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Russian Invasion of Ukraine - tactics and logistics

If I understood correctly, part of the reason for high casualties for the failed river crossing was that the group of tanks actually got over and into the village on the other side, before the pontoons were blown up. The Russian troops were then trapped on the wrong side of the river with no possibility to retreat.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
SLD said:
The Russians can’t even cross a fucking River. 3 times they’ve failed. Keep trying fuckers.

www.bbc.com

Bloody river battle was third in three days - Ukraine official

Ukraine claims to have attacked Russian troops as they attempted to cross the Siversky Donets river.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

utterly piss poor Military skills. If this is the plan they need to fire their planners right now.
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Opposed river crossings are hard. Ukraine has it's act together with artillery, that makes obstacles such as rivers very hard.
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Now you're speaking my language! So, it's possible to stand up a bridge in... Maybe 15-20 minutes with a well-trained platoon and good bridging equipment. None of that is very easy when getting shelled.

And for impermanent bridges and wider rivers, it may just not be possible: if they can shell the bridge ends, at the abutments, impermanent bridges will just be blown to pieces.

They could also put a RECORDED! Minefield at the river bank and then dig it up when the conflict is over. Good luck getting anything bigger than personnel across after that!

I'm pretty sure Russia skimps on engineer operations, equipment, and training because it is not aggressive or flashy.

The result is... Well, river crossings that end like this. And there is no way to get conscripts to perform well as army engineers; there's just no investment.

There are a number of ways the Russian army can get across that river, but mum's the word. It's funny watching them fail and I don't want to change that trend!
 
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Greetings! I've heard that following the beginning of combat operations, the Ukrainian government initiated the distribution of weapons among the population to protect against Russia. So, where are these weapons? Right, it's on the internet on various weapons sales sites. Is this a country that needs our help? If many people don't accept their government's assistance and sell these means of protection. Why should we provide some aid to them?
 
Black Water said:
Greetings! I've heard that following the beginning of combat operations, the Ukrainian government initiated the distribution of weapons among the population to protect against Russia. So, where are these weapons? Right, it's on the internet on various weapons sales sites. Is this a country that needs our help? If many people don't accept their government's assistance and sell these means of protection. Why should we provide some aid to them?
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Well, do you have a source for that? That's a pretty bold assertion. But the larger issue here is that Ukrainians are running out of ammo and are in need of longer range weapons. The Ukranian weapons have been mostly shorter term defensive weapons designed to take out Russian motor vehicles and tanks and then scoot. But the Russians now are just using long term artillery; then after an area is leveled, they send in the tanks. Ukraine is also in great need for longer term anti-ship missiles. They want to open up their port Odessa in order to start exporting grain (very much needed in the world). But the Russians are blockading the port and bombing the shit out of Ukraine.
 
Harry Bosch said:
Black Water said:
Greetings! I've heard that following the beginning of combat operations, the Ukrainian government initiated the distribution of weapons among the population to protect against Russia. So, where are these weapons? Right, it's on the internet on various weapons sales sites. Is this a country that needs our help? If many people don't accept their government's assistance and sell these means of protection. Why should we provide some aid to them?
Click to expand...
Well, do you have a source for that? That's a pretty bold assertion. But the larger issue here is that Ukrainians are running out of ammo and are in need of longer range weapons. The Ukranian weapons have been mostly shorter term defensive weapons designed to take out Russian motor vehicles and tanks and then scoot. But the Russians now are just using long term artillery; then after an area is leveled, they send in the tanks. Ukraine is also in great need for longer term anti-ship missiles. They want to open up their port Odessa in order to start exporting grain (very much needed in the world). But the Russians are blockading the port and bombing the shit out of Ukraine.
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Harry Bosch said:
Black Water said:
Greetings! I've heard that following the beginning of combat operations, the Ukrainian government initiated the distribution of weapons among the population to protect against Russia. So, where are these weapons? Right, it's on the internet on various weapons sales sites. Is this a country that needs our help? If many people don't accept their government's assistance and sell these means of protection. Why should we provide some aid to them?
Click to expand...
Well, do you have a source for that? That's a pretty bold assertion. But the larger issue here is that Ukrainians are running out of ammo and are in need of longer range weapons. The Ukranian weapons have been mostly shorter term defensive weapons designed to take out Russian motor vehicles and tanks and then scoot. But the Russians now are just using long term artillery; then after an area is leveled, they send in the tanks. Ukraine is also in great need for longer term anti-ship missiles. They want to open up their port Odessa in order to start exporting grain (very much needed in the world). But the Russians are blockading the port and bombing the shit out of Ukraine.
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For sure. https://darknet.rutor.nl/threads/prodam-oruzhie-patrony-ukraina.55230/
Just follow the link, and you will see that a person tries to illegally sell ak-74, that undoubtedly was distributed by the Ukrainian authorities for the protection of the country and fighting Russia, and not for the personal benefit.
 
Black Water said:
Greetings! I've heard that following the beginning of combat operations, the Ukrainian government initiated the distribution of weapons among the population to protect against Russia. So, where are these weapons? Right, it's on the internet on various weapons sales sites. Is this a country that needs our help? If many people don't accept their government's assistance and sell these means of protection. Why should we provide some aid to them?
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Came out swinging without a bat.

I’ll betcha Ukrainians are a lot like other folks of other nations. Many will fight. Many will run. Some will try and make money off the situation. Funny how it keeps working out this way time and again. Fucking human nature.

You ain’t seen nothing yet. Wait’ll we start funding the rebuilding of their country.
 
Black Water said:
https://darknet.rutor.nl/threads/prodam-oruzhie-patrony-ukraina.55230/
Just follow the link, and you will see that a person tries to illegally sell ak-74, that undoubtedly was distributed by the Ukrainian authorities for the protection of the country and fighting Russia, and not for the personal benefit.
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One rifle? One?
Surely you can uncover some container loads of them, right?
In an international conflict, the theft and sale of one rifle is hardly an indicator of widespread corruption. I bet I could do better than that in less than ten minutes if I were so inclined. Even if it was one THOUSAND instead of just one, that would be a less than a drop in the armaments bucket.
 
Black Water said:
Harry Bosch said:
Black Water said:
Greetings! I've heard that following the beginning of combat operations, the Ukrainian government initiated the distribution of weapons among the population to protect against Russia. So, where are these weapons? Right, it's on the internet on various weapons sales sites. Is this a country that needs our help? If many people don't accept their government's assistance and sell these means of protection. Why should we provide some aid to them?
Click to expand...
Well, do you have a source for that? That's a pretty bold assertion. But the larger issue here is that Ukrainians are running out of ammo and are in need of longer range weapons. The Ukranian weapons have been mostly shorter term defensive weapons designed to take out Russian motor vehicles and tanks and then scoot. But the Russians now are just using long term artillery; then after an area is leveled, they send in the tanks. Ukraine is also in great need for longer term anti-ship missiles. They want to open up their port Odessa in order to start exporting grain (very much needed in the world). But the Russians are blockading the port and bombing the shit out of Ukraine.
Click to expand...

Harry Bosch said:
Black Water said:
Greetings! I've heard that following the beginning of combat operations, the Ukrainian government initiated the distribution of weapons among the population to protect against Russia. So, where are these weapons? Right, it's on the internet on various weapons sales sites. Is this a country that needs our help? If many people don't accept their government's assistance and sell these means of protection. Why should we provide some aid to them?
Click to expand...
Well, do you have a source for that? That's a pretty bold assertion. But the larger issue here is that Ukrainians are running out of ammo and are in need of longer range weapons. The Ukranian weapons have been mostly shorter term defensive weapons designed to take out Russian motor vehicles and tanks and then scoot. But the Russians now are just using long term artillery; then after an area is leveled, they send in the tanks. Ukraine is also in great need for longer term anti-ship missiles. They want to open up their port Odessa in order to start exporting grain (very much needed in the world). But the Russians are blockading the port and bombing the shit out of Ukraine.
Click to expand...
For sure. https://darknet.rutor.nl/threads/prodam-oruzhie-patrony-ukraina.55230/
Just follow the link, and you will see that a person tries to illegally sell ak-74, that undoubtedly was distributed by the Ukrainian authorities for the protection of the country and fighting Russia, and not for the personal benefit.
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Sorry, but there's no way I'm going to click on a link for "darknet.rutor" or whatever that is. I don't click on any link that I don't trust. Do you have a secondary source that is more mainstream? But this raises a few questions to me. First off, one person allegedly selling an AK-74 means demonstrates a pattern? I'd recommend a more heightened level of suspicion.
 
I'm curious if anyone has a theory why there is such an appalling disregard for Russian KIA by Russia soldiers? I've seen countless videos of killed Russian soldiers just lying in the road. Just left there by Russians. It's quite shocking. You don't see Ukrainians leaving their dead in the street. American soldiers don't leave their dead behind. I'll bet most militaries in the world try to tend to their dead.
 
Black Water said:
Greetings! I've heard that following the beginning of combat operations, the Ukrainian government initiated the distribution of weapons among the population to protect against Russia. So, where are these weapons? Right, it's on the internet on various weapons sales sites. Is this a country that needs our help? If many people don't accept their government's assistance and sell these means of protection. Why should we provide some aid to them?
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That's a fair point.

Unfortunately for the Russians, the story about Ukrainians selling weapons was a ruse fed to Putin's intelligence agencies, along with the idea Ukrainians would welcome an invasion.

Putin accepted the story about selling guns because under his regime, Red Army soldiers will steal any government property that will fetch a few rubles. When this is combined with a decade of falsifying maintenance records and an army used only to suppress Russian citizens, it's little wonder they are doing so poorly.

With Russian casualties approaching 30,000, it seems Ukrainians kept most of their guns close at hand.
 
Harry Bosch said:
I'm curious if anyone has a theory why there is such an appalling disregard for Russian KIA by Russia soldiers? I've seen countless videos of killed Russian soldiers just lying in the road. Just left there by Russians. It's quite shocking. You don't see Ukrainians leaving their dead in the street. American soldiers don't leave their dead behind. I'll bet most militaries in the world try to tend to their dead.
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Ukrainians are picking up Russia's dead and storing them in refrigerated train cars wanting to send them back to their families. But I guess there is no response from Russia.
I think the lady with the sunflower seeds idea knew this was going to happen.
 
Black Water said:
Greetings! I've heard that following the beginning of combat operations, the Ukrainian government initiated the distribution of weapons among the population to protect against Russia. So, where are these weapons? Right, it's on the internet on various weapons sales sites. Is this a country that needs our help? If many people don't accept their government's assistance and sell these means of protection. Why should we provide some aid to them?
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You're right! I just bought an S-300 missile defense system and two M777 howitzers on Ebay for a bargain price. Just waiting for delivery.

:sneaky:
 
Copernicus said:
I don't think that the decision to cross that river was driven by military strategy, but by political direction. They are under extreme pressure to make advances, and the generals involved in the planning likely felt that they had little choice other than to follow the orders of their high command, who are dealing with an unstable dictator. Hitler often overrode his generals, making the fateful decision to attack Stalingrad before reaching their major objective of the Caucasian oilfields during Operation Edelweiss. Putin had very definite ideas about what his military could achieve, if it invaded Ukraine, and he has been extremely frustrated by their lack of progress in living up to expectations. Crossing that river was key to making advances even though pontoon crossings in active war zones are extremely risky, especially with good satellite intelligence to spot and report ground activity. They were sitting ducks. Putin is playing with his toy soldiers, and the generals are likely being handed their military objectives under his direction.
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This. Bunching up where the enemy can drop on you (whether from aircraft or artillery) is basically a form of suicide. Yet Moscow keeps ordering troops to do things that force them to bunch up.
 
Jarhyn said:
They could also put a RECORDED! Minefield at the river bank and then dig it up when the conflict is over. Good luck getting anything bigger than personnel across after that!
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No--minefields are not able to stop enemy forces, nor are they intended to. Minefields are lethal speed bumps, intended to reduce enemy forces to a crawl and expose him to fire while doing so. You put down a minefield, you observe the minefield and fire upon those attempting to sweep it. And note that minefields can be swept with large bombs--although Moscow seems to have used up the precision guided stuff needed for the purpose. (Look at Desert Storm, that's how we breached the minefield at the border--blast a corridor through it with a few big booms. Normally that would itself be problematic as confining your troops to the safe corridor is normally quite dangerous, but Iraq lacked the ability to exploit the situation.)
 
Black Water said:
Greetings! I've heard that following the beginning of combat operations, the Ukrainian government initiated the distribution of weapons among the population to protect against Russia. So, where are these weapons? Right, it's on the internet on various weapons sales sites. Is this a country that needs our help? If many people don't accept their government's assistance and sell these means of protection. Why should we provide some aid to them?
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Evidence?!

And note that most of what we have been sending has been the heavy stuff that has little other market. I'm sure some of the small arms ended up for sale but that's a minor issue.
 
Jayjay said:
Black Water said:
Greetings! I've heard that following the beginning of combat operations, the Ukrainian government initiated the distribution of weapons among the population to protect against Russia. So, where are these weapons? Right, it's on the internet on various weapons sales sites. Is this a country that needs our help? If many people don't accept their government's assistance and sell these means of protection. Why should we provide some aid to them?
Click to expand...
You're right! I just bought an S-300 missile defense system and two M777 howitzers on Ebay for a bargain price. Just waiting for delivery.

:sneaky:
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You got TWO M777s?
Dude! Wanna trade one for a Switchblade drone?
Sweet defense system BTW. Been wanting one of those for my garage.
 
Black Water said:
For sure. https://darknet.rutor.nl/threads/prodam-oruzhie-patrony-ukraina.55230/
Just follow the link, and you will see that a person tries to illegally sell ak-74, that undoubtedly was distributed by the Ukrainian authorities for the protection of the country and fighting Russia, and not for the personal benefit.
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Really, now? That seems to be the only post by that guy and he failed to provide the verification demanded. Can you say "scammer"?

And strangely, that post is in Russian. The Ukrainians I know have all refused to use Russian since the war broke out.
 
Black Water said:
Greetings! I've heard that following the beginning of combat operations, the Ukrainian government initiated the distribution of weapons among the population to protect against Russia. So, where are these weapons? Right, it's on the internet on various weapons sales sites. Is this a country that needs our help? If many people don't accept their government's assistance and sell these means of protection. Why should we provide some aid to them?
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Heard where?

It was widely reported that as Russia massed for an invasion Ukrainian civilians began buying guns and getting training.

The Ukrainians went through a revolution to get rid of the Russian puppet leadership, went through the seizure of Crimea, and the presence of Russian military in the border region.

No conspiracy theory was needed to motivate the Ukrainians.

People being what we are, there has undoubtedly been some collaboration and profiteering by Ukrainians.

Welcome Black Water whoever and whatever you really are. Barbos is just no fun anymore.

By the way. I heard Putin is actually gay and has wld sex parties.
 
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