RussiaGate

[Elixir]

You're foremost pro-bullshit. Misinformation, incoherence, illiteracy and ignorance are your values.

Trolls will be trolls... some are more interesting than others. At least barbos seems intelligent, and offers some actual insight into a different mindset. I don't really need any insight into mindlessness... so I took Opoponax's advice.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

They have done a better job with Kushner but it seems based on current information the passing of information on Clinton may not have taken place.

The information was hacked and passed through Julian Assange and Wikileaks from the Russians. We know that.

Here are the other thing we now know:

Emails from the DNC were stolen by Russia

The following people were at the meeting:

From the Trump campaign:

• Donald Trump Jr.
• Paul Manafort
• Jared Kushner

The Middleman:

• Rob Goldstone, music producer who works closely with Ike Kaveladze and Donald Trump on the Miss Universe pageant in Moscow.

The Russians:

• Natalia Veselnitskaya Lawyer lobbyist for the repeal of the Magnitsky Act.
• Anatoli Samochornov The supposed translator and lawyer working with Veselnitskaya for the repeal of the Magnitsky Act.
• Rinat Akhmetshin The suspected FGB operative, known master hacker also working with Veselnitskaya for the repeal of the Magnitsky Act.
• Ike Kaveladze A Crocus Group vice president, which was prevented from building Trump Tower in Moscow and St Petersburg by the Magnitsky Act.

Now let's look at the Russian adoption angle. If they were to talk about Russian orphan adoption, there is one known way that Russia will reopen the flow of orphans to the United States: the repeal of the Magnitsky Act and end the sanctions against Russia.

Now let's look at money laundering: All four Russians are well connected to Russian oligarchs who launder money in the United States which has been more difficult thanks to the Magnitsky Act. And as I type this more information is coming out about the money laundering and they web of individuals these folks are connected with.

Now let's look at the two closed Russian compounds, they were closed because of the Magnitsky Act.

 

[whichphilosophy]

They have done a better job with Kushner but it seems based on current information the passing of information on Clinton may not have taken place.

The information was hacked and passed through Julian Assange and Wikileaks from the Russians. We know that.

Here are the other thing we now know:

Emails from the DNC were stolen by Russia

The following people were at the meeting:

From the Trump campaign:

• Donald Trump Jr.
• Paul Manafort
• Jared Kushner

The Middleman:

• Rob Goldstone, music producer who works closely with Ike Kaveladze and Donald Trump on the Miss Universe pageant in Moscow.

The Russians:

• Natalia Veselnitskaya Lawyer lobbyist for the repeal of the Magnitsky Act.
• Anatoli Samochornov The supposed translator and lawyer working with Veselnitskaya for the repeal of the Magnitsky Act.
• Rinat Akhmetshin The suspected FGB operative, known master hacker also working with Veselnitskaya for the repeal of the Magnitsky Act.
• Ike Kaveladze A Crocus Group vice president, which was prevented from building Trump Tower in Moscow and St Petersburg by the Magnitsky Act.

Now let's look at the Russian adoption angle. If they were to talk about Russian orphan adoption, there is one known way that Russia will reopen the flow of orphans to the United States: the repeal of the Magnitsky Act and end the sanctions against Russia.

Now let's look at money laundering: All four Russians are well connected to Russian oligarchs who launder money in the United States which has been more difficult thanks to the Magnitsky Act. And as I type this more information is coming out about the money laundering and they web of individuals these folks are connected with.

Now let's look at the two closed Russian compounds, they were closed because of the Magnitsky Act.

You would do a better job than the current secret services. Trace centres have a habit of being clearing houses for spies.

A tan coloured cork board on the wall and name cards stuck on can be linked with a piece of string held on drawing pins. Old fashioned but interesting.

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You're foremost pro-bullshit. Misinformation, incoherence, illiteracy and ignorance are your values.

Trolls will be trolls... some are more interesting than others. At least barbos seems intelligent, and offers some actual insight into a different mindset. I don't really need any insight into mindlessness... so I took Opoponax's advice.

See Nice Squirrel's post. That's what I mean. He did some good homework here.

 

[whichphilosophy]

I don’t think you get my points at all and confuse comments on inconclusive as denial.
I’m not a supporter of any of the 2 main political parties in the U.S.A though generally favoured the Democrats in the past. My view during the last election was Trump was slightly less bad than Hilary.

You're foremost pro-bullshit. Misinformation, incoherence, illiteracy and ignorance are your values.

If you are responding to the 2 sentences you quoted, your reply does not follow.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Comrade, the media are not the ones conducting the investigation.

Correct, the media is not the law of the land. And see above, UNCLASSIFIED. There is much we do not know.

If there was something conclusive it would without a doubt lead to something. There is a lot the investigation does not know also and of course what we don't know. We cannot really speculate with great accuracy on the unknown unless there are some more facts.

 

[Warpoet]

Correct, the media is not the law of the land. And see above, UNCLASSIFIED. There is much we do not know.

If there's one source of comfort in all this, it's that Mueller and a team of world-class prosecutors are working on this behind closed doors and likely know a lot of those things which we don't. And sooner or later they're going to get to the bottom of it and come for those responsible. The question is whether or not Trump will be held accountable, or if he can abuse his power to get him and his cronies out of dodge. It will be one of the most important questions we ever face as a country.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Correct, the media is not the law of the land. And see above, UNCLASSIFIED. There is much we do not know.

If there's one source of comfort in all this, it's that Mueller and a team of world-class prosecutors are working on this behind closed doors and likely know a lot of those things which we don't. And sooner or later they're going to get to the bottom of it and come for those responsible. The question is whether or not Trump will be held accountable, or if he can abuse his power to get him and his cronies out of dodge. It will be one of the most important questions we ever face as a country.

If they 'know' anything that can move things forward they will. They have a lot of loose ends to go through and some dead ends. That's the way investigations work.

The problem is most are assuming things that are not known. We still don't know how this will end. If no information about Hilary was passed on then there is not such a lot to go on.

 

[blastula]

See Nice Squirrel's post. That's what I mean. He did some good homework here.

You mean you agree that "The information was hacked and passed through Julian Assange and Wikileaks from the Russians. We know that"?

You have never said anything remotely like what NS posted.

 

[Elixir]

Correct, the media is not the law of the land. And see above, UNCLASSIFIED. There is much we do not know.

If there's one source of comfort in all this, it's that Mueller and a team of world-class prosecutors are working on this behind closed doors and likely know a lot of those things which we don't. And sooner or later they're going to get to the bottom of it and come for those responsible. The question is whether or not Trump will be held accountable, or if he can abuse his power to get him and his cronies out of dodge. It will be one of the most important questions we ever face as a country.

Well ... right now Cheato is certainly acting like "fuck it - if they indict us all I'll pardon everyone and then Mikey will pardon me and we'll all live happily ever after".

 

[starwater]

then follow your own advice.

- - - Updated - - -

Correct, the media is not the law of the land. And see above, UNCLASSIFIED. There is much we do not know.

If there was something conclusive it would without a doubt lead to something. There is a lot the investigation does not know also and of course what we don't know. We cannot really speculate with great accuracy on the unknown unless there are some more facts.

then follow you own advice

 

[whichphilosophy]

See Nice Squirrel's post. That's what I mean. He did some good homework here.

You mean you agree that "The information was hacked and passed through Julian Assange and Wikileaks from the Russians. We know that"?

You have never said anything remotely like what NS posted.

I'm complimenting his initial research. There are always questions. However there is no confirmation the Russians passed it in this way. That doesn't mean they didn't do it or did do it.


- - - Updated - - -

then follow your own advice.

- - - Updated - - -

If there was something conclusive it would without a doubt lead to something. There is a lot the investigation does not know also and of course what we don't know. We cannot really speculate with great accuracy on the unknown unless there are some more facts.

then follow you own advice

I do as I have been pointing out the speculation.

 

[Copernicus]

If there's one source of comfort in all this, it's that Mueller and a team of world-class prosecutors are working on this behind closed doors and likely know a lot of those things which we don't. And sooner or later they're going to get to the bottom of it and come for those responsible. The question is whether or not Trump will be held accountable, or if he can abuse his power to get him and his cronies out of dodge. It will be one of the most important questions we ever face as a country.

If they 'know' anything that can move things forward they will. They have a lot of loose ends to go through and some dead ends. That's the way investigations work.

The problem is most are assuming things that are not known. We still don't know how this will end. If no information about Hilary was passed on then there is not such a lot to go on.

There are conflicting reports on whether the three stooges were left with a folder of such information. However, the plan appears to have been an offer of help with the smear campaign against Hillary Clinton in return for removal of the sanctions after Trump won the election. The form of that help need not have been actual hard copy information passed on at that meeting, although Trump did publicly claim he was going to release such information on Hillary at the time. He did not go ahead with his threat, but a month later (July), he publicly called on Russia to "find" her lost emails. The Russians were already in possession of the material when the June meeting had occurred. So he and the Russians may have decided that the releases of information would be more effective if timed for release at strategic points in the campaign. The timing of the releases appears to have followed that pattern.

 

[whichphilosophy]

If they 'know' anything that can move things forward they will. They have a lot of loose ends to go through and some dead ends. That's the way investigations work.

The problem is most are assuming things that are not known. We still don't know how this will end. If no information about Hilary was passed on then there is not such a lot to go on.

There are conflicting reports on whether the three stooges were left with a folder of such information. However, the plan appears to have been an offer of help with the smear campaign against Hillary Clinton in return for removal of the sanctions after Trump won the election. The form of that help need not have been actual hard copy information passed on at that meeting, although Trump did publicly claim he was going to release such information on Hillary at the time. He did not go ahead with his threat, but a month later (July), he publicly called on Russia to "find" her lost emails. The Russians were already in possession of the material when the June meeting had occurred. So he and the Russians may have decided that the releases of information would be more effective if timed for release at strategic points in the campaign. The timing of the releases appears to have followed that pattern.

There's no fault in my view with your postulate as something like this as you have put it could have happened and thus presents a line of investigation to follow.

Though it's difficult to gauge an impact on an audience but seeing what was broadcast when would be of interest.

There again I would have one question on this to add. If RTV had such information which it could broadcast anyway, there would be no need to pass this to the Trump campaign other than to let this filter into right wing media and through campaign outlets. This is more than a widening of the search and not a narrowing.

 

[Opoponax]

Correct, the media is not the law of the land. And see above, UNCLASSIFIED. There is much we do not know.

If there's one source of comfort in all this, it's that Mueller and a team of world-class prosecutors are working on this behind closed doors and likely know a lot of those things which we don't. And sooner or later they're going to get to the bottom of it and come for those responsible. The question is whether or not Trump will be held accountable, or if he can abuse his power to get him and his cronies out of dodge. It will be one of the most important questions we ever face as a country.

Agreed. When Reagan got out of Iran-Contra it set a precedent that a POTUS, particularly a Republican one, can get away with anything. This is an opportunity to right that wrong. To show that such gross abuse of power and corruption is intolerable.

Of course, we have to wait and see what Mueller finds, but at the pace this thing is going, and with what's already been revealed (by Slimeball Jr. himself, no less), it is difficult to believe that the investigators are going to come out and say, "Guess what, Trump's as clean as a whistle and did nothing wrong!" While not inconceivable, it's incredibly unlikely.

The other part of this is the GOP. After Bush/Cheney and there 8 years of utter fuckery, and after their efforts to kill off and cause the suffering of tens of millions of Americans, will enough people finally give up on them? And will people finally show up to vote? If that doesn't happen, then this may all be moot. A grave concern is that between the coasts, Americans don't care about this Russia thing all that much. What should be a 10-alarm fire bell is barely a blip on their radar.

I guess I have to conclude as I so often do: we're so fucked.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If there's one source of comfort in all this, it's that Mueller and a team of world-class prosecutors are working on this behind closed doors and likely know a lot of those things which we don't. And sooner or later they're going to get to the bottom of it and come for those responsible. The question is whether or not Trump will be held accountable, or if he can abuse his power to get him and his cronies out of dodge. It will be one of the most important questions we ever face as a country.

Agreed. When Reagan got out of Iran-Contra it set a precedent that a POTUS, particularly a Republican one, can get away with anything. This is an opportunity to right that wrong. To show that such gross abuse of power and corruption is intolerable.

Of course, we have to wait and see what Mueller finds, but at the pace this thing is going, and with what's already been revealed (by Slimeball Jr. himself, no less), it is difficult to believe that the investigators are going to come out and say, "Guess what, Trump's as clean as a whistle and did nothing wrong!" While not inconceivable, it's incredibly unlikely.

The other part of this is the GOP. After Bush/Cheney and there 8 years of utter fuckery, and after their efforts to kill off and cause the suffering of tens of millions of Americans, will enough people finally give up on them? And will people finally show up to vote? If that doesn't happen, then this may all be moot. A grave concern is that between the coasts, Americans don't care about this Russia thing all that much. What should be a 10-alarm fire bell is barely a blip on their radar.

I guess I have to conclude as I so often do: we're so fucked.

Simply put, vaccinations. There is nothing by far in mankind's existence to have better'd our standard of living than vaccinations. The benefits of vaccinations can be easily seen, and the consequences of them are virtually nonexistent.

Yet, we have anti-vac'ers and herd immunity is in danger. Mankind are dumb and make to decide dumb decision thingies. We dumed!

Clinton and Obama have relatively successful presidencies, finish the job with great approval ratings... yet W and Trump won the following election. People are dumb... we dumed.

 

[Elixir]

People are dumb... we dumed.

In the immortal words of Linus (of "Peanuts" fame): "I love mankind. It's people I can't stand."

 

[starwater]

CNN is reporting that number 8 at the meeting is linked to money laundering.

 

[Elixir]

CNN is reporting that number 8 at the meeting is linked to money laundering.

That's what the whole thing is about - they're ALL connected to money laundering. The Magnitsky Act represents a barrier to certain means of money laundering, and every single person in that meeting REALLY wants it to go away. When they say "adoption", they might as well say "mob money". Trump was elected with laundered Russian money, his failed business was rescued by laundered Russian money and the guy who has the goods on him is still sitting on billions - maybe hundreds of billions - in dirty money that still needs laundering. It's an urgent situation.

 

[starwater]

CNN is reporting that number 8 at the meeting is linked to money laundering.

That's what the whole thing is about - they're ALL connected to money laundering. The Magnitsky Act represents a barrier to certain means of money laundering, and every single person in that meeting REALLY wants it to go away. When they say "adoption", they might as well say "mob money". Trump was elected with laundered Russian money, his failed business was rescued by laundered Russian money and the guy who has the goods on him is still sitting on billions - maybe hundreds of billions - in dirty money that still needs laundering. It's an urgent situation.

Yikes.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

CNN is reporting that number 8 at the meeting is linked to money laundering.

He was merely drafted by the Russian mob, so it's not his fault.