• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

RussiaGate

It was really shrewd of Putin to also ensure the Congressional elections that year exactly mirrored what we'd expect to see if the gerrymandered US voting population naturally skewed toward Trump's brand of Republican populism on its own

Funny you say "mirrored":

[T]he total vote differential between the two parties for elections to the House in 2016 was 1.2 percent. But the difference in the number of seats is 10.8 percent, giving a total of 21 extra seats to Republicans.
...
In red states (see Figure 2), Republicans garnered 56 percent of the vote but 74.6 percent of representation. In blue states, Democrats won 60.3 percent of the vote but 69.1 percent of representation.
...
Two states are “flipped blue states;”in Virginia and Wisconsin Republicans received a majority of seats despite Democrats winning a majority of the votes for Congress.
Ohio's districting map was just found to be illegal... only took 9ish years. 4 seats for Dems, 12 for Repubs. We even have one non-contiguous district.

I already did the numbers for 2014 to 2018 indicating how awful the gerrymandering is.

2014 Election

Republicans - 51.2% of vote
Democrats - 45.5% of vote

59 seat majority for Republicans with less than 5.7% margin of victory.

2016 Election

Republicans - 48.2% of vote
Democrats - 47.3% of vote

47 seat majority for Republicans with less than 1% margin of victory.

2018 Election

Republicans - 45.5% of vote
Democrats - 52.7% of vote

Democrats have 31 seat majority via a 7.2% margin of victory.
 
It was really shrewd of Putin to also ensure the Congressional elections that year exactly mirrored what we'd expect to see if the gerrymandered US voting population naturally skewed toward Trump's brand of Republican populism on its own

Funny you say "mirrored":

[T]he total vote differential between the two parties for elections to the House in 2016 was 1.2 percent. But the difference in the number of seats is 10.8 percent, giving a total of 21 extra seats to Republicans.
...
In red states (see Figure 2), Republicans garnered 56 percent of the vote but 74.6 percent of representation. In blue states, Democrats won 60.3 percent of the vote but 69.1 percent of representation.
...
Two states are “flipped blue states;”in Virginia and Wisconsin Republicans received a majority of seats despite Democrats winning a majority of the votes for Congress.

Right, that's exactly what a heavily gerrymandered election would be expected to look like in a year where Republican ideas were gaining traction. They always have those kinds of differentials.
 
Right, that's exactly what a heavily gerrymandered election would be expected to look like in a year where Republican ideas were gaining traction.

No, actually, that's what it would look like where Democrats are outvoting republicans in their own "blue states," yet losing seats, because of certain districts being restructured.

Regardless, what has any of this got to do with Russian information warfare strategy, other than further supporting it? Their main goal, evidently was to suppress primarily black voters (but Hispanic as well), while inciting primarily rural whites into voting. The effective percentages we're talking about are on the order of 1%, well within the 1.2% threshold seen in the House race as well as within the general that resulted in a flip of what was otherwise a blue election (i.e., Clinton won the popular vote).

If you're trying to argue that the House race somehow proves that there was no influence effect, then please make that argument, because right now, you have not. Again, the Russian influencing began at least two to three years before the election, so how would you know what percentage (if any) did or did not effect the House races as well, especially, and again when we're talking about such small percentages being the deciding factors?
 
Right, that's exactly what a heavily gerrymandered election would be expected to look like in a year where Republican ideas were gaining traction.

No, actually, that's what it would look like where Democrats are outvoting republicans in their own "blue states," yet losing seats, because of certain districts being restructured.
That's what "heavily gerrymandered" means, so... yes, actually. I never said Republican ideas had majority support, just that they were on the upswing in 2016 and that was enough to be pushed over the finish line electorally with the help of skewed district lines.

Regardless, what has any of this got to do with Russian information warfare strategy, other than further supporting it? Their main goal, evidently was to suppress primarily black voters (but Hispanic as well), while inciting primarily rural whites into voting. The effective percentages we're talking about are on the order of 1%, well within the 1.2% threshold seen in the House race as well as within the general that resulted in a flip of what was otherwise a blue election (i.e., Clinton won the popular vote).

If you're trying to argue that the House race somehow proves that there was no influence effect, then please make that argument, because right now, you have not. Again, the Russian influencing began at least two to three years before the election, so how would you know what percentage (if any) did or did not effect the House races as well, especially, and again when we're talking about such small percentages being the deciding factors?
I can't prove a negative, of course, but if the argument for significant Russian influence in 2016 is that the Presidential election was stolen from its rightful winner in a way that distinguishes that year from other elections (and from the ordinary degree of non-democracy we tolerate in both the electoral college itself and gerrymandered districts), that claim would have been a lot more convincing if the Republicans did not also win most of the Congressional elections happening simultaneously. It would have been easier to regard Trump as an anomaly that requires outside influence to explain if the rest of the contests didn't elevate Republicans who agreed with Trump to positions of power across the country. You could claim that these Republican wins were driven in part by a more general propaganda campaign, but that account of events is so dilute as to be meaningless. Voters get their information from many sources domestic and international, almost none of which are reliable, almost all of which have cynical reasons to shape public opinion in their favor.

The importance of Russian meddling in US politics would have been a slam-dunk case if a Clinton landslide were transformed into a Trump win, in other words; and presidents don't usually win in landslides without also gaining in the other branches of government. So, the fact that the Congressional elections were so victorious for Republicans that year should make you question just how much help Trump actually needed.
 
I can't prove a negative, of course, but if the argument for significant Russian influence in 2016 is that the Presidential election was stolen from its rightful winner in a way that distinguishes that year from other elections (and from the ordinary degree of non-democracy we tolerate in both the electoral college itself and gerrymandered districts), that claim would have been a lot more convincing if the Republicans did not also win most of the Congressional elections happening simultaneously.

First of all, in regard to "significant" we're talking about small percentages, not massive numbers. Secondly, how? Again, the Russian "immersion" tactic started two-to-three years prior and consisted primarily of efforts to stop Democrats from voting (aka, voter suppression), while at the same time inciting alt-right "strong-tie" whites and their secondary social connections to get out and vote.

Suppress Democrat voters; increase Republican voters.

Why would that not also have an effect on House races?

You could claim that these Republican wins were driven in part by a more general propaganda campaign, but that account of events is so dilute as to be meaningless.

No, it isnt in fact. Precisely the opposite as the actual studies prove. To get into that, you'd need to actually read the studies and understand the immersive "media mirage" tactics that the IRA used. Here, again, is the Senate Intel Committee commissioned report that goes into detail about the numerous different tactics employed.

They note the following:

This data set does not include enough information to make a strong assessment about the extent to which the IRA operation had a significant influence on the election. However, the organic content does offer insights into the extent to which the IRA’s memes and messages resonated with its target audiences, and the ways in which they evolved their political messages in some ways and remained remarkably consistent in others. As stated earlier, the Internet Research Agency’s operation was not focused entirely on the political, but the election of 2016 did figure significantly in the content. There were approximately 6.5 million posts not related to the election, and approximately 686,000 posts that focused on it. In engagement terms, there were 246 million non-election-related engagements, and 82 million election-related. Put another way, 11% of the total content was related to the election and 33% of the engagement was related to the election. This indicates that overall the IRA did receive higher engagement on election related content. However, this effect was dominated by the volume of Twitter posts; Facebook and Instagram had similar engagement rates between election and non-election-related posts. Overall, Instagram’s engagement rates were higher after the election because of the increase in activity in 2017.
...
First, it is our assessment that aside from a handful of early-2015 posts expressing support for a Rand Paul candidacy, the Right-targeted IRA pages aligned to display a clear and consistent preference for then-candidate Donald Trump from July 2015 onward. They actively disparaged Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, and Jeb Bush on Facebook and Instagram
...
Saying that the IRA expressed strong and consistent support for then-candidate Trump does not imply that there were no negative posts about President Trump; there were negative posts among the Left-targeting and occasionally Black-targeting Facebook groups. It also makes no claim about whether the campaign was in communication with the IRA in any way, as any determination about that topic is outside of the scope of this data set. However, the IRA consistently supported his candidacy throughout the primary in Right-leaning groups, keeping their memes and content positive with the exception of a few posts expressing strong disapproval and disappointment that then-candidate Trump was in favor of a hard line on Edward Snowden. Kremlin-aligned narratives appeared in a handful of posts, including this one from Dec. 18, 2015 that expressed the conviction that Trump was going to have a very sensible Russia policy.
...
Second, it is our assessment that the IRA was similarly strong and consistent in their efforts to undermine the candidacy of then-candidate Hillary Clinton throughout all of their pages – Black, Left, and Right-targeting. The one purportedly positive Clinton post was an event (and ad) promoting a Muslim community march to support Sec. Clinton (above right). It is likely that the IRA saw a high-profile march by Muslims as a way to create social tension, and as a negative for Sec. Clinton’s candidacy. The remainder of the United Muslims of America page content actively opposed Sec. Clinton, primarily promoting further-left candidates but at one point going so far as to broach the idea that Muslims might vote for then-candidate Trump. In the days leading up to the election, the IRA began to deploy voter suppression tactics on the Black-community targeted accounts, while simultaneously fearmongering on Right-targeted accounts about voter fraud and delivering ominous warnings that the election would be stolen and violence might be necessary. The suppression narratives were targeted almost exclusively at the Black community on Instagram and Facebook; there appeared to be a concerted effort to keep the conversation on other topics, such as alienation and violence, and away from politics.

And of particular note is the fact that even they were not given all of the data from the various platforms:

There remains much to be done. With regard to the Internet Research Agency specifically, further investigation of subscription and engagement pathways is needed; and only the platforms currently have that data. Understanding the reactions of targeted Americans, and attempting to gauge the impact that the repeated exposure to this propaganda had, is also a key area for ongoing investigation; only the platforms have the comment data. We hope that platforms will provide more data that can speak to the impact and uptake among targeted communities.

It's a long report, but not too long and it goes into significant detail about the complexity of the immersive tactic employed (and notes that it is still in operation, which means it has grown exponentially in the last two years and will only keep growing).

The importance of Russian meddling in US politics would have been a slam-dunk case

And if not a "slam-dunk case," but just a run-of-the-mill or even barely-got-by case?

if a Clinton landslide were transformed into a Trump win

That's arguably exactly what happened when you factor that what hurt her primarily were the decrease in black voter turnout and the unusually high percentage of late-voter undecideds. The whole thrust of the influencing campaign was to attack Clinton and praise Trump, in a nut, but it was also more immersive than that and it was coordinated perfectly with the leaks of the DNC/Podesta emails and her "missing" emails and pushing the lie that the primaries were rigged and so on, which would in turn all easily account for so many unprecedented late-voting undecideds.

Regardless, she still won by almost three million counted votes, but there were also another 37 percent of registered voters who expressed that their preference would have been Clinton had they actually voted, with another 30% saying the same about Trump, which nets out to be an additional 7% pro-Clinton, or approximately 7 million more votes for Clinton over Trump, which would have put her total vote differential at around 10 million. A clear landslide.

Again, this tells us the preference of the voters who for various non-partisan reasons--such as not bothering to get out and vote or couldn't find their voting place or were mislead into thinking their vote wouldn't count for some reason...--wanted Hillary Clinton, specifically, to win.

This is NOT reflective of the "anyone but Trump" vote; but expressly the preference for Hillary. For some reason that needs to be made painfully clear for some people not to confuse it with any other anti-Hillary sentiment typically brought up.

So, the fact that the Congressional elections were so victorious for Republicans

You and I have a very different definition of what would constitute "so victorious." Again, they only managed to flip two "blue" states and the overall voting margin in their favor was only 1.2%, almost exactly the same small percentage that put Trump in the WH in spite of Hillary's clearly more massive voter preference numbers.
 
Last edited:
Wait, so if 37% of non-voters preferred Clinton, and were (according to the poll) predominantly young, less educated, and nonwhite, then wouldn't it be rational to conclude that Clinton's electoral college loss was (at least in part) a result of her campaign's inability to inspire that demographic to vote?

In other words, if you keep all variables constant and simply manipulate the Russian meddling variable, you can create the impression that Russian meddling is what gave Trump the win. But you can do the same thing by keeping all variables (including Russian meddling) constant and varying the candidate or the campaign, such that in a counterfactual scenario, the Democrat would have won even WITH the Russians helping Trump. If you're justified in counting the 7% advantage in preference as an indicator that Clinton would have won if not for Russia, I'm justified in pointing out that a different campaign strategy (or a different candidate entirely) would have turned those preferences into actual votes, and won with or without Russian interference. The existence of one factor that accounts for the difference between the winner and loser of an election does not negate all other factors that could perform the same role.
 
I have a slight derail question. I understand why the Russians wanted Trump to win. Brexit to win. Venezuelan Madura to retain his power. And etc. They want chaos. They are anti democratic process. I get it. But why are the Russian bots against vaccination? How does that make any sense? Do the Russian hackers believe that they are immune to world outbreaks?

To create more distrust of the government.

Also, I am convinced: for shits and giggles. I mean we have entire networks devoted to vapid people with a lot of money and no taste or sense. I can see why there would be the temptation to see just how stupid Americans (and Europeans) are.
 
Latest swerve:

article (my emphasis) said:
Former Trump national security adviser Michael Flynn told special counsel Robert Mueller that individuals linked to the Trump administration or Congress had reached out to him multiple times, possibly in an attempt to interfere with Mueller’s investigation.

In a court filing on Thursday, the special counsel’s office detailed Flynn’s efforts to aid the inquiry into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. The special counsel noted, not for the first time, that Flynn was deeply helpful during the probe, sitting for 19 interviews and providing “substantial assistance.” But the special counsel also said that Flynn informed Mueller’s team of several efforts by people who may have been trying to influence Flynn’s cooperation, both before and after he pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI in late 2017.

“The defendant informed the government of multiple instances, both before and after his guilty plea, where either he or his attorneys received communications from persons connected to the Administration or Congress that could have affected both his willingness to cooperate and the completeness of that cooperation,” the filing reads.

...

Thursday’s memo also notes that Flynn provided a voicemail to investigators of one of those possible attempts to sway him, which was referenced in the full redacted version of Mueller’s report. A personal attorney for Trump left the message on the phone of Flynn’s lawyer.
 
I have a slight derail question. I understand why the Russians wanted Trump to win. Brexit to win. Venezuelan Madura to retain his power. And etc. They want chaos. They are anti democratic process. I get it. But why are the Russian bots against vaccination? How does that make any sense? Do the Russian hackers believe that they are immune to world outbreaks?

To create more distrust of the government.

Also, I am convinced: for shits and giggles. I mean we have entire networks devoted to vapid people with a lot of money and no taste or sense. I can see why there would be the temptation to see just how stupid Americans (and Europeans) are.

So Putin is basically the Joker as portrayed by Heath Ledger? This is how geopolitical decisions by world powers are made?
 
I have a slight derail question. I understand why the Russians wanted Trump to win. Brexit to win. Venezuelan Madura to retain his power. And etc. They want chaos. They are anti democratic process. I get it. But why are the Russian bots against vaccination? How does that make any sense? Do the Russian hackers believe that they are immune to world outbreaks?

To create more distrust of the government.

Also, I am convinced: for shits and giggles. I mean we have entire networks devoted to vapid people with a lot of money and no taste or sense. I can see why there would be the temptation to see just how stupid Americans (and Europeans) are.

So Putin is basically the Joker as portrayed by Heath Ledger? This is how geopolitical decisions by world powers are made?
Well, Russia a shit hole country, so in order to improve it, you need the rest of the world to go down a few pegs. I mean look at it, it went from dictatorship to democracy almost immediately back into a dictatorship.
 
So Putin is basically the Joker as portrayed by Heath Ledger? This is how geopolitical decisions by world powers are made?
Well, Russia a shit hole country, so in order to improve it, you need the rest of the world to go down a few pegs. I mean look at it, it went from dictatorship to democracy almost immediately back into a dictatorship.
But... Putin is the dictator. So why would he be spearheading any program of Russian "improvement" when he is the one benefiting from it being a shithole for the majority?
 
Wait, so if 37% of non-voters preferred Clinton, and were (according to the poll) predominantly young, less educated, and nonwhite then wouldn't it be rational to conclude that Clinton's electoral college loss was (at least in part) a result of her campaign's inability to inspire that demographic to vote?

The poll indicates registered voters who were inspired to vote for Hillary Clinton, but for various non-partisan reasons did not end up physically voting. They thought she would win no matter what, so didn't bother; they were in a blue state and their state always votes blue, so didn't bother; they couldn't find their voting precinct; the lines were too long; they couldn't take off work/get out of the hospital/not take that test/were on vacation/didn't mail in their vote in time; etc., etc., etc.

And now that we know some of the extent (still not all) of the Russian influencing warfare, note this:

The scale of their operation was unprecedented — they reached 126 million people on Facebook, at least 20 million users on Instagram, 1.4 million users on Twitter, and uploaded over 1,000 videos to YouTube.
...
There were ~77 million engagements on Facebook, ~187 million engagements on Instagram, and ~73 million engagements on original content on Twitter.
...
In the days leading up to the election, the IRA began to deploy voter suppression tactics on the Black-community targeted accounts, while simultaneously fearmongering on Right targeted accounts about voter fraud and delivering ominous warnings that the election would be stolen and violence might be necessary. The suppression narratives were targeted almost exclusively at the Black community on Instagram and Facebook; there appeared to be a concerted effort to keep the conversation on other topics, such as alienation and violence, and away from politics.
...
The reason that we isolate this detailed study of the IRAs cross-platform efforts during election week is to illustrate the distinctive ways in which they attempted to manipulate the Black, Left-leaning, and Right-leaning groups over the same timeframe. The strategy for Right-leaning groups appears to have been to generate extreme anger and suspicion, in hopes that it would motivate people to vote; posts darkly hinted at conspiracy theories, voter fraud, illegal participation in the election, and stated the need for rebellion should Hillary Clinton “steal” the election. The Black-targeted content, meanwhile, largely ignored the election until the last minute, instead continuing to produce posts on themes about societal alienation and police brutality. As the election became imminent, those themes were then tied into several varieties of voter suppression narratives: don’t vote, stay home, this country is not for Black people, these candidates don’t care about Black people. Left-targeted content was somewhat political, with an anti-establishment slant. It focused primarily on identity and pride for communities such as Native Americans, LGBT+, and Muslims, and then more broadly called for voting for candidates other than Hillary Clinton.

In summary, the goal appears to have been to generate extreme anger and engagement for those most likely to support then-candidate Donald Trump, and to create disillusionment and disengagement on the Left-leaning and Black communities.

Thus, including the preference measurement of registered non-voters (that evidently skewed younger, less educated and non-white) shows us a clearer indication of what people wanted as opposed to what then actually happened and perhaps why. We know, for example, that black turnout was (ironically) 7% lower than in 2014 in spite of the percentages voting for Hillary still being considerably high (90%).

It turns out that it was primarily "activist" black males that represented the largest percentages of black voters that didn't turnout to vote and what did the Senate Intel report find?

The most prolific IRA efforts on Facebook and Instagram specifically targeted Black American communities and appear to have been focused on developing Black audiences and recruiting Black Americans as assets.
  • The IRA created an expansive cross-platform media mirage targeting the Black community, which shared and cross-promoted authentic Black media to create an immersive influence ecosystem.
  • The IRA exploited the trust of their Page audiences to develop human assets, at least some of whom were not aware of the role they played. This tactic was substantially more pronounced on Black-targeted accounts.
  • The degree of integration into authentic Black community media was not replicated in the otherwise Right-leaning or otherwise Left-leaning content.
...
The extent of the human asset recruitment strategy is revealed in the organic data set. It is expansive, and was clearly a priority. Posts encouraging Americans to perform various types of tasks for IRA handlers appeared in Black, Left, and Right-targeted groups, though they were most numerous in theBlack community. They included:
  • Requests for contact with preachers from Black churches (Black_Baptist_Church)
  • Offers of free counseling to people with sexual addiction (Army of Jesus)
  • Soliciting volunteers to hand out fliers
  • Soliciting volunteers to teach self-defense classes
  • Offering free self-defense classes (Black Fist/Fit Black)
  • Requests for followers to attend political rallies
  • Requests for photographers to document protests
  • Requests for speakers at protests
  • Requests to protest the Westborough Baptist Church (LGBT United)
  • Job offers for designers to help design fliers, sites, Facebook sticker packs
  • Requests for female followers to send photos for a calendar
  • Requests for followers to send photos to be shared to the Page (Back the Badge)
  • Soliciting videos for a YouTube contest called “Pee on Hillary”
  • Encouraging people to apply to be part of a Black reality TV show
  • Posting a wide variety of job ads (write for BlackMattersUS and others)
  • Requests for lawyers to volunteer to assist with immigration cases

In short, it was quite extensive and its goal was to embed itself deeply within the black community:

The Internet Research Agency operated like a digital marketing agency: develop a brand (both visual and voice), build presences on all channels across the entire social ecosystem, and grow an audience with paid ads as well as partnerships, influencers, and link-sharing. They created media mirages: interlinked information ecosystems designed to immerse and surround targeted audiences
...
To illustrate the commitment to a social ecosystem-wide presence, consider one of their midsize efforts, Black Matters.

Black Matters consisted of a website and an extensive network of linked social profiles. The IRA launched the property on June 8, 2015 with a post on a Facebook Page they initially called “BM” (facebook.com/blackmatters).
...
Black Matters ran ads; some directed people to follow them on social media, others linked out to the site. On February 12, 2016 the admin announced they’d reached 100,000 subscribers to the site. We examined CrowdTangle data for Black Matters (not included in the provided data set). That data reveals that influencers with large followings, such as Color of Change, Unapologetically Black, and YourAnonNews, shared Black Matters articles to their own Facebook Pages. The articles were also shared into popular subreddits.
...
Black Matters content focused on building community – and sowing division – in real life as well as online. Many posts solicited protestors, writers, activists, lawyers, and photographers to attend the property’s numerous events. They posted job ads for real American writers to create content for blackmattersus.com – a clear example supporting the hypothesis that the IRA engaged in narrative laundering.

The goal of working with real Americans is to eliminate the detection and exposure risk of inauthentic personas.

Black Matters created numerous posts to push for 1:1 engagements with people who followed its accounts, looking for everything from designers to immigration lawyers. They asked for user-submitted photos of Black women, purportedly for a calendar. They posted about the creation of a reality show on November 17, 2016, looking for contestants: “All that is required of you is to send us a video, depicting the problems facing our people.”

The case study of Black Matters illustrates the extent to which the Internet Research Agency built out one inauthentic media property, creating accounts across the social ecosystem to reinforce its brand and broadly distribute its content. To further contextualize this, Black Matters was one property among 30 Facebook Pages that targeted the Black community. Using only the data from the Facebook Page posts and memes, we generated a map of the cross-linked properties – other accounts that the Pages shared from, or linked to – to highlight the complex web of IRA-run accounts designed to surround Black audiences.

An individual who followed or liked one of the Black-community-targeted IRA Pages would have been exposed to content from dozens more, as well as carefully-curated authentic Black media content that was ideologically or thematically aligned with the Internet Research Agency messaging.

So, again, we're not talking about sending out a tweet "don't vote for Hillary"; we're talking about infiltrating "strong tie" communities online and deeply embedding within them to act as micro and macro influencers. Here's the web of just the Facebook and Instagram activity illustrating the complexity of it all:

Screen Shot 2019-05-17 at 3.26.26 PM.png

There is, of course, much much more, including some twelve different tactics used and intertwined, so I strongly encourage you (and all) to actually read the study.

In other words, if you keep all variables constant and simply manipulate the Russian meddling variable, you can create the impression that Russian meddling is what gave Trump the win.

It doesn't matter if it did, in the end, actually result in him being President. You don't measure a crime by its success (or failure). Even if it only barely increased his chances, it's still a crime.

The facts of the matter are, however, that it could very easily account for his narrow victory, particularly in light of the massive differential in voter preference.

If you're justified in counting the 7% advantage in preference as an indicator that Clinton would have won if not for Russia, I'm justified in pointing out that a different campaign strategy (or a different candidate entirely) would have turned those preferences into actual votes

No, you're not, because the disproportionate measure of preference proves that it wasn't a factor in spite of all that was done to undermine her; that something else was stopping a larger percentage of predominantly "non-white" Democrats from not actually casting their ballots in spite of the fact that they clearly wanted Hillary Clinton qua Hillary Clinton.

But more importantly, it was evidently the combination of tactics and time (and collusion with Trump, not to mention weaponizing the Sanders zombie civil war) that fueled the anti-Hillary sentiment as well, so it's not a logical argument to make that changing either strategy or candidate would necessarily have made the difference. She won in spite of everything that was undertaken against her. The preference polling proves that she was the preferred candidate by the overwhelming majority of registered voters, but more specifically in the community that was specifically targeted for voter suppression tactics. Not all of those tactics were "anti-Hillary."
 
Last edited:
So Putin is basically the Joker as portrayed by Heath Ledger? This is how geopolitical decisions by world powers are made?
Well, Russia a shit hole country, so in order to improve it, you need the rest of the world to go down a few pegs. I mean look at it, it went from dictatorship to democracy almost immediately back into a dictatorship.

I am glad that people finally agreed that Putin had no plan to install Trump as POTUS. But you are still inventing crazy conspiracy theories about why would russians do what they do. I have explained it many times. Putin is a dictator, there is no question about it, but he is a benevolent dictator, like a Tsar. What he does is merely a reaction to what West or rather US neocons do to to Russia.
 
Last edited:
So Putin is basically the Joker as portrayed by Heath Ledger? This is how geopolitical decisions by world powers are made?
Well, Russia a shit hole country, so in order to improve it, you need the rest of the world to go down a few pegs. I mean look at it, it went from dictatorship to democracy almost immediately back into a dictatorship.

I am glad that people finally agreed that Putin had no plan to install Trump as POTUS. But you are still inventing crazy conspiracy theories about why would russians do that what they do. I have explained it many times. Putin is a dictator, there is no question about it, but he is a benevolent dictator, like a Tsar. What he does is merely a reaction to what West or rather US neocons do to to Russia.

I've heard this a few times that the IRA's goal was just to create division and knock the west down a few pegs, and that they targeted the left as well as the right.

But that still leaves a few questions...most notably the communications between the Trump campaign as Russians. For example, Manafort selling polling data to key swing states is a massive, massive red flag.

From what it looks like when you look at all the evidence, and not cherry pick, at the very best it looks like they did not want Hillary to win.
 
So Putin is basically the Joker as portrayed by Heath Ledger? This is how geopolitical decisions by world powers are made?
Well, Russia a shit hole country, so in order to improve it, you need the rest of the world to go down a few pegs. I mean look at it, it went from dictatorship to democracy almost immediately back into a dictatorship.

I am glad that people finally agreed that Putin had no plan to install Trump as POTUS. But you are still inventing crazy conspiracy theories about why would russians do what they do. I have explained it many times. Putin is a dictator, there is no question about it, but he is a benevolent dictator, like a Tsar. What he does is merely a reaction to what West or rather US neocons do to to Russia.

Tsars weren't benevolent
 
I am glad that people finally agreed that Putin had no plan to install Trump as POTUS. But you are still inventing crazy conspiracy theories about why would russians do that what they do. I have explained it many times. Putin is a dictator, there is no question about it, but he is a benevolent dictator, like a Tsar. What he does is merely a reaction to what West or rather US neocons do to to Russia.

I've heard this a few times that the IRA's goal was just to create division and knock the west down a few pegs, and that they targeted the left as well as the right.

They targeted the left to suppress votes and the right to incite votes, particularly among the secondary social network of alt-right rural whites. Iow, friends of friends, or the less extreme whites, who would not have been such rabid idealistic followers and therefore needed additional prodding to vote for Trump. If you're on a fence and one side says, "Don't believe me, see this for yourself" or "I'm not the only one saying this, look here" or the like, then you have a much better chance of convincing that person to jump off the fence onto your side.

And they supported Trump right from the start of the primaries, while attacking his Republican opponents right from the start (while at the same time attacking Hillary and using the Sanders campaign to do so as well). If they wanted to just fuck shit up, then why attack any Republicans at all? Why not work all sides of the fence and pit every candidate against each other equally to watch them tear each other apart, much like they did with Hillary and Bernie?

It is undeniable that their intentions were not just to sow general discord among the left, center and right. They wanted Trump, specifically, to win and took extensive steps before he ever announced to make that happen. Again, what people are not including in their understanding is the fact that strategies of this nature and magnitude--and complexity--do not just happen overnight. It takes months and months of planning on both the creative and logistical sides to set all of that up and maintain it and coordinate it and expand it, etc., etc., etc.

If the goal was in fact just to sow general discord, then there would be no need for the highly complex intertwining of different accounts and websites and millions in paid ads designed to illicit unknowing "assets," or, for that matter, any organic tactics at all (i.e., extensive recruiting of "assets" making it seem as if there were genuine accounts by normal US citizens connected to known influencer accounts and the like); no need for anything immersive at all, really. Just a whole bunch of memes would do the trick.

Everything about the IRA operation was highly organized and with one primary goal; to put Trump, specifically, into the WH.

But that still leaves a few questions...most notably the communications between the Trump campaign as Russians. For example, Manafort selling polling data to key swing states is a massive, massive red flag.

Among several dozen others.
 
I am glad that people finally agreed that Putin had no plan to install Trump as POTUS.


"People"? Doesn't include Putin himself, who freely admits that he had a plan to install Trump as POTUS...
 
Back
Top Bottom