Russia: Don't look for who did the MH17 shootdown

[barbos]

Sure, but that tells nothing about what manouvers the missile may have taken before it exploded. Almaz-Antey's presentation does not give much detail about the how the targeting mechanism works.

It does not maneuver much, you were told that.

 

[bilby]

Sure, but that tells nothing about what manouvers the missile may have taken before it exploded. Almaz-Antey's presentation does not give much detail about the how the targeting mechanism works.

It does not maneuver much, you were told that.

I was told that presents were brought to me each year by a man in a red suit that climbs down the chimney too.

Having been told something has exactly zero relevance to its truth value.

Being told all about how surface to air missiles work by some random guy with an agenda on the internet who apparently has no relevant experience or qualifications is the epistemological equivalent of not being told anything at all.

 

[tupac chopra]

It does not maneuver much, you were told that.

I was told that presents were brought to me each year by a man in a red suit that climbs down the chimney too.

Having been told something has exactly zero relevance to its truth value.

Being told all about how surface to air missiles work by some random guy with an agenda on the internet who apparently has no relevant experience or qualifications is the epistemological equivalent of not being told anything at all.

Why don't you propose a flight path from Snizhne that could leave the pattern of damage seen on the plane?

 

[Ford]

Why don't you propose a flight path from Snizhne that could leave the pattern of damage seen on the plane?

Why don't you stop repeating Kremlin propaganda?


Oh...I forgot. That's a revenue stream for you.

 

[bilby]

I was told that presents were brought to me each year by a man in a red suit that climbs down the chimney too.

Having been told something has exactly zero relevance to its truth value.

Being told all about how surface to air missiles work by some random guy with an agenda on the internet who apparently has no relevant experience or qualifications is the epistemological equivalent of not being told anything at all.

Why don't you propose a flight path from Snizhne that could leave the pattern of damage seen on the plane?

Because this:

This could be funny

Leads me to conclude that you are simply trolling, and that to do so would be futile.

 

[tupac chopra]

Yes I removed that as you were posting, as I'd prefer to get a serious reply.
The point is you can't have the missile fired from Snizhne which is almost directly head on but hitting the plane from the side. Snizhne is out.
The pattern of fragment damage shows the missile came from the side, not head on.

 

[dystopian]

In other news, Russia has gone full on evil: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/...fiscated-burned-on-russian-border/528029.html

 

[Cerberus]

In other news, Russia has gone full on evil: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/...fiscated-burned-on-russian-border/528029.html

"Russian officials euthanized and then burned 50 ducklings"

Is that a fact?

"According to the report, the man transporting the fluffy cargo was a regular duckling smuggler"

One of the 'Russian officials' mentioned above by any chance?

"President Vladimir Putin signed a decree last month ordering the destruction of food originating from countries that introduced sanctions against Russia over the Ukraine crisis."

I think not; but you can provide a link to prove me wrong if you like? You've really got it in for Putin, haven't you!!??

 

[barbos]

It does not maneuver much, you were told that.

I was told that presents were brought to me each year by a man in a red suit that climbs down the chimney too.

Having been told something has exactly zero relevance to its truth value.

Being told all about how surface to air missiles work by some random guy with an agenda on the internet who apparently has no relevant experience or qualifications is the epistemological equivalent of not being told anything at all.

How do you know I don't have relevant experience?
As for agenda, then you have it too. And my agenda is being against bullshit.
You were told algorithm of that system, it's simple and most efficient.

 

[barbos]

Russia has its fair share of sadists. I remember Australians (who take part in MH17 investigation) threatened to kill johny Depp's dog.

Also these poor ducks had no documents, try doing something like that in US.

 

[Will Wiley]

Russia has its fair share of sadists. I remember Australians (who take part in MH17 investigation) threatened to kill johny Depp's dog.

Also these poor ducks had no documents, try doing something like that in US.

Whether it's obsequiously following the US's foreign policy or being so outraged they want to kill Johnny Depp's dog the Abbott govt is ugly (but of course no match for the evil's of Putin)

 

[tupac chopra]

Basically, the points you raise are on the same level as what moon-landing hoax-theorists bring up about the pictures and video of Apollo mission.

That seems a little extreme. After all we are closer to a nuclear confrontation than we have been in decades. America has basically accused Russia of complicity in this tragedy, yet they have released no evidence, though they most certainly were watching the area keenly at that time.
There are have no verified photos, as far as dates go of a buk. Though the dates can easily be verified with the original files.

 

[barbos]

About baby-ducks, russian customs control says owner had an option to go back with his ducks but decided not to.
And it was second time he was caught with ducks on the border. They don't say what happened the first time to ducks.
Baby ducks are cute and all that, but I bet EU would have done the same.

 

[Will Wiley]

Can you explain why the anonymous photo of a buk on the roadside in Donetsk, that was not confirmed to even be there in the DigitalGlobe photo is reliable as evidence.
One big problem with Bellingcat is that they think that if they can geo locate a photo they think they have "verified" it. But with the Paris Match "photo" they have
1) No evidence as to the date it was taken, and lack of confirmation from the DG satellite photo
2)No evidence as to who took it, and as most of their evidence comes from the SBU one must wonder if this didn't too.
3) No examination as to whether the photo has been photoshopped.
4) No explantion as to how it relates to an almost identical photo from der spiegel. Is it a photo or part of a video?
That being the case it's hard to see why anyone would consider it evidence

Why is the confirmation from Paris Match itself not evidence that the photo was taken on July 17th around 11?

Why would it be? They won't supply the metadata (if they even have it) or the name of the photographer.

The shadows in the picture confirm that they told the truth about the time of day.

I agree.

Why wouldn't the date be correct?

There could be host of reasons. But the obvious one is that someone wants to make the case that anti coup forces shot the plane down.

You are basically accusing that Paris Match deliberately lied about the time when the photo was taken,

No I'm not they could be passing on what they were told without verifying it. Not unusual.

or that they photoshopped the photo,

Or someone else may have before Paris Match received it.

but you have not given any reason as to why they would do it. That's a serious accusation, shouldn't you back it up with something?

Most of the "evidence" has come via the SBU. Maybe this photo came from them too? the SBU hve every reason to lie.

Second, the photo is corroborated by other sightings of the same truck on the same day, on the same route. You keep ignoring this point, but multiple pieces of evidence that support each other, are more certain than any one of them alone.

I'm not ignoring the point. It's circular reasoning. None of the photos are verified WRT to the date. So we can't use one unverified photo to verify another.

Third, that the truck can't be seen in DigitalGlobe has reasonable explanation in that the timing is not so accurate

The most independent timing is 11.03 and the digital globe photo is 11.08 (see Hector Reban's blog which i linked to earlier)

and there are obstructions that may have hidden it from view

I admit that is possible but it's still unconfirmed that means.

But at the same time, the fact that the truck is not at the vehicle yard points to the photo being taken when Paris Match claims it was.

No it does not. The truck was not in the yard for a length of time.

Also, if you think lack of the truck in some photo is evidence, then surely, lack of sightings of the same truck with the BUK in donetsk is evidence that the photo was indeed taken on 17th.

I don't follow you point.

Fourth, the image in Der Spiegel is different, but most likely the photographer took several pictures in sequence. It says nothing about the authenticity, if anything, it decreases the chances that they were photoshopped (as the forger would have to edit two photos in exactly the same way, which is rather unlikely).

Why is that unlikely or likely?

Basically, the points you raise are on the same level as what moon-landing hoax-theorists bring up about the pictures and video of Apollo mission.

As someone else pointed out the matter is quite serious and needs proper evidence.

 

[Will Wiley]

About baby-ducks, russian customs control says owner had an option to go back with his ducks but decided not to.
And it was second time he was caught with ducks on the border. They don't say what happened the first time to ducks.
Baby ducks are cute and all that, but I bet EU would have done the same.

The EU would not because the EU are not subhuman.
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBy7tQ124Fk[/YOUTUBE]

 

[barbos]

About baby-ducks, russian customs control says owner had an option to go back with his ducks but decided not to.
And it was second time he was caught with ducks on the border. They don't say what happened the first time to ducks.
Baby ducks are cute and all that, but I bet EU would have done the same.

The EU would not because the EU are not subhuman.
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBy7tQ124Fk[/YOUTUBE]

Current ukrainian governmet do make Psaki look bad

 

[Deepak]

Dutch report is out - and it points to a Russian made missile. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34511973

 

[barbos]

Dutch report is out - and it points to a Russian made missile. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34511973

Yes, and 9-11 attack was done using US-made aircrafts.

Anyhow, that report agreed with Almaz-Antey earlier report about missile direction.
Also this:

The report does not say who fired the missile, but says airspace over eastern Ukraine should have been closed.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, that's a good reason to avoid giving any blame to the rebels because the plane shouldn't have been there. It's sort of like if a girl dresses slutty and then gets drunk at a frat party and someone rapes her - the real villian is the CIA.

 

[barbos]

Ya, that's a good reason to avoid giving any blame to the rebels because the plane shouldn't have been there. It's sort of like if a girl dresses slutty and then gets drunk at a frat party and someone rapes her - the real villian is the CIA.

What is your point here?