Russian Invasion of Ukraine - tactics and logistics

[Jayjay]

Let's not forget that Ukraine

Ukraine is running out of everything war related - ammunition, fuel, soldiers.

All the more reason to keep supplying them with the first two. Casualties are probably 1-to-1, and while Ukraine is smaller, its fighters are more motivated because they're defending their homeland, while Russian soldiers are in it just for the loot.

 

[barbos]

Let's not forget that Ukraine

Ukraine is running out of everything war related - ammunition, fuel, soldiers.

All the more reason to keep supplying them with the first two. Casualties are probably 1-to-1, and while Ukraine is smaller, its fighters are more motivated because they're defending their homeland, while Russian soldiers are in it just for the loot.

No, wrong again. You can supply all you want, but only tiny amount gets to the front line and gets used for anything, usually for murdering civilian population, because it's easier.
And, no, it's not 1-to-1 at all. It's been about artillery for a long time now and Russia has huge advantage in that. Ukrainians have no logistics for artillery anymore.
It's 1-to-1 when russian taking the cities, but russians are not doing it anymore. They simply wait until these idiots surrender. Ukrainians can't do shit other that sit in cities and hope russian infantry enters it. In the open field ukrainians gets destroyed 100-to-0. They tried few counter-offensives with simply disastrous results like 1-3 (out of ~100 people) survivors or even no survivors as in the case of Snake Island.
Russian army finally found the formula and it is artillery+UAVs.
Of course slow movement means urainian terrorist army have opportunity to retaliate against pro-russian population with what is left of their artillery.

 

[Patooka]

All the more reason to keep supplying them with the first two. Casualties are probably 1-to-1, and while Ukraine is smaller, its fighters are more motivated because they're defending their homeland, while Russian soldiers are in it just for the loot.

Coupled with the fact that Northrop, Raytheon Boeing etc can make some serious bank on this with Daddy Congress footing the bill. I'm very much against US MIC, but this is one of those stopped clock moments considering how much of the world Russia wants to starve just so it can have its anschluss moment. And that's not factoring the amount of military aid coming from Europe.

 

[barbos]

its fighters are more motivated because they're defending their homeland,

Nope, they are not, and they are pretty open about it in these "We quit!" youtube videos. They don't consider Eastern Ukraine their homeland, they consider it Russia and try to bomb civilian population there, have been doing it for 8 years.

 

[barbos]

while Russian soldiers are in it just for the loot

Unfortunately for you the opposite is true.

 

[barbos]

Ukraine is losing badly even in the singing department.
Before that they lost badly in poetry department as well.
One ukrainian girl composed some pretty shitty "poem" about how ukrainians are better than russians only to get utterly destroyed by a girl from the Eastern Ukraine.

The song was written before the special operation but very appropriate to the situation.
The guy wrote lyrics and music all by himself and he has voice and more.

 

[laughing dog]

Ukraine is losing badly even in the singing department.

Before that they lost badly in poetry department as well.
One ukrainian girl composed some pretty shitty "poem" about how ukrainians are better than russians only to get utterly destroyed by a girl from the Eastern Ukraine.

The song was written before the special operation but very appropriate to the situation.
The guy wrote lyrics and music all by himself and he has voice and more.

Ukraine did not invade a sovereign country. Your Russian boosting is a pathetic sideshow to the shittiness of the Russian military, the Russian gov't, and the thousands of Russian dupes who swallow the lies of their gov't.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Finland just announced that it won't join NATO unless Sweden is allowed in. This is pretty cool, since Finland has always been a pretty reluctant partner of Sweden. Since Russia took Finland from Sweden (1809) Sweden has always been super nice to Finland while Finland has not been nice to Sweden. Finland has a bit of a complicated relationship to Sweden since they have a large Swedish minority.

As far as I know, this is the first time Finland ever acknowledges that we're brother nations sticking together. We were before this. But Finland has kept pretending that we're not. Now they have stopped pretending. Nothing brings people together as something external that's big and scary. It's kind of beautiful.

It's also bollocks. This patronizing depiction of Finnish-Swedish relations, that is.

What? In what way is it patronizing?

Do you want to see a picture of the monument in Stockholm of all the Swedes who have died defending Finland from Russia?

Most Swedes wouldn't hesitate to defend Finland today.

For historical reasons Swedish patriotism extends to protecting Finland. It's clearly important to a lot of Swedes. I don't see what is patronizing about that?

The patronizing, and somewhat ignorant part was assuming that Finland doesn't recognize the help we got from Sweden, or has been a "reluctant partner". If you read the news, you'll know that what our president said yesterday was a direct reference to what Sweden said in 1939.

Also Finland doesn't have a "complicated relationship" with the Swedish-speaking minority. They're Finns, who happen to speak Swedish, albeit in an accent that real Swedes probably consider funny. And Swedish language has been a mandatory subject in our schools since forever, we absolutely respect the historical bond and friendship.

In any case, the situation now is not so much about leaving either country behind in NATO talks. It's to call out Turkey's bluff. I think Erdogan made a backroom deal with Putin that he'll delay the applications on some pretext, and driving a wedge between Finland and Sweden in an attempt to get either side to give some impossible concessions maybe part of that. Erdogan knows damn well that neither country is going to start extraditing Kurdish activists to Turkey just to get to NATO.

I didn't say Finns have a complicated relationship to the Swedish-Finns. They have a complicated relationship to Sweden and Swedes. I could be wrong. But my impression is that Swedes has always liked Finns more than Finns like Swedes. In the 60'ies Finland offloaded their sickest alcoholics onto Sweden. As well as many of their gypsies. Because they didn't want them to be a drain on the Finnish welfare system. That's not a nice thing to do.

I know the Swedish-Finns have a complicated relationship to both Finland and Sweden. I know plenty. They often have split loyalties (of course). Some identify as primarily Swedish. Some identify as primarily Finnish.

And I never said Finland hasn't been grateful or shown gratitude. But it has been a mixed bag.

And a very interesting thing is that there's 65 000 Finish-Swedes living in Sweden. They're the most invisible of minorities in Sweden. They're almost always assumed not to live in Sweden, even if they may have lived in Sweden for generations. Swedes also too often assume they're Finns talking Swedish with a Finnish accent, rather than an officially recognized dialect of Swedish. I know that annoys them, every time.

 

[barbos]

Seems to me that you (swedes and finns) have some unresolved issues with each other
Good thing russians don't have issues with finns.

 

[Jayjay]

Let's not forget that Ukraine

Ukraine is running out of everything war related - ammunition, fuel, soldiers.

All the more reason to keep supplying them with the first two. Casualties are probably 1-to-1, and while Ukraine is smaller, its fighters are more motivated because they're defending their homeland, while Russian soldiers are in it just for the loot.

No, wrong again. You can supply all you want, but only tiny amount gets to the front line and gets used for anything, usually for murdering civilian population, because it's easier

Of course, your evidence for Ukrainians "murdering civilian population" is either Russian state propaganda, or non-existent.

According to UN, most recorded civilian casualties (3-to-1 ratio) are on Ukrainian controlled territory. Russia is the one killing civilians in this war, they just recently managed to get closer to Kharkiv and the first thing that happened was shelling on civilian neighborhoods. Ukraine of course sometimes hits civilians too, because in a war shit happens, but for Ukraine it's far less frequent.

The way Russian propagandists work is that once the Russian army has shelled a town, they move in their bloggers and media to ogle at the damage and dead bodies and blame it on Ukraine. For example last month in Bilozerka:

https://tass.com/military-operation-in-ukraine/1454211

The Ukrainian news that first reported it mention that the missile came from Russian territory from the South:

https://suspilne.media/241972-na-hersonsini-vijskovi-rf-obstrilali-selise-bilozerka/

This is probably the pattern in 99% of cases where Russia claims that Ukraine shelled civilians. It's all lies.

And, no, it's not 1-to-1 at all. It's been about artillery for a long time now and Russia has huge advantage in that. Ukrainians have no logistics for artillery anymore.
It's 1-to-1 when russian taking the cities, but russians are not doing it anymore. They simply wait until these idiots surrender. Ukrainians can't do shit other that sit in cities and hope russian infantry enters it. In the open field ukrainians gets destroyed 100-to-0. They tried few counter-offensives with simply disastrous results like 1-3 (out of ~100 people) survivors or even no survivors as in the case of Snake Island.
Russian army finally found the formula and it is artillery+UAVs.
Of course slow movement means urainian terrorist army have opportunity to retaliate against pro-russian population with what is left of their artillery.

Russia has advantage in artillery, and that's why Ukrainian aren't going to just go to open fields to be killed. Neither side actually publishes reliable casualty numbers, so your guess is just as bad as mine.

The Russian "formula" is exactly the same they used in Grozny (sans drones) and Aleppo. Destroy everything with artillery until there's nothing where the enemy can hide, move in, repeat.

 

[barbos]

Of course, your evidence for Ukrainians "murdering civilian population" is either Russian state propaganda, or non-existent.

No, it exists just is not being shown in the West.
Or rather not being widely reported.

According to UN, most recorded civilian casualties (3-to-1 ratio) are on Ukrainian controlled territory.

Well, first, UN does not have observers on Russian controlled territories. And second, ukrainian forces murder civilian population on the territory they control just fine.
Why would not they? it's russian pro-russians.

Russia has advantage in artillery, and that's why Ukrainian aren't going to just go to open fields to be killed.

Well, sometime they have no choice. Their Clown President says "I want success!"

The Russian "formula" is exactly the same they used in Grozny (sans drones) and Aleppo. Destroy everything with artillery until there's nothing where the enemy can hide

Well, that's a lie and actually an american strategy because american generals themselves admitted their surprise at how careful russian army was and is.

 

[barbos]

This is probably the pattern in 99% of cases where Russia claims that Ukraine shelled civilians. It's all lies.

Fucking bullshit. The west admitted on multiple occasions that it was ukrainian side who were murdering civilian population. They admit and then quickly forget.
Russia intents to keep all the land they manage to occupy. Nazis know that and that's why they have no problem with shelling them.

 

[Jayjay]

its fighters are more motivated because they're defending their homeland,

Nope, they are not, and they are pretty open about it in these "We quit!" youtube videos. They don't consider Eastern Ukraine their homeland, they consider it Russia and try to bomb civilian population there, have been doing it for 8 years.

The only such video I've seen was them complaining about not having equipment. Not that they didn't want to fight.

There are several "we quit" videos from Russian side as well. And you know the dozens of phone calls where Russians call their mothers or wives and whine about how they want to get out. But these are anecdotal evidence. One or two quitters don't mean anything.

1.4 million people had to flee from Crimea and Donbas after 2014, and a lot of those volunteered to fight before it was mandatory. Your characterization that they don't consider the eastern part of the country their home is just false.

 

[barbos]

There are several "we quit" videos from Russian side as well. And you know the dozens of phone calls where Russians call their mothers or wives and whine about how they want to get out. But these are anecdotal evidence. One or two quitters don't mean anything.

Show the damn video. OK?

Russian army is winning and don't suffer much casualties while doing so.
Western media is lying to you.

 

[Jayjay]

while Russian soldiers are in it just for the loot

Unfortunately for you the opposite is true.

Only because eventually there's not going to be any more stuff to steal, but they still have to survive the rest of their contract.

 

[barbos]

1.4 million people had to flee from Crimea and Donbas after 2014, and a lot of those volunteered to fight before it was mandatory. Your characterization that they don't consider the eastern part of the country their home is just false.

Pretty much nobody fled Crimea even some ukro-nazis decided to get russian passports just in case. There were few scandals with rabidly pro-ukraine assholes having russian passports.
And these who fled Donbas, fled for Russia and even these who fled for Ukraine does not mean they were pro-ukrainian.
And it does not even matter. Nazis don't really care one way or another, they are nazis.
they fucking blow bridges to prevent retreat of their own troops.
Eastern Ukraine is overwhelmingly pro-russian, much more so now because these few who were pro-ukrainian have left it or even became pro-russian.

 

[barbos]

while Russian soldiers are in it just for the loot

Unfortunately for you the opposite is true.

Only because eventually there's not going to be any more stuff to steal, but they still have to survive the rest of their contract.

What that supposed to illustrate?

 

[Jayjay]

I didn't say Finns have a complicated relationship to the Swedish-Finns. They have a complicated relationship to Sweden and Swedes.

But it was implied as if the Swedish-speaking minority had something to do with it. On the contrary, thanks to that there are many connections from Finland to Sweden, and there have always been.

I could be wrong. But my impression is that Swedes has always liked Finns more than Finns like Swedes. In the 60'ies Finland offloaded their sickest alcoholics onto Sweden. As well as many of their gypsies. Because they didn't want them to be a drain on the Finnish welfare system. That's not a nice thing to do.

They might have seemed like the sickest, most violent alcoholics that you had ever seen, but in reality they were just average Finnish people.

And don't start with the Gypsies. Sweden offloaded them to Finland back in the day (they all have Swedish surnames), some may have returned eventually. Probably have family both sides of the border.

 

[barbos]

LOL
I learn so much about Finland and Sweden.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I didn't say Finns have a complicated relationship to the Swedish-Finns. They have a complicated relationship to Sweden and Swedes.

But it was implied as if the Swedish-speaking minority had something to do with it. On the contrary, thanks to that there are many connections from Finland to Sweden, and there have always been.

I assure you, that's something you read into it that wasn't there. And Swedes generally see Swedish-Finns as Finnish. Strange, but true. And Swedes really really like Finns. All Finns. I don't think Swedes in general like Swedish-Finns extra much. I know northern Swedes feel more connection and kinship to northern Finns than to Stockholm. At least, that's what they keep saying.

I could be wrong. But my impression is that Swedes has always liked Finns more than Finns like Swedes. In the 60'ies Finland offloaded their sickest alcoholics onto Sweden. As well as many of their gypsies. Because they didn't want them to be a drain on the Finnish welfare system. That's not a nice thing to do.

They might have seemed like the sickest, most violent alcoholics that you had ever seen, but in reality they were just average Finnish people.

ha ha. Nice save.

And don't start with the Gypsies. Sweden offloaded them to Finland back in the day (they all have Swedish surnames), some may have returned eventually. Probably have family both sides of the border.

ha ha... Yeah. It probably sucks the most for the Gypsies.