Russian Invasion of Ukraine - tactics and logistics

[Loren Pechtel]

The problem with the "agreed upon peace plan" above is the sections requiring to Ukraine to disarm. This would require them trusting Russia to not invade again! How is that possible? Russian word is shit.

I can assure you that Russia will invade Ukraine again if they try to arm themselves again.
And it is your word which is shit. You promised not to expand NATO to the East!
And Putin promised to invade if necessary in 2008. He is a man of his word

Ukraine arming itself isn't NATO pushing east. Rather, it's Ukraine not wanting to be under the Russian thumb. You seem to see everything in terms of Russia vs NATO when the reality is Russia is almost universally opposed, NATO or not. The bear shows it's hunger, people grab for bear rifles.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Another misfortune, russian calibers missiles hit ukrainian command post...... during busy office hours brain storming - 50 high ranking officers including generals dead.
Russian news wrote it a little bit ambiguous , it could be understood as if 50 generals were killed. I suppose russian generals looked at apparent score and decided we need to even it and so they did.

Ukraine isn't stupid enough to have 50 generals in one place if it even has 50 generals.

Thus this is Russian propaganda.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Meanwhile, idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia. The war in which NATO will no legal right to help them.

More Russian propaganda. Lithuania isn't looking to declare war, they're just not permitting their territory to be used for transporting things subject to sanctions.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Meanwhile in other news, M777 howitzers proved to be useless garbage.
Prone to breaking by themselves and having no protection and since Ukraine was not supplied with spare parts even shrapnel can make it inoperable.
Now I understand that video of russian Krasnopol shell "destroying" 2 M777 in one shot. They intentionally hit between them, very cost effective.

Experts say, these howitzers were not designed for artillery duels at all.

Doesn't pass the laugh test--Ukraine has been dispersing it's guns. They wouldn't have had two of them close enough together to be taken out by one shell.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

“idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia”

Love it.
Now I have a visual image of drooling morons frenetically running about, trying to figure out how to “declare war to Russia”.

The more incoherent Barbos becomes, the funnier he gets.

Now you've got me picturing their generals standing around a broken "War" button frantically pushing it like a pedestrian pushing the crosswalk button.

 

[Copernicus]

Another misfortune, russian calibers missiles hit ukrainian command post...... during busy office hours brain storming - 50 high ranking officers including generals dead.
Russian news wrote it a little bit ambiguous , it could be understood as if 50 generals were killed. I suppose russian generals looked at apparent score and decided we need to even it and so they did.

Ukraine isn't stupid enough to have 50 generals in one place if it even has 50 generals.

Thus this is Russian propaganda.

The missile attack on the command post in Shirokaya Dacha in the Dnepropetrovsk region is being reported mainly by Russian and Russia-friendly news sources, and it is extremely unlikely that Russia knows how many people, if any, were killed in that strike on a command post or who they might have been. Western news sources have yet to pick up the story, because there is no confirmation from a reliable source. Apparently, "50" was an estimated number of officers, which may have included some generals. Here is a report made by Iran's Tasnim news agency:

Russia Says over 50 Ukrainian Generals, Officers Killed in Missile Strike​

TEHRAN (Tasnim) – The Russian Defense Ministry said on Sunday that the country’s warships destroyed a command center with Kalibr cruise missiles, killing dozens of Ukrainian officers.​

“More than 50 generals and officers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces were killed,” the statement said.

The strike took place near the village of Shirokaya Dacha in Dnepropetrovsk Region. The strike hit the compound where commanders of several Ukrainian units had gathered for a meeting, Moscow said.

The ministry added that Kalibr missiles were also used to destroy 10 M777 howitzers and up to 20 armored vehicles that were recently delivered from the West, and had been stored inside a factory building in the southern city of Nikolayev, RT reported...

 

[Tigers!]

Meanwhile, idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia. The war in which NATO will no legal right to help them.

Which idiots in Lithuania? (I'll understand if you do not reply)

 

[Tigers!]

When I started taking an interest in looking at the post-war carve-up of Eastern Europe I wondered why did Stalin have these little enclaves dotted all over the place?
Gives the Russians all manner of opportunity to cause mischief with their neighbours and to claim reason to interfere in said neighbours affairs. just looking after our Russian citizens interests they say.
Now 70 years later it can be seen that they were a stroke of genius.

 

[Harry Bosch]

"The situation is more than serious," Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told reporters. "This decision is really unprecedented. It's a violation of everything."

Dmitry P - They say they want spokesperson. I thought, yeah, I work on bicycle all the time. I be good spokesperson.

Has there ever been a country so hypocritical? Ever? Russia violates international law by baring the transit of goods from Ukrainian ports to Africa and the Mid east (agriculture products). And then they get in a hussy when Lithuanian prevents some products from shipping. Many products still go though. It's not a total ban. And yet Russia totally bans shipments from Ukraine!

Well, Russia is an evil imperialist regime. Do you expect them to behave like a normal country?

No. I'm just pointing out how incredibly hypocritical they are. They are also the biggest whinners in history. They bomb the shit out of people, then whine when people fight back. When Hitler was on his rampage, he didn't whine about the American land lease program (which dramatically helped Russia in WW2). Putler is constantly whinning about how the west is being mean to Russia.

 

[SigmatheZeta]

"The situation is more than serious," Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told reporters. "This decision is really unprecedented. It's a violation of everything."

Dmitry P - They say they want spokesperson. I thought, yeah, I work on bicycle all the time. I be good spokesperson.

Has there ever been a country so hypocritical? Ever? Russia violates international law by baring the transit of goods from Ukrainian ports to Africa and the Mid east (agriculture products). And then they get in a hussy when Lithuanian prevents some products from shipping. Many products still go though. It's not a total ban. And yet Russia totally bans shipments from Ukraine!

Well, Russia is an evil imperialist regime. Do you expect them to behave like a normal country?

No. I'm just pointing out how incredibly hypocritical they are. They are also the biggest whinners in history. They bomb the shit out of people, then whine when people fight back. When Hitler was on his rampage, he didn't whine about the American land lease program (which dramatically helped Russia in WW2). Putler is constantly whinning about how the west is being mean to Russia.

Putler is basically ruining his people's lives by driving wealth out of his country. The only country losing HNWIs nearly so fast is China, even them not as dramatically fast.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Harry Bosch]

My very amateur sense here is that Russia right now is at their peak power in Ukraine. I think that it will be down hill from here. And yet, Russia continues to not negotiate in good faith. Rather, they are now threatening Poland and Lithuania. I just don't see any end in sight of Russian imperialism.

 

[Jayjay]

The problem with the "agreed upon peace plan" above is the sections requiring to Ukraine to disarm. This would require them trusting Russia to not invade again! How is that possible? Russian word is shit.

I can assure you that Russia will invade Ukraine again if they try to arm themselves again.
And it is your word which is shit. You promised not to expand NATO to the East!

That's a myth. Nobody promised that. At least not in writing. And sovereign nations can join whatever military alliances they want, without Russia getting a veto.

NATO isn't a threat to Russia, and even Russia knows it. Otherwise you wouldn't be pulling your troops from Kaliningrad and Norwegian border to fight in Ukraine. What NATO is a threat to though, is Russian wars of aggression.

And Putin promised to invade if necessary in 2008. He is a man of his word

A consistent asshole is still an asshole.

 

[Jayjay]

Meanwhile, idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia. The war in which NATO will no legal right to help them.

I haven't heard anything about Lithuania declaring war. It's Russia who's been threatening Lithuania with "serious consequences":

Russia threatens ‘serious consequences’ as Lithuania blocks rail goods

Row escalates over Vilnius’s refusal to allow steel and iron ore to cross Russian exclave of Kaliningrad

www.theguardian.com

[Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation] Nikolai Patrushev upped the rhetoric by threatening “serious consequences”.

“Russia will certainly respond to such hostile actions,” Patrushev said. “Appropriate measures … will be taken in the near future … Their consequences will have a serious negative impact on the population of Lithuania”.

In the upside-down world of Russian propaganda, I guess this translates to "Lithuania declaring war". But if Russia were to try to take the Suwalki gap by force, NATO would certainly have every reason to intervene, so in all likelihood Russia is only going to settle for its usual mischief like cyber attacks or airspace violations.

 

[Jayjay]

There is something ... off... about Russians who complain about NATO expansion. And I can see only two reasons for this.

Option1: Russians are too stupid to understand what a defensive alliance entails. This option is valid because there is no real reason for a peaceful people to care about defensive alliances or their size or location. Which leads us to ...

Option2: Russians are so violent and duplicitous that they know they can't help but to attack their neighbors. Even neighbors whom they have given written promises to not attack, like Ukraine with the Budapest Memorandum. So these Russians will understand that, to other peaceful countries, a defensive alliance has no meaning or purpose and constitutes no threat. But these smart Russians have the intelligence to understand that they themselves aren't peaceful people and deep down crave unnecessary violence which actually DOES make NATO a threat. These Russians can't help but to crave murder and mayham so that they can rape, pillage, and steal.

So which is it? Are Russians too fucking violent for this world or too fucking stupid?

Maybe there is a third option (besides 'both') and I'm just not seeing it.

You have to understand that Russians are utterly obsessed with NATO and the West, due to constant propaganda since the Soviet days that frames them as their adversaries. Meanwhile the west would want nothing more than to kick back, trade with Russia, and not have to worry about which country it'll attack next.

This guy seems to have the right idea:

What might be the average Russian's worldview? • WarTranslated

I will dare and take such a responsibility and (attempt) to explain to my international audience how it might feel being a Russian from several perspectives. I will rely on my own partial belonging to the Russian people, and on the experience of when I was in Russia, spoke to Russians, and lived...

wartranslated.com

Our Common Enemy​

The stubbornness of the patriotism of many Russians is undoubtedly linked with the effects of the propaganda, which albeit in some ways is based off well-founded fears, it is inflated to unprecedented levels in Russia. Speaking to a Russian person, a foreigner may be really taken aback by inconsistencies – Russians blame EVERYONE, often contradictory phenomena and population groups, including Americans, Ukrainians, Poles, Nazis, Jews, Muslims, officials, bureaucrats, liberals, communists, homosexuals… Ask any Russian and they will always show you exactly who is ruining their life.

By having a common enemy it is much easier to unite and survive the hard times, especially if you are not afraid of the consequences. By shifting the responsibility for your own failures to others you stop being responsible for anything and can rely on the big man (in our case, Putin) to solve everything. Your life gets much easier.

 

[Jayjay]

Meanwhile, idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia. The war in which NATO will no legal right to help them.

What are you talking about here? The so-called "right of free transit" is allowed for nations that are in peace. Countries that are at war and not trusted don't get the benefit of right of free transit. Another example of the Russian loss of soft power.

Yep, Lithuania is at war with Russia now

Meanwhile in other news, M777 howitzers proved to be useless garbage.
Prone to breaking by themselves and having no protection and since Ukraine was not supplied with spare parts even shrapnel can make it inoperable.
Now I understand that video of russian Krasnopol shell "destroying" 2 M777 in one shot. They intentionally hit between them, very cost effective.

Experts say, these howitzers were not designed for artillery duels at all.

Riiight! Just like your claim in the very beginning that Javelins are no problem for Russian tanks! However, if you are right, Russia should be happy to allow the west to resupply Ukraine with more western arms.

Well he's right that M777s don't seem to be faring too well. The sources I follow say that about third of them delivered so far have already been destroyed, either due to poor training or just because Ukraine simply doesn't have the solution to Russian artillery tactics.

The longer range mobile guns like the French Ceasars and Polish Krabs seem to be faring better, but eventually, some of them will be hit too. Ukraine needs more long-range weapons and counter-artillery radars, and MANPADS to shoot down Russian drones wouldn't hurt either. Petraeus said on CNN recently that US should give Ukraine Predator drones. That's a bit drastic, but it's beginning to look like that's what it'd take.

 

[Elixir]

Petraeus said on CNN recently that US should give Ukraine Predator drones. That's a bit drastic, but it's beginning to look like that's what it'd take.

It should have been done a long time ago (March) before Putler had time to build up his offensive in eastern Ukraine.
Better late than never? Not much better.

 

[Copernicus]

There is something ... off... about Russians who complain about NATO expansion. And I can see only two reasons for this.

Option1: Russians are too stupid to understand what a defensive alliance entails. This option is valid because there is no real reason for a peaceful people to care about defensive alliances or their size or location. Which leads us to ...

Option2: Russians are so violent and duplicitous that they know they can't help but to attack their neighbors. Even neighbors whom they have given written promises to not attack, like Ukraine with the Budapest Memorandum. So these Russians will understand that, to other peaceful countries, a defensive alliance has no meaning or purpose and constitutes no threat. But these smart Russians have the intelligence to understand that they themselves aren't peaceful people and deep down crave unnecessary violence which actually DOES make NATO a threat. These Russians can't help but to crave murder and mayham so that they can rape, pillage, and steal.

So which is it? Are Russians too fucking violent for this world or too fucking stupid?

Maybe there is a third option (besides 'both') and I'm just not seeing it.

You have to understand that Russians are utterly obsessed with NATO and the West, due to constant propaganda since the Soviet days that frames them as their adversaries. Meanwhile the west would want nothing more than to kick back, trade with Russia, and not have to worry about which country it'll attack next.

This guy seems to have the right idea:

What might be the average Russian's worldview? • WarTranslated

I will dare and take such a responsibility and (attempt) to explain to my international audience how it might feel being a Russian from several perspectives. I will rely on my own partial belonging to the Russian people, and on the experience of when I was in Russia, spoke to Russians, and lived...

wartranslated.com

Our Common Enemy​

The stubbornness of the patriotism of many Russians is undoubtedly linked with the effects of the propaganda, which albeit in some ways is based off well-founded fears, it is inflated to unprecedented levels in Russia. Speaking to a Russian person, a foreigner may be really taken aback by inconsistencies – Russians blame EVERYONE, often contradictory phenomena and population groups, including Americans, Ukrainians, Poles, Nazis, Jews, Muslims, officials, bureaucrats, liberals, communists, homosexuals… Ask any Russian and they will always show you exactly who is ruining their life.

By having a common enemy it is much easier to unite and survive the hard times, especially if you are not afraid of the consequences. By shifting the responsibility for your own failures to others you stop being responsible for anything and can rely on the big man (in our case, Putin) to solve everything. Your life gets much easier.

I see Vladimir Putin as a cheerleader for all of the flawed thinking that infects the public mind. The rampant "common enemy" paranoia isn't the only technique that people use to justify bad behavior. It isn't just about feeling persecuted. A big part of the problem is the continual references to the transparent hypocrisy they perceive in their common enemy. Americans love to scold others for committing sins, but their own history is full of the very same types of behavior that they are criticizing Russians for. Putin is constantly telling his public that they are doing nothing worse or different from what Western nations have done in the past in other wars. He brings up Vietnam and Iraq as if those American wars somehow justified his own invasion of Ukraine. His military uses cluster bombs, which are banned internationally by the  Convention on Cluster Munitions. Notably missing signatories on that treaty are countries that manufacture and use them in warfare: United States, Russia, China.

The argument that the others do it too is almost always used to justify cruel and inhumane behavior, never to blame or criticize those other parties that do it. You hear this type of rhetoric repeated constantly by Russians and others who support them in their invasion of Ukraine.

 

[Jayjay]

The Odessa union building fire was a tragic accident.

Really?
There was nothing accidental about it. Current ukrainian regime was responsible for it.
In case you were not aware, police was present and did nothing to prevent it and later did nothing to investigate and punish perpetrators.

Yes, Ukraine is a corrupt country where justice is rarely found. It has that in common with Russia. But at least it's trying to be better.

In case like this it's difficult to prove who exactly set the building on fire, though in all likelihood it was the people with Molotov cocktails (though it's unsure if those were Ukrainian nationalists, or Russian agents). And the anti-Maidan person who fired in the crowds is still living free in Russia too, so spare us the hypocrisy.

Besides, Russia shot down a passenger plane with five times as many victims as the Odessa fire, and it still hasn't done anything about that. And during this war, Russia has fired missiles at Odessa and probably killed more Odessans than both those incidents combined. When are you going to investigate and punish the perpetrators of those strikes?

Once Odessa is back in Russia they will try to start investigation and bring perpetrators to justice.

Just like you did in Bucha, Borodyanka, Makariv, Izuym, Mariupol, ... pretty much everywhere. People murdered without trial and dumped into ditches. the Russian method of "bringing perpetrators to justice" in the areas it occupies is well-known, and I have no doubts you'll do the same if or when you reach Odessa.

2014 Donetsk bombing was accident too?

Donetsk was and is a war zone. Not sure if the victims were collaborators, or innocent civilians, but they were collaterals in a war started by Russia.

 

[Jayjay]

Meanwhile, idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia. The war in which NATO will no legal right to help them.

What are you talking about here? The so-called "right of free transit" is allowed for nations that are in peace. Countries that are at war and not trusted don't get the benefit of right of free transit. Another example of the Russian loss of soft power.

Yep, Lithuania is at war with Russia now

Meanwhile in other news, M777 howitzers proved to be useless garbage.
Prone to breaking by themselves and having no protection and since Ukraine was not supplied with spare parts even shrapnel can make it inoperable.
Now I understand that video of russian Krasnopol shell "destroying" 2 M777 in one shot. They intentionally hit between them, very cost effective.

Experts say, these howitzers were not designed for artillery duels at all.

Riiight! Just like your claim in the very beginning that Javelins are no problem for Russian tanks! However, if you are right, Russia should be happy to allow the west to resupply Ukraine with more western arms.

Why should Russia be happy about you causing more ukrainians to die?

Russia is going to kill Ukrainian soldiers whether they use Javelins, or pea shooters. But the chances of survival are higher, the better the weapons.