barbos
Contributor
And what are these attacks consist of? And how exactly they are supposed to help russians?
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Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
Isn't it obvious how attacking a group that supports sanctions against you will help you? [so long as no one figured out it was you or people continue to claim it wasn't them]
But let's not change the subject.
Papadapolous has incriminated both Trump and Sessions now according to my last post.
No comments?
Anyone?
barbos
Contributor
You are talking bullshit again. First 71% number is as surprising as Trump having support. Average russian does not really care about alleged meddling in your elections and simply accepts what state controlled TV says. Same way average american does not care about, I don't know, Ukraine for example. I myself don't watch russian TV, so my opinion is not a result of propaganda. It's based on more reliable and neutral sources (internet based news)
I do believe some meddling took place, but it was orders of magnitude less massive/evil than american propaganda wants you to believe.
let me give an illustration. There is this game NATO and Russia play when they intercept each other war planes near each other borders. And more often than not, US/GB news paint russians as a bad guys in it, but nobody else, not german, not french, not anybody else, just british and american. And french pilot were once asked about it and they said I am paraphrasing "Russians play by the rules". You can argue that russians only choose to harass british/americans but on a number of occasions initial reports of russians being bad were later shown to be false and US/british admitted it.
Same with this hacking shit. One day I was watching CNN and one former CIA or something boss was discussing alleged russian hacking of US power grid and then smiled and said "we do that too" meaning hacking russian power grid. What the hell? seriously what the hell? How can you play outrage at russians when you do exactly same thing.
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barbos
Contributor
No, it's not obvious to me.
I think hackers hack everybody without much discretion.
Wow, I feel like some kind of press secretary or something.
All people around Trump are opportunistic (and stupid) motherfuckers. Papadapolous is no exception. Now, if this "development" helps to get rid of Trump and his basket of deplorables then I am all for it.
Koyaanisqatsi
Veteran Member
To what end? The only people who disseminate straight-up propaganda in our country--as that term fully entails--are Republicans. The "meddling" that took place has been corroborated by our entire intelligence network, as well as the intelligence agencies of several other foreign nations. ALL of which confirm--based on the evidence--that Putin personally oversaw and implemented an extensive and prolonged, years-long cyberattack against us, specifically to put one man--Trump--into the Oval.
Our intelligence community is typically made up of Republicans, but of course there are Democrats and Independents and the like, but generally, except when headed by Republicans, they don't "do" politics ("deep state" bullshit conspiracy nonsense aside).
So what exactly is to be gained by the world's intelligence agencies (not just our own), collaborating and pretending/disseminating a huge, false or misleading story--aka, "propaganda"--including all of the made up evidence that would necessarily need to be a part of it? To paint Putin--who is already considered to be a murdering dictator--in a "bad" light? A light he's already painted within?
Fear of the greatness of a two-bit TV reality star with delusions of everything?
How many times does "whataboutism" (aka, tu quoque fallacy) need to be explained to you before you comprehend it? NO ONE is dismissing anything we may do against Russia, but the fact that our countries DO do this shit isn't disputed by you pointing your finger and vomiting whatabout!!?? every fucking post.
Once again, you're just affirming that Putin is in fact guilty as charged.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
barbos
Contributor
How many times do I have to tell you "Go and fuck yourself with your stupid fallacies"?
I am not in a position to admit anything. I simply have no authority to admit or commit anything in the first place.
I merely give you my opinion.
I know.
Because it's really not a development, not a new one at least.
Koyaanisqatsi
Veteran Member
Piercing counter argument.
To paraphrase a master statesman, "go and fuck yourself with your stupid opinions."
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
So you know you're not the Russian press secretary but you feel like it?
barbos said:
Well it was obvious but now we have another co-conspirator on record formally ratting out Trump and Sessions. In addition to all the legal fallout this is creating, which deserves at least a full book, Trump threatening Sessions is now going beyond obstruction to witness tampering.
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
Julia Davis of the Daily Beast gives us an overview of the Russian media reaction to the upcoming midterms: The Real Reason Russia Is Rooting for Republicans in the Midterms
Barbos has said that he does not watch Russian TV, so he is unaffected by such nonsense. Instead, he goes to a more objective source: the Internet. And, furthermore, as a citizen of that little country, he can tell us exactly what the "average Russian" is thinking. No need to bother with polls and opinions by other Russians, who obviously don't know as much.
Barbos has said that he does not watch Russian TV, so he is unaffected by such nonsense. Instead, he goes to a more objective source: the Internet. And, furthermore, as a citizen of that little country, he can tell us exactly what the "average Russian" is thinking. No need to bother with polls and opinions by other Russians, who obviously don't know as much.
Underseer
Contributor
Gosh, why would Russians attack disloyal Republicans who support sanctions against Russia? I must be making it all up! All this talk about Russia is a liberal conspiracy because we're jealous of Trump's greatness!
barbos
Contributor
you first.
barbos
Contributor
Yes, that's what I said originally I believe.
It seems you want to me to defend Trump when I explicitly and many times have said I want that orange thing out, in fact I want him IN.... prison.
What is wrong with you?
barbos
Contributor
Bullcrap, Julia Davis does not understand how "politics" works in Russia or really anywhere else.
Russian average politician is a clown who can't criticize Putin or rulling party, so the only way to stay on camera is to criticize America. This is the only way to get popular and get reelected in order to get huge (and I do mean huge) salary in russian parliament. But even with that in mind, they did acknowledge that McCain was a war hero who nevertheless could not get rid of his grudge against soviets I mean russians. His hate of Russia is a result of his personal experience.
So, you have nothing except rolleyes? Yes, I know way more about opinion of average russian than you or this poll, I am forced to interact with them almost every day. 71% of people do believe TV and this is the only poll which is relevant here.Barbos has said that he does not watch Russian TV, so he is unaffected by such nonsense. Instead, he goes to a more objective source: the Internet. And, furthermore, as a citizen of that little country, he can tell us exactly what the "average Russian" is thinking. No need to bother with polls and opinions by other Russians, who obviously don't know as much.
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Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
No, it doesn't seem that way. I do not want you to defend Trump. I could give a care. Instead, you called this a "development" with scare quotes, a granular concrete issue, not some vast opinion on Trump that I don't care about. I challenged you on that and you changed the subject to Trump and how now you hate him or whatever. So, what I wrote still stands:
Don2 said:
barbos
Contributor
Yes, Trump lied ..... again. You want me to get all worked out every time Trump lies?
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
Barbos has said that he does not watch Russian TV, so he is unaffected by such nonsense. Instead, he goes to a more objective source: the Internet. And, furthermore, as a citizen of that little country, he can tell us exactly what the "average Russian" is thinking. No need to bother with polls and opinions by other Russians, who obviously don't know as much.
So, you have nothing except rolleyes? Yes, I know way more about opinion of average russian than you or this poll, I am forced to interact with them almost every day. 71% of people do believe TV and this is the only poll which is relevant here.
With respect, you don't sample the opinions of everyone you interact with on a daily basis, and they have no reason to confide in you. I don't doubt that you have formed your opinion of the "average Russian" in the same way that so many people have formed theirs about the average citizen in their own countries--on the basis of a relatively small circle of family, friends, and acquaintances. Who do you hang out with? What age group? Conservatives or liberals? Educated people? Academics? Old babushkas? Mostly men? Mostly women? Nobody interacts with the "average Russian" on a daily basis. You are an expert on your own life and daily existence, not the lives of everyone else who lives in Russia. I have better sources for that kind of information, many of whom are just as Russian as you are but have more expertise in that area.
barbos
Contributor
You display ignorance about how things are in Russia. You essentially assume things are the same way as in US, hence your conervative/liberal division which does not really exist in Russia. Yes, one can learn a lot more about political opinions in Russia by simply observing people than in US.Barbos has said that he does not watch Russian TV, so he is unaffected by such nonsense. Instead, he goes to a more objective source: the Internet. And, furthermore, as a citizen of that little country, he can tell us exactly what the "average Russian" is thinking. No need to bother with polls and opinions by other Russians, who obviously don't know as much.
So, you have nothing except rolleyes? Yes, I know way more about opinion of average russian than you or this poll, I am forced to interact with them almost every day. 71% of people do believe TV and this is the only poll which is relevant here.
With respect, you don't sample the opinions of everyone you interact with on a daily basis, and they have no reason to confide in you. I don't doubt that you have formed your opinion of the "average Russian" in the same way that so many people have formed theirs about the average citizen in their own countries--on the basis of a relatively small circle of family, friends, and acquaintances. Who do you hang out with? What age group? Conservatives or liberals? Educated people? Academics? Old babushkas? Mostly men? Mostly women? Nobody interacts with the "average Russian" on a daily basis. You are an expert on your own life and daily existence, not the lives of everyone else who lives in Russia. I have better sources for that kind of information, many of whom are just as Russian as you are but have more expertise in that area.
Elixir
Made in America
THAT^
Imagine being in Russia when someone you have encountered by chance starts grilling you on your political opinions... what do you do? You praise the ground trodden by your fearless leader of course. Unless you fancy the idea of free room and board somewhere in Siberia.
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Heh...That happened. In 2004, I was in Moscow at the end of my Silk Road adventure and I needed to find my way to the DHL outlet to mail home a shipload of stuff. I used the then acceptable means of flagging down an ordinary driver to squabble over where I needed to go and how much I was willing to pay. Once that was settled and I was in the vehicle, my new friend was obviously very pleased that an American had stumbled in to his world. In his very broken English, he made it ever so clear that he was curious as to who I was supporting in the upcoming US presidential election. When I begrudingly told him I would probably vote for Dean, he broke in to a huge grin and practically broke out the vodka bottle for a round with his newfound friend. I guess W was not appreciated in some quarters at the time. Nobody asked me what I thought of Russian rule, and I probably wouldn't have known any way. All I knew was that the Party was over.