12 mile limit and only dock in friendly ports.

That's been done by  Women on Waves, but mainly as one-off events.

• Abortion ship Ireland 2001 @ Women on Waves
• Abortion ship Poland 2003 @ Women on Waves
• Abortion ship Portugal 2004 @ Women on Waves
• Abortion ship Spain 2008 @ Women on Waves
• Abortion ship Morocco 2012 @ Women on Waves
• Abortion ship Guatemala, February 2017 @ Women on Waves
• Abortion ship Mexico, April 2017 @ Women on Waves

Abortion drones and robots (remote-controlled delivery):

• First flight Abortion Drone, Poland 2015 @ Women on Waves
• Abortion drone Ireland, 2016 @ Women on Waves - to Northern Ireland
• Abortion Robot in Belfast, Northern Ireland 2018 @ Women on Waves
• Abortion Robot on Stage in Poland, 2018 @ Women on Waves

•  Abortion in the United Kingdom - in Great Britain, legalized in 1967 for socio-economic reasons for first 24 weeks, in Northern Ireland, very restricted until legalized in 2020 for first 12 weeks
•  Abortion in the Republic of Ireland - legalized in 2018 for first 12 weeks
•  Abortion in Portugal - legalized in 2007 for first 10 weeks
•  Abortion in Spain - legalized in 2010 for first 14 weeks
•  Abortion in Poland - restricted in 1990, heavily restricted in 1993, after being legal under Communism
•  Women in Morocco - heavily restricted
•  Abortion in Mexico - legalized in Mexico City in 2007 for first 12 weeks, in Oaxaca state in 2019 also for first 12 weeks, and in Hidalgo and Veracruz states
•  Abortion in Guatemala - heavily restricted

More generally,  Abortion law

 

[lpetrich]

I live in super Red Indiana.
Shortest distance to Illinois abortion law is a 20 minute drive over the Skyway.

It costs a couple of bucks. In Illinois dollars, that's about $8. Still cheaper than a pack of Marlboro. Trust me, I know.

That's true for wherever it is that you live, but many people in antiabortion states live much farther from abortion-friendly states.

Abortion tourism is already happening.
More than 5,500 women came to Illinois to have an abortion last year amid growing restrictions in the Midwest - Chicago Tribune - datelined 2018

More women are crossing state lines to have abortions in Illinois, according to the latest statistics from the Illinois Department of Public Health, which were released earlier this week.

Last year, 5,528 women traveled to Illinois from other states to terminate pregnancies, almost a thousand more than the 4,543 women who came from out of state in 2016. The total number of abortions statewide during the same period increased slightly, from 38,382 in 2016 to 39,329 in 2017, according to annual state reports. Of those, about 1,000 abortions each year were provided to women whose home states were marked “unknown.”

While the data doesn’t indicate the reason for out-of-state travel, Illinois is generally considered a reproductive rights haven amid the more restrictive Midwest, where women often face waiting periods, gestational limits, fewer clinics and other hurdles.

2010: 3,050, 2011: 3,139, 2012: 3,138, 2013: 3,189, 2014: 2,970, 2015: 3,210, 2016: 4,543, 2017: 5,528

Approximately constant until 2015, then started to grow.

 

[lpetrich]

Planned Parenthood Quietly Builds Large-Scale Clinic In Fairview Heights | Illinois Public Media News | Illinois Public Media

That's about 15 miles east of St. Louis, MO, the home of MO's only abortion clinic. from  Abortion in Missouri, "Peaking at 29 abortion clinics in 1982, the number began to decline, going from twelve in 1992 to one in 2014, down to zero for a time in 2016, but back to one from 2017 to May 2019 when the last remaining clinic announced it would likely lose its license. However, the clinic remains open as of 2020."

Gov. Pritzker vows to protect abortion rights in Illinois | Raleigh News & Observer


Here's How Many Abortion Clinics Are in Each State

The 2014 numbers:
AK 3 . AL 5 . AR 3 . AZ 9 . CA 152 . CO 21 . CT 25 . DC 5 . DE 3 . FL 71 . GA 17 . HI 4 . IA 12 . ID 3 . IL 24 . IN 9 . KS 4 . KY 2 . LA 5 . MA 14 . MD 25 . ME 4 . MI 20 . MN 6 . MO 1 . MS 1 . MT 5 . NC 16 . ND 1 . NE 3 . NH 4 . NJ 41 . NM 9 . NV 8 . NY 95 . OH 12 . OK 3 . OR 15 . PA 20 . RI 3 . SC 3 . SD 1 . TN 7 . TX 28 . UT 2 . VA 18 . VT 6 . WA 33 . WI 4 . WV 2 . WY 1

Sorted by number:
CA 152 . NY 95 . FL 71 . NJ 41 . WA 33 . TX 28 . CT 25 . MD 25 . IL 24 . CO 21 . MI 20 . PA 20 . VA 18 . GA 17 . NC 16 . OR 15 . MA 14 . IA 12 . OH 12 . AZ 9 . IN 9 . NM 9 . NV 8 . TN 7 . MN 6 . VT 6 . AL 5 . DC 5 . LA 5 . MT 5 . HI 4 . KS 4 . ME 4 . NH 4 . WI 4 . AK 3 . AR 3 . DE 3 . ID 3 . NE 3 . OK 3 . RI 3 . SC 3 . KY 2 . UT 2 . WV 2 . MO 1 . MS 1 . ND 1 . SD 1 . WY 1

With 2018 population estimates, I calculated the number of abortion clinics per million people:
AK 4.07 . AL 1.02 . AR 1.00 . AZ 1.25 . CA 3.84 . CO 3.69 . CT 7.00 . DC 7.12 . DE 3.10 . FL 3.33 . GA 1.62 . HI 2.82 . IA 3.80 . ID 1.71 . IL 1.88 . IN 1.34 . KS 1.37 . KY 0.45 . LA 1.07 . MA 2.03 . MD 4.14 . ME 2.99 . MI 2.00 . MN 1.07 . MO 0.16 . MS 0.33 . MT 4.71 . NC 1.54 . ND 1.32 . NE 1.55 . NH 2.95 . NJ 4.60 . NM 4.30 . NV 2.64 . NY 4.86 . OH 1.03 . OK 0.76 . OR 3.58 . PA 1.56 . RI 2.84 . SC 0.59 . SD 1.13 . TN 1.03 . TX 0.98 . UT 0.63 . VA 2.11 . VT 9.58 . WA 4.38 . WI 0.69 . WV 1.11 . WY 1.73

Sorted by number:
VT 9.58 . DC 7.12 . CT 7.00 . NY 4.86 . MT 4.71 . NJ 4.60 . WA 4.38 . NM 4.30 . MD 4.14 . AK 4.07 . CA 3.84 . IA 3.80 . CO 3.69 . OR 3.58 . FL 3.33 . DE 3.10 . ME 2.99 . NH 2.95 . RI 2.84 . HI 2.82 . NV 2.64 . VA 2.11 . MA 2.03 . MI 2.00 . IL 1.88 . WY 1.73 . ID 1.71 . GA 1.62 . PA 1.56 . NE 1.55 . NC 1.54 . KS 1.37 . IN 1.34 . ND 1.32 . AZ 1.25 . SD 1.13 . WV 1.11 . LA 1.07 . MN 1.07 . OH 1.03 . TN 1.03 . AL 1.02 . AR 1.00 . TX 0.98 . OK 0.76 . WI 0.69 . UT 0.63 . SC 0.59 . KY 0.45 . MS 0.33 . MO 0.16

 

[ZiprHead]

Anti-Abortion Whistleblowing Site Gets New Home With Provider Known for Hosting Right-Wing Extremists

An online whistleblower portal created to punish anyone providing abortion services in Texas has suffered another defeat in its quest to enforce the state’s new six-week abortion ban as it was forced to disable the function allowing it to collect anonymous tips.

The site, created by the evangelical group Texas Right to Life, had gotten the boot from hosting provider GoDaddy on Friday, but it had found a new home alongside neo-Nazis and white supremacists on Saturday. That’s when Epik, a provider known for hosting right-wing extremist groups, welcomed ProLifeWhistleblower.com to its client roster, according to domain registration data cited by Ars Technica.

 

[TomC]

That's true for wherever it is that you live, but many people in antiabortion states live much farther from abortion-friendly states.

I wasn't very clear.
My point is that state limits on abortion only apply to people who can't travel. And forces women to put off the abortion until they get the wherewithal to travel.

The idea of using state legislatures to combat abortion is as stupid as trying prevent abortions by defunding Planned Parenthood and ending sex ed. In other words, counterproductive.
Tom

 

[Shadowy Man]

That's true for wherever it is that you live, but many people in antiabortion states live much farther from abortion-friendly states.

I wasn't very clear.
My point is that state limits on abortion only apply to people who can't travel. And forces women to put off the abortion until they get the wherewithal to travel.

The idea of using state legislatures to combat abortion is as stupid as trying prevent abortions by defunding Planned Parenthood and ending sex ed. In other words, counterproductive.
Tom

A productive state level approach to preventing abortions was when Colorado gave out free IUDs. Too bad that “pro-lifers” are against the things that would actually lower abortion rates.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That's true for wherever it is that you live, but many people in antiabortion states live much farther from abortion-friendly states.

I wasn't very clear.
My point is that state limits on abortion only apply to people who can't travel. And forces women to put off the abortion until they get the wherewithal to travel.

The idea of using state legislatures to combat abortion is as stupid as trying prevent abortions by defunding Planned Parenthood and ending sex ed. In other words, counterproductive.
Tom

Because it isn’t abortions they want to control, it is all birth control.

 

[TomC]

That's true for wherever it is that you live, but many people in antiabortion states live much farther from abortion-friendly states.

I wasn't very clear.
My point is that state limits on abortion only apply to people who can't travel. And forces women to put off the abortion until they get the wherewithal to travel.

The idea of using state legislatures to combat abortion is as stupid as trying prevent abortions by defunding Planned Parenthood and ending sex ed. In other words, counterproductive.
Tom

Because it isn’t abortions they want to control, it is all birth control.

Talking about politicians, I honestly don't think they care. If they did they'd examine the evidence for statistically sound methods of preventing abortions. But they don't.

It's about political grandstanding and getting votes from poorly informed voters. I firmly believe that folks like the Texas legislature would absolutely hate it if women stopped getting abortions. Then they'd lose a wedge issue that reliably generates wealth and power.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

That's true for wherever it is that you live, but many people in antiabortion states live much farther from abortion-friendly states.

I wasn't very clear.
My point is that state limits on abortion only apply to people who can't travel. And forces women to put off the abortion until they get the wherewithal to travel.

The idea of using state legislatures to combat abortion is as stupid as trying prevent abortions by defunding Planned Parenthood and ending sex ed. In other words, counterproductive.
Tom

Because it isn’t abortions they want to control, it is all birth control.

I don't believe they give a shit about birth control, abortions, fetuses. It's about control over women. Specifically their bodies.
EXACTLY like the sexually frustrated jihadists of "extreme Islam".

 

[TomC]

Because it isn’t abortions they want to control, it is all birth control.

I don't believe they give a shit about birth control, abortions, fetuses. It's about control over women. Specifically their bodies.
EXACTLY like the sexually frustrated jihadists of "extreme Islam".

I think you're giving them too much credit for being "aware of, and concerned about, social issues".

In other words Woke.

I don't think they care about anything except riding the gravy train of elected office in a corrupt state system.
Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

Because it isn’t abortions they want to control, it is all birth control.

I don't believe they give a shit about birth control, abortions, fetuses. It's about control over women. Specifically their bodies.
EXACTLY like the sexually frustrated jihadists of "extreme Islam".

I think you're giving them too much credit for being "aware of, and concerned about, social issues".

In other words Woke.

I don't think they care about anything except riding the gravy train of elected office in a corrupt state system.
Tom

If you wish to hold such beliefs in contravention of evidence, feel free.

I guess when that's what you expect your folks to do, to hats what you see in others?

 

[TomC]

I think you're giving them too much credit for being "aware of, and concerned about, social issues".

In other words Woke.

I don't think they care about anything except riding the gravy train of elected office in a corrupt state system.
Tom

If you wish to hold such beliefs in contravention of evidence, feel free.

I guess when that's what you expect your folks to do, to hats what you see in others?

Evidence? I quoted a TFT poster.

What are you talking about?
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I will now consider abortion tourism from Florida. The closest Florida big city to other cities is Jacksonville, and I'll use that city as a reference.

The shortest route to abortion tourism: Ships. It's been done before to avoid laws. Park out beyond the 12 mile limit and only dock in friendly ports.

Ships?

I live in super Red Indiana.
Shortest distance to Illinois abortion law is a 20 minute drive over the Skyway.

It costs a couple of bucks. In Illinois dollars, that's about $8. Still cheaper than a pack of Marlboro. Trust me, I know.

Illinois cannot stop Indiana from having super lax gun buying laws. So people in Illinois who want a gun that's illegal in Illinois just go to Indiana. Same will be true of people in Indiana who want an abortion. Just take US 65 to 80-90.
Or people in Iowa. Or people in Kentucky. Or...
Tom

I'm talking about from the deep south. A ship in international waters is a lot closer than a blue state.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What is stopping a blue state from enacting legislation that allows anyone to sue anyone who uses the Texas law to sue an abortion provider? A hundred grand sounds like a nice round number.

Yup, turn their law back on them. It won't be too effective because it could only be applied if the action or the person resided in the blue state.

The Texas law isn't limited to only Texas residents.

The problem is you have to sue someone either where they live or where the act took place. Thus California having a law allowing anyone who files a SB8 suit to be sued for $100k won't be useful to anyone living in Texas. It would support a countersuit if a Texan sued someone in California.

 

[ideologyhunter]

An abortion boat in the Gulf...and the usual hurricane on the way...Pat Robertson would lose his shit.

 

[TomC]

Ships?

I live in super Red Indiana.
Shortest distance to Illinois abortion law is a 20 minute drive over the Skyway.

It costs a couple of bucks. In Illinois dollars, that's about $8. Still cheaper than a pack of Marlboro. Trust me, I know.

Illinois cannot stop Indiana from having super lax gun buying laws. So people in Illinois who want a gun that's illegal in Illinois just go to Indiana. Same will be true of people in Indiana who want an abortion. Just take US 65 to 80-90.
Or people in Iowa. Or people in Kentucky. Or...
Tom

I'm talking about from the deep south. A ship in international waters is a lot closer than a blue state.

I don't understand.
A ship in international waters is easier to get to than a state you can drive to? For people who are poor nd not well educated?
That doesn't make any sense to me.
Sure, the wealthy women who want an abortion can probably get to a ship in international waters just like they can get to another state. Heck, those ships might have spas, and put cucumber slices over your eyes during the procedure.

But no. I don't think a ship in international waters is more accessible than Illinois, for most of the people who want an abortion.
Tom

 

[lpetrich]

Looking for "abortion boat" and "abortion ship", WoW never had anything big. Its first abortion boat/ship, the Aurora, was a 130-ft / 40-m sport fishing boat, and later ones were smaller.

Texas Abortion Laws Largely Ban the Procedure and Put Women at Risk | Teen Vogue by Jessica Cisneros, running a second time against Henry Cuellar, D-TX-28.

I live in Laredo, a border town in South Texas, where access to basic health care is extremely limited and reproductive health care is even more difficult to find. One of the many reasons I support Medicare for All is because I believe health care is a human right, not just a privilege for those who can afford it.

Unfortunately, it’s not uncommon for people in my community to cross over to Mexico for care because it’s more affordable there. My friends and I have crossed into Nuevo Laredo for pap smears, birth control, and mammograms because they’re unaffordable on this side of the border for those who are uninsured. We recognize that we have the privilege to cross the border to get the care we need — a privilege many of our undocumented loved ones don’t have.

 Medical tourism is a *lot* more than abortion tourism. A Mexican town, Los Algodones, across the border from Yuma AZ, is a very tiny place, but it has numerous dentists who cater to visiting Americans, enough to give the town the nickname "Molar City".

The first time I ran for Congress, I heard similar stories from countless people in our community. People shared experiences of having to travel for hours, to the Rio Grande Valley or San Antonio, to receive abortion care because Laredo doesn’t have a clinic. Reproductive health care is basic health care, but given the disproportionate impact that lack of access to this care has on BIPOC and low-income communities, it’s also a racial and economic justice issue.

...
Texas also has one of the highest maternal mortality rates, which disproportionately affects Black mothers.

...
Cuellar, my former boss, is the incumbent Democrat representing Texas’s 28th Congressional District — my home. While in office, he has voted numerous times to ban coverage of abortion care for people insured through Medicaid, defund Planned Parenthood, and has even cosponsored anti-choice legislation introduced by Republicans.