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RussiaGate

The only times Alfa Bank was mentioned in the report is when the report refers to Petr Alven and Richard Burk. It says absolutely nothing about the Trump servers and the Alfa servers communicating.
Exactly! No mention of secret channel of communication. Why is that?
It could be that Mueller was limiting his investigation to evidence of a criminal conspiracy that would stand up in court. The Alfa Bank story was not that kind of evidence, and the question of its role would properly be part of the counterintelligence investigation that had been explicitly separated from Mueller's domestic focus. It appears that Mueller thought that the DoJ had a separate counterintelligence investigation going, but nobody knows whether it actually happened. Mueller made almost no mention of Alfa Bank, because it was outside of what he considered the scope of his investigation to be. It seems more than likely that the Trump administration simply dropped the counterintelligence probe without letting the public or Mueller know. You cannot conclude that Mueller's failure to say more about Alfa Bank was an endorsement of your speculation.
Horse shit. Mueller was not preparing to go to Court. He was merely investigating.
And stop implying that Alfa-Trump server conspiracy just was not up to the high standards. It is utter horse shit and this is why Alfa Bank is pursuing it.
Because they know they would win and because Putin told them - I need this shit.
Your media and justice system made a huge mistake.
No, Mueller was not "merely investigating". He made it very clear and explicit that he limited the scope of his investigation to evidence of criminal behavior that could be prosecuted in a court of law. That was in the report that you obviously did not read. That Alfa Bank issue was of no use to him, given the limited scope of his investigation, but it would have been pursued by a counterintelligence investigation, which apparently never really took place. Mueller handed materials off to DoJ that he thought were relevant to counterintelligence, but nobody can figure out what happened to them after that. The only thing I can agree with you on is that the justice system "made a huge mistake", but that was because it was being micromanaged by Donald Trump and his subordinates. The "mistakes" were deliberate obstruction of justice, and Mueller did spend a lot of time in the second half of his report explaining just what evidence he had for criminal obstruction of justice from the Trump administration. However, he conceded that the evidence was moot until Trump left office.
 
No, Mueller was not "merely investigating". He made it very clear and explicit that he limited the scope of his investigation to evidence of criminal behavior that could be prosecuted in a court of law.
It's a cop out, that's what it is. Alfa-Trump-server is a clear example of criminal behavior which can be overlooked if you really want. That's what Mueller did. It does not reflect well on him. And before you go and distort what I said claiming agreement with me, by criminal behavior I mean false report of a crime.
 

In September 2020, attorney and cybersecurity specialist Michael Sussmann was charged with lying to the FBI — an indictment that resulted from Special Counsel John H. Durham’s probe of the 2016 Russia investigation. Now, according to New York Times reporter Charlie Savage, Sussmann’s defense team is asking for the trial date to be set sooner than what the prosecution has requested.

And the team defending Sussman, who was part of a firm working for the Democratic Party in 2016, argued in the new filing that the case against him is even weaker than it initially appeared.

“Newly disclosed evidence” in the United States of America v. Michael A. Sussmann, according to Savage, could “make it harder for” Durham to “prove beyond a reasonable doubt that” Sussmann is “guilty of the charge against him: making a false statement to the FBI during a September 2016 meeting about possible links between Donald J. Trump and Russia.”




Durham was essentially instructed by former Attorney General Bill Barr to investigate a series of conspiracy theories pushed by Trump and his allies about the FBI's investigation into him and several campaign members' ties to Russia. So far, he has mostly come up empty. Though the indictment of Sussman lists a long series of incidents meant to suggest Democrats were illicitly conspiring to turn the FBI against Trump in the summer of 2016, the only crime he actually charged was that Sussman allegedly falsely claimed that he wasn't representing any clients when he spoke to a representative of the bureau about research on a possible Trump-Russia connection.

In the initial indictment, the evidence for that claim was surprisingly thin. But Sussman's lawyers argued in the new filing that the charge is even less reliable than it initially appeared because other evidence in the Justice Department's possession undermines the case that Sussman lied.

'The indictment centered on a September 2016 meeting between Mr. Sussmann and James A. Baker, who was then the FBI’s general counsel," as Savage explained. "Mr. Sussmann relayed analysis by cybersecurity researchers who cited odd internet data they said appeared to reflect some kind of covert communications between computer servers associated with the Trump Organization and Alfa Bank, a Kremlin-linked Russian financial institution."

Savage explained that according to Baker's own interview, it appears that Sussman never claimed he wasn't representing a client while speaking to the FBI:

In July 2019, Mr. Baker was interviewed by the Justice Department’s inspector general about the meeting. Mr. Baker stated, according to a two-page transcript excerpt, that Mr. Sussmann had brought him information “that he said related to strange interactions that some number of people that were his clients, who were, he described as I recall it, sort of cybersecurity experts, had found.”
The newly disclosed evidence also includes a page of a report Mr. Durham’s team made to
summarize an interview they conducted with Mr. Baker in June 2020. According to that report, Mr. Baker did not say that Mr. Sussmann told him he was not there on behalf of any client. Rather, he said the issue never came up and he merely assumed Mr. Sussmann was not conveying the Alfa Bank data and analysis for any client.

If this evidence holds up and isn't undermined by additional evidence from Durham, it may be very difficult to prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that Sussman lied at all to the FBI. That would be a huge blow to Durham's credibility, and it would further undercut Bill Barr's hopes of having his conspiracy theories vindicated.
 
Lie by omission.
Rubbish. Failing to answer a question that is never raised or relevant to the purpose of a meeting is not lying by omission. Even the Durham summary of the meeting clearly states "...Baker said that Sussman did not specify that he was representing a client regarding the matter, nor did Baker ask him if he was representing a client. Baker said it did not seem like Sussman was representing a client..." In fact, Sussman has always maintained that he was not there on behalf of the Clinton campaign or any other client and that he was only reporting facts that he felt the FBI should know about. Any responsible citizen would have done the same, whether they were involved with the DNC or not. Sussman's disclosure was unrelated to his firm's representation of the Clinton campaign.
 
Lie by omission.
Rubbish. Failing to answer a question that is never raised or relevant to the purpose of a meeting is not lying by omission. Even the Durham summary of the meeting clearly states "...Baker said that Sussman did not specify that he was representing a client regarding the matter, nor did Baker ask him if he was representing a client. Baker said it did not seem like Sussman was representing a client..." In fact, Sussman has always maintained that he was not there on behalf of the Clinton campaign or any other client and that he was only reporting facts that he felt the FBI should know about. Any responsible citizen would have done the same, whether they were involved with the DNC or not. Sussman's disclosure was unrelated to his firm's representation of the Clinton campaign.
Garbage!
 
The only times Alfa Bank was mentioned in the report is when the report refers to Petr Alven and Richard Burk. It says absolutely nothing about the Trump servers and the Alfa servers communicating.
Exactly! No mention of secret channel of communication. Why is that?
It could be that Mueller was limiting his investigation to evidence of a criminal conspiracy that would stand up in court. The Alfa Bank story was not that kind of evidence, and the question of its role would properly be part of the counterintelligence investigation that had been explicitly separated from Mueller's domestic focus. It appears that Mueller thought that the DoJ had a separate counterintelligence investigation going, but nobody knows whether it actually happened. Mueller made almost no mention of Alfa Bank, because it was outside of what he considered the scope of his investigation to be. It seems more than likely that the Trump administration simply dropped the counterintelligence probe without letting the public or Mueller know. You cannot conclude that Mueller's failure to say more about Alfa Bank was an endorsement of your speculation.
Horse shit. Mueller was not preparing to go to Court. He was merely investigating.
And stop implying that Alfa-Trump server conspiracy just was not up to the high standards. It is utter horse shit and this is why Alfa Bank is pursuing it.
Because they know they would win and because Putin told them - I need this shit.
Your media and justice system made a huge mistake.
Russians hacked the Dems, shared files with Wikileaks. Wikileaks used data to provide cover for Trump, especially during Pussygate.

Senior (as in everyone at the top but Trump) Trump campaign officials met with Russians with connections with Moscow at Trump Tower to discuss the campaign.

Paul Manafort provided polling data to a Ukrainian with Moscow links.

Trump engaged in a slow burn pro-Russia agenda, that provided Putin with cover, including trying to give back spy HQ in Maryland, unless Maryland Senator found out.

Trump met secretly with Putin.

These are all statements of fact.


We know for a fact that Putin was trying to weaken a Clinton Presidency. By luck, he helped sway America to vote for Trump.

We know that Trump made some decisions like taking America out of Clear Skys so Putin didn't have to.

We know Trump owes a lot of money, and not to American banks. Trump was in such a situation that he likely wouldn't have possibly gotten security clearance without being the President, he was that compromised.

And we also know that when Manafort became the campaign leader for Trump, Trump's campaign went oddly pro-Russia out of the blue. This was certainly one of the odder things that stood out. Because Russia wasn't a thing to Trump until Manafort.

We don't know if Trump Campaign and Kremlin directly coordinated for the 2016 campaign or if there was any quid quo pro.
 
Adam Shiff just admitted that Steel Dossier was garbage.

That would be newsworthy, if in fact he said anything of the sort, but I assume there is a reason why you would post something like this and not cite a source. You know that it is manufactured grade-A bullshit from one of your propaganda cites.

Let me guess, since I can usually go to a recent Fox News story to find a source for these little unsupported "barbos barbs" that you come up with to provoke reactions from people. You are likely referring to the recent news that Schiff defended the Steele dossier quite strongly but made the following statement during that defense:

"I don't regret saying that we should investigate claims of someone who, frankly, was a well-respected British intelligence officer," Schiff responded. "And we couldn’t have known, of course, years ago that we would learn years later that someone who is a primary source lied to him."

Fox News Spin: Rep. Adam Schiff: ‘I don’t regret’ hyping discredited Steele dossier

As anyone but a Fox News junky can see, that is not exactly an admission that the Steele dossier was garbage or even that it has been discredited. Schiff has been quite clear that most of the dossier has proven to be quite accurate. All he said here was that it wasn't perfect, nor was it ever presented to anyone as perfect fact. Steele's report was always quite clear that some of his information was uncorroborated rumor. Subsequent investigations did manage to corroborate much of its content, but not everything. That's why Schiff's committee was investigating it--to see what could be corroborated.
 
That would be newsworthy
Well, he was non as expressive. But yes, he admitted that.
He admitted that some of the Steel sources were garbage.
Steele himself admitted that some of his sources could be garbage.
Last time I saw Steele he stood by his sources.
When asked, Adam Shiff admitted (some) sources of the Steel dossier being garbage and then quickly switched to parts of Mueller investigation which were clearly true. Shiff clearly wanted to avoid talking about Steel's garbage dossier. And CNN itself clearly does not give much credence to dossier anymore.

I think Steele is an ass, he was asked to dig dirt on Trump and he did, not caring too much about sources. Now You will have Trump saying "It's all conspiracy against me"
And CNN will have no way to counter it.
 
When you tell the truth and someone doesn’t like the truth and says nuh-uhn, are you really required to attend to their dishonesty?

Right wing media howl about it, but the so-called Steele dossier has been proven right in many aspects, and none of it has ever been proven wrong, just troublesome to some people.

Not surprisingly, our Russian representative aligns himself with the TrumPutin axis…
 
Adam Shiff just admitted that Steel Dossier was garbage.

He admitted that some of the Steel sources were garbage.
@barbos; —
(1) Do you grasp that these statements may, and do, have different truth values?
(1a) (And do you grasp that it is obfuscation to call testimony taken in good faith "garbage"?)
(2) Do you grasp that exaggerating a possibly true statement into a false statement is, at best, confusing?
(3) Can you understand that such an exaggeration, if deliberate, shows intellectual dishonesty?
(4) Do you understand that gathering and evaluating intelligence in a hostile environment is not easy?
(5) If you think such sowing of confusion (or intellectual dishonesty) improves your debating position, please explain why.
 
On a personal note:
I'll guess that barbos has much to offer toward understanding Russia. For a while I read his posts, hoping to gain insight.

Unfortunately he has continually chosen to confuse, obfuscate, or exaggerate. It just isn't worth my time to wade through his posts in a vain attempt to learn about Russia.
 
Adam Shiff just admitted that Steel Dossier was garbage.

He admitted that some of the Steel sources were garbage.
@barbos; —
(1) Do you grasp that these statements may, and do, have different truth values?
(1a) (And do you grasp that it is obfuscation to call testimony taken in good faith "garbage"?)
(2) Do you grasp that exaggerating a possibly true statement into a false statement is, at best, confusing?
(3) Can you understand that such an exaggeration, if deliberate, shows intellectual dishonesty?
(4) Do you understand that gathering and evaluating intelligence in a hostile environment is not easy?
(5) If you think such sowing of confusion (or intellectual dishonesty) improves your debating position, please explain why.
You do understand when a politician has to admit something and use word "some" it really means "most" or even "all"?
Do you?

Even Hillary Clinton did not believe the dossier. She did not use it for that reason, and she turned out to be right. Learn to read between the lines.
Even in the Alfa-Trump case you could read that these people were lying without even knowing what DNS is.
 
On a personal note:
I'll guess that barbos has much to offer toward understanding Russia. For a while I read his posts, hoping to gain insight.

Unfortunately he has continually chosen to confuse, obfuscate, or exaggerate. It just isn't worth my time to wade through his posts in a vain attempt to learn about Russia.
I am not doing any of that.
 
I am unsure what the sub-topics du jour are about, but I'll add a few items that I think remain relevant for RussiaGate:
  • Trump said out loud, "Russia, if you're listening..." and that is pretty damning in and of itself. If you consider right now, all the crazy things he was going to try to do to stay in power, like declaring a National Security Emergency due to secret, alleged "foreign interference," but yet here he was doing it out in the open, or at least asking for it out in the open. If you think RussiaGate is nonsense, you still are not absolved from conceding this unethical, out in the open, and half the problem of foreign interference since it asked for interference;
  • Roger Stone worked with Guccifer 2.0 in some ways and he refused to admit a bunch of things. The lack of admission does not absolve him of anything;
  • Guccifer 2.0 did a bunch of things and was connected to Russia in some ways;
  • In regard to the dossier, whether it was authentic or not may be a red herring in some ways. What actually happened is that the campaign was willing to meet with people directly, including foreigners over the issue. Donald Trump Jr's "I love it!" was damning in and of itself. The meeting was damning. The note sent to FBI from Jr but dictated by Twitler to try to get out of it was yet another example of more shenanigans;
  • There remain a number of misdeeds and crimes related to the issue where there were convictions. BUT there are also a lot of people who STFU and remained tight-lipped.
 
I have a feeling that something horrible will be staged for whenever the report from the House 1/6 committee is due to be released. I think they’ll have a good enough case that the Repugs’ only recourse will be to try to keep anyone from seeing it or hearing about it.
 
I'm old enough to have lived through the last years of the Cold War, and it is still almost too much to believe that many right-wingers seem fond of Russia. But they are, despite having considered the nation a great villain only 40 years ago. They don't even acknowledge that change. They don't say "Russia was bad while it was Communist, but it's now right-wing nationalist, and that makes it good."
 
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