RussiaGate

[Sea of red]

He's finished.

When you start talking about pardons, you know you're on the road to indictments.

People don't understand that the probe into Trumps campaign has never been about emails, or anything like that. Such a connection is difficult to prove, even with people as stupid as the Trumps. But money? That's easy to trace and prove criminal intent.

FISA warrants don't go out to prove some people might have knowledge of leaked emails, or be working with Wikileaks, but they do go out to people that are moving money.

 

[Copernicus]

Talk of pardons for family and cronies must make good sense to him, because those are the people who will be pressured by Mueller to make a deal. With the possibility of a pardon, they might feel less inclined to cooperate. In any case, Trump is looking at his options. He could probably have those pardons written up and ready to go for his signature at a moment's notice and as needed. It is unlikely that Congress will move quickly to impeach or that his cabinet will feel inclined to declare him incapacitated. So he has a free hand to do what he pleases in the foreseeable future. What happens in the midterm elections is a long way off, and Trump may feel that he has very little to lose by taking drastic measures to save himself.

 

[Sea of red]

Talk of pardons for family and cronies must make good sense to him, because those are the people who will be pressured by Mueller to make a deal. With the possibility of a pardon, they might feel less inclined to cooperate. In any case, Trump is looking at his options. He could probably have those pardons written up and ready to go for his signature at a moment's notice and as needed. It is unlikely that Congress will move quickly to impeach or that his cabinet will feel inclined to declare him incapacitated. So he has a free hand to do what he pleases in the foreseeable future. What happens in the midterm elections is a long way off, and Trump may feel that he has very little to lose by taking drastic measures to save himself.

When Ford pardoned Nixon it ruined his chances at being re-elected, and cost the GOP seats. The public outrage rivaled that of the Saturday Night Massacre. When Bush pardoned all those in Iran-Contra it was similar - though not as severe.

If Trump pardons everybody related to this probe, it will fuck the GOP for a long time to come.

Yeah, his base will love him no matter what - all the 20% of them. But everybody else will be disgusted with the GOP for grooming such a corrupt family into power, and failing at their promises anyways.

 

[Deepak]

Talk of pardons for family and cronies must make good sense to him, because those are the people who will be pressured by Mueller to make a deal. With the possibility of a pardon, they might feel less inclined to cooperate. In any case, Trump is looking at his options. He could probably have those pardons written up and ready to go for his signature at a moment's notice and as needed. It is unlikely that Congress will move quickly to impeach or that his cabinet will feel inclined to declare him incapacitated. So he has a free hand to do what he pleases in the foreseeable future. What happens in the midterm elections is a long way off, and Trump may feel that he has very little to lose by taking drastic measures to save himself.

Being pardoned will also remove fifth amendment protection, so anyone who gets time in the clink could be compelled to testify. The tactical approach would be to take down his inner circle piecemeal and see if they get pardons or commuted sentences - but honestly I don't think that would be the appropriate approach in a sensible world. I'd be quite happy to have Trump and the cartoonish villains he's connected to get pardoned and live their lives in infamy if it means they're removed from power.

Though it seems that the Republican members of Congress haven't yet hit rock-bottom - so it's likely the investigation will turn up their findings before the midterm elections.

 

[whichphilosophy]

That you quoted them is irrelevant. You said "this report disputes the accuracy of the ABC report." But it does not in any way do so. The part you quoted doesn't do so. You are wrong/ illiterate/ confused/ malicious troll. Take your pick. Just go away.

This is the last part.
the question raised by the ABC report was the possibility that Trump might use the office of president to benefit his own finances, while the blog posts asserted that Trump’s relationship with Russia had less to do with business than with cozying up to the Kremlin — a claim that was not made by the original source of the story. End of Quote

Well it was getting boring for a while without tirades of abuse here and there.

Further to this, where there is a possibility, more research is required for it is not an established fact.

Possibility does not equal Certainty.
Maybe can also equal Maybe Not.

Whether he did all these things is not the issue under evaluation.

It is the validity and qualitative nature of the media presentation of information often based on sketchy anonymous leaks. One may start an investigation but iuntil that is done there is no indefeasibility.

Hard research rather than the low standard of media fanfares is what is lacking.

This does not invalidate the rights of people to hold their own beliefs on the subject.

 

[Juma]

That you quoted them is irrelevant. You said "this report disputes the accuracy of the ABC report." But it does not in any way do so. The part you quoted doesn't do so. You are wrong/ illiterate/ confused/ malicious troll. Take your pick. Just go away.

This is the last part.
the question raised by the ABC report was the possibility that Trump might use the office of president to benefit his own finances, while the blog posts asserted that Trump’s relationship with Russia had less to do with business than with cozying up to the Kremlin — a claim that was not made by the original source of the story. End of Quote

Further to this, where there is a possibility, more research is required for it is not an established fact. Indeed the world is full of possibilities but hard research is required without a media fanfare.

Because someone only says that it is a possibility doesnt make it a non-fact.
On the contrary: it is fucking obvious that he has used his prdcidency for personal enrichment.

 

[Ford]

This is the last part.
the question raised by the ABC report was the possibility that Trump might use the office of president to benefit his own finances, while the blog posts asserted that Trump’s relationship with Russia had less to do with business than with cozying up to the Kremlin — a claim that was not made by the original source of the story. End of Quote

Further to this, where there is a possibility, more research is required for it is not an established fact. Indeed the world is full of possibilities but hard research is required without a media fanfare.

Because someone only says that it is a possibility doesnt make it a non-fact.
On the contrary: it is fucking obvious that he has used his prdcidency for personal enrichment.

You have to understand that WP is coming at this from an assumption that Trump is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Then is still innocent until the appeals process is exhausted. Then is still innocent because the courts, the law, and the appeals process are all corrupt.

You're arguing with someone who takes Trump's innocence in all things as a matter of faith.

 

[whichphilosophy]

He's finished.

When you start talking about pardons, you know you're on the road to indictments.

People don't understand that the probe into Trumps campaign has never been about emails, or anything like that. Such a connection is difficult to prove, even with people as stupid as the Trumps. But money? That's easy to trace and prove criminal intent.

FISA warrants don't go out to prove some people might have knowledge of leaked emails, or be working with Wikileaks, but they do go out to people that are moving money.

Money is not that easy to trace and takes time.

It is also a possibility that money going from Russia to Delaware has been cleaned at some point via Panama or Cyprus which are two popular laundries and filters for the Russian Mafia.

 

[ZiprHead]

Also from the WaPo article.:

He has told aides he was especially disturbed after learning Mueller would be able to access several years of his tax returns.

 

[Opoponax]

Also from the WaPo article.:

He has told aides he was especially disturbed after learning Mueller would be able to access several years of his tax returns.

Of the many things that will confound me until the day a die, this is one of them. Why were Republicans and Trump fans willing to overlook this? That he has something seriously detrimental to hide is an understatement, even by Captain Obvious standards. And it was inevitable that it would come back to bite him.

Some people won't even run for city council seats because they don't want personal dirty laundry that wouldn't even have legal consequences aired about them. Yet Trump thought that as POTUS he could hide from anything? I want to say that I'd like to know who advised him on this, but I don't think it matters because he doesn't know how to heed wise advice.

Who knows what his tax returns will show? I think that for sure we're going to find out that he's nowhere near as wealthy as he claims. And I wonder if that's what he was hiding. He claimed to be worth $10 billion, but that's certainly not true. I keep thinking "so what?" that's really not that big of a deal. But if that is the case, it's just one more affirmation that his ego is so incredibly fragile that for him to be sitting in any seat of power is frightening.

This is beginning to feel like the last season of a great TV show, where the main character is going to go down hard, we just don't know exactly how.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Also from the WaPo article.:

He has told aides he was especially disturbed after learning Mueller would be able to access several years of his tax returns.

Icarus is scared to death. He barely survived his casino run and needed to commit massive stock fraud to save his ass. Banks in the US were tired of repo'ing his yachts and planes, so they stopped giving him money. Enter the Russian Mob.

Icarus would have been better to stay away from the White House. He has burnt every bridge he possibly could have used and is in great danger, which explains why his idiot lawyers are leaking like amateurs about how little they know about the Constitution... and talks of firing Mueller, because Trump knows his goose is cooked.

Trump being the "TV star" knows he only has one viable option, hiring a young kid to be a new child at the White House. It has been done repeatedly when shows begin to run out of material, and it is usually a hail mary throw. But mark my words, a new child, a cute 8 year old named Stephanie will debut at the White House soon. It won't work, but it is his only option.

 

[Keith&Co.]

He has told aides he was especially disturbed after learning Mueller would be able to access several years of his tax returns.

That just doesn't sound in character...

Now, if they said "Tourists in the WH heard Trump completely lose his shit when aides told him that Mueller could access several years of tax returns..."

 

[Keith&Co.]

Trump being the "TV star" knows he only has one viable option, hiring a young kid to be a new child at the White House. It has been done repeatedly when shows begin to run out of material,

Or they change the setting... Move the White House to LA or Florida, see if that inspires the writers with new jokes...

 

[Deepak]

Also from the WaPo article.:

He has told aides he was especially disturbed after learning Mueller would be able to access several years of his tax returns.

Icarus is scared to death. He barely survived his casino run and needed to commit massive stock fraud to save his ass. Banks in the US were tired of repo'ing his yachts and planes, so they stopped giving him money. Enter the Russian Mob.

Icarus would have been better to stay away from the White House. He has burnt every bridge he possibly could have used and is in great danger, which explains why his idiot lawyers are leaking like amateurs about how little they know about the Constitution... and talks of firing Mueller, because Trump knows his goose is cooked.

Trump being the "TV star" knows he only has one viable option, hiring a young kid to be a new child at the White House. It has been done repeatedly when shows begin to run out of material, and it is usually a hail mary throw. But mark my words, a new child, a cute 8 year old named Stephanie will debut at the White House soon. It won't work, but it is his only option.

Here's to hoping he gives Ted McGinley an ambassadorship...

 

[Deepak]

Also from the WaPo article.:

He has told aides he was especially disturbed after learning Mueller would be able to access several years of his tax returns.

Of the many things that will confound me until the day a die, this is one of them. Why were Republicans and Trump fans willing to overlook this? That he has something seriously detrimental to hide is an understatement, even by Captain Obvious standards. And it was inevitable that it would come back to bite him.

Some people won't even run for city council seats because they don't want personal dirty laundry that wouldn't even have legal consequences aired about them. Yet Trump thought that as POTUS he could hide from anything? I want to say that I'd like to know who advised him on this, but I don't think it matters because he doesn't know how to heed wise advice.

Who knows what his tax returns will show? I think that for sure we're going to find out that he's nowhere near as wealthy as he claims. And I wonder if that's what he was hiding. He claimed to be worth $10 billion, but that's certainly not true. I keep thinking "so what?" that's really not that big of a deal. But if that is the case, it's just one more affirmation that his ego is so incredibly fragile that for him to be sitting in any seat of power is frightening.

This is beginning to feel like the last season of a great TV show, where the main character is going to go down hard, we just don't know exactly how.

My feeling is that he didn't think he was going to win the election - certainly his reaction on election night seemed curiously unenthusiastic. He was likely hoping to get a bunch of free publicity, give the Russian connections an 'oh well', and cash in on whatever favors he had earned in the process of making American democracy look like a farce. I'm not as confounded by the first part - the Rs base were largely motivated by deep cynicism and were happy to take on anyone who could fog a mirror and spit in the eye of "Liberals". This was a logical extension of the Palinphilia we saw previously, she wrassled with their political opposition and otherwise was a vessel as empty as her mind for them.

The same was true for Trump, where many people were commenting that the Fundagelicals would never vote for him, when the reality (if you listened to them) was that he was sufficiently similar, never mind that he couldn't quote Psalms 23, because he trolled costal elites, never mind that he himself was a coastal elite.

 

[Keith&Co.]

My feeling is that he didn't think he was going to win the election - certainly his reaction on election night seemed curiously unenthusiastic.

Well, don't call the shot,
if you can't stand in the spot.

All perfectly valid analysis. I don't think he expected or wanted to be where he is, now.
But it still boggles the mind that so many people defended his running on an 'I'm a wealthy businessman' platform without providing details on the extent and source of his wealth.

 

[starwater]

My feeling is that he didn't think he was going to win the election - certainly his reaction on election night seemed curiously unenthusiastic.

Well, don't call the shot,
if you can't stand in the spot.

All perfectly valid analysis. I don't think he expected or wanted to be where he is, now.
But it still boggles the mind that so many people defended his running on an 'I'm a wealthy businessman' platform without providing details on the extent and source of his wealth.

Interesting analysis. Going back through some of his comments during the election, this could be very true.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Trump being the "TV star" knows he only has one viable option, hiring a young kid to be a new child at the White House. It has been done repeatedly when shows begin to run out of material,

Or they change the setting... Move the White House to LA or Florida, see if that inspires the writers with new jokes...

With this White House, jokes aren't the problem.

 

[Keith&Co.]

With this White House, jokes aren't the problem.

No, no, that's EXACTLY the problem, here.
I mean, in vaudeville, there was a drum or a slide whistle to indicate 'that was a joke, he was joking, no one intended this to be taken seriously. You can laugh, s'alright.'

Reagan always did that wheezing laugh/cough thing to indicate that HE thought he'd made a funny.

Now? Half the time you're not sure if ANYONE could seriously say 'I'm not under investigation, why would I be? I've done nothing wrong?' or 'Honey, take daddy's seat at the summit, please. Or throw the Pokeball at the Department of Education, shouting 'DeVos, I choose you!'

...But then you find that they were serious....'

Speaking as a life-long class clown, I have to say, if you don't know whether to laugh or cry, that's a problem with the jokes!

 

[Elixir]

Or they change the setting... Move the White House to LA or Florida, see if that inspires the writers with new jokes...

With this White House, jokes aren't the problem.

Well... there's one big fat orange joke who IS the problem. He's been our problem for while. Now it looks like he is going to be his own problem.
On the brighter side, my massive investment in the Predictit.org bet that he'll be out of office by 12/31/18 took a big jump in the last 24 hours.