Russian Opposition Leader Gunned Down

[barbos]

Anyhow, back to the immediate topic. I liked that guy, he is a 90s era guy, was a youngest governor and then he became a minister of something during Eltsin. You could say he was a russian version Obama who failed to get elected to be president. He was a good but rather naive guy. His political career was effectively retired but he was still popular among opposition and it was not unconceivable for him to get back into serious politics. Of course, he had baggage from 90s and early 2000s, but nothing too fatal, well, except his party last fail where they used private jets in their political ads, that was patently stupid. Latest addition to working theories is that chechens and SBU (ukrainian security) are involved. Previous Ukrainian government jailed one chechen guy for attempting to assassinate Putin (he really was a terrorist) But after Maidan they released him and this could explain why and what for. Killers don't look professional and it does not look that actually killing him was their goal. Other theory is about that girl and jealousy. Nemtsov was a laddie's man but I doubt this theory.

 

[Ford]

Well at least now we've got the official version. Again.

 

[Earl IV]

I can't help but wonder where the "volunteer" - "not Russian soldiers" Russian supporters got their heavy machinery.
I mean, does everyone over there have a tank in the driveway?

 

[bilby]

I can't help but wonder where the "volunteer" - "not Russian soldiers" Russian supporters got their heavy machinery.
I mean, does everyone over there have a tank in the driveway?

Don't be silly, of course not.

Some of them have a BUK anti-aircraft missile system.

 

[Jayjay]

Anyhow, back to the immediate topic. I liked that guy, he is a 90s era guy, was a youngest governor and then he became a minister of something during Eltsin. You could say he was a russian version Obama who failed to get elected to be president. He was a good but rather naive guy. His political career was effectively retired but he was still popular among opposition and it was not unconceivable for him to get back into serious politics. Of course, he had baggage from 90s and early 2000s, but nothing too fatal, well, except his party last fail where they used private jets in their political ads, that was patently stupid. Latest addition to working theories is that chechens and SBU (ukrainian security) are involved. Previous Ukrainian government jailed one chechen guy for attempting to assassinate Putin (he really was a terrorist) But after Maidan they released him and this could explain why and what for. Killers don't look professional and it does not look that actually killing him was their goal. Other theory is about that girl and jealousy. Nemtsov was a laddie's man but I doubt this theory.

Could it be that her being Ukrainian rubbed someone in the anti-Maidan movement the wrong way?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You're the one who called yourself the "Russofile"! You are blaming me for the strawman that you created!

Which is it? A russophile likes Russia; A russofile simply has a lot of information about Russia...

No, a russofile is a device which grinds away Russian things.

 

[barbos]

Anyhow, back to the immediate topic. I liked that guy, he is a 90s era guy, was a youngest governor and then he became a minister of something during Eltsin. You could say he was a russian version Obama who failed to get elected to be president. He was a good but rather naive guy. His political career was effectively retired but he was still popular among opposition and it was not unconceivable for him to get back into serious politics. Of course, he had baggage from 90s and early 2000s, but nothing too fatal, well, except his party last fail where they used private jets in their political ads, that was patently stupid. Latest addition to working theories is that chechens and SBU (ukrainian security) are involved. Previous Ukrainian government jailed one chechen guy for attempting to assassinate Putin (he really was a terrorist) But after Maidan they released him and this could explain why and what for. Killers don't look professional and it does not look that actually killing him was their goal. Other theory is about that girl and jealousy. Nemtsov was a laddie's man but I doubt this theory.

Could it be that her being Ukrainian rubbed someone in the anti-Maidan movement the wrong way?

There are a lot of ukrainians in Russia, and they are not killing anyone for contact with them.
Whoever it is, it seems they will be caught, too much evidence.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Could it be that her being Ukrainian rubbed someone in the anti-Maidan movement the wrong way?

There are a lot of ukrainians in Russia, and they are not killing anyone for contact with them.
Whoever it is, it seems they will be caught, too much evidence.

Agree with the too much evidence.

Agree to disagree that they will be caught.

 

[boneyard bill]

You people do understand that Putin is the last person who needs this shit?
I mean inside Russia nobody is so brain-dead and idiotic to suggest that Putin did that, but in the West it's another story and if there is one thing Putin does not need is more idiotic accusations from the west.

Calling Nemptsov an "opposition leader" is sort of like calling Ralph Nader and opposition leader in the US. Nemptsov was prominent for a while when the neo-liberals were influential in Russia in the 1990's, but he has been off the political stage for the better part of a decade at least. He does not hold a seat in the Duma and neither does anyone from his party. His opposition to Putin doesn't carry much weight in Russia today. The leading opposition party in the Duma is the Communist Party.

 

[barbos]

You people do understand that Putin is the last person who needs this shit?
I mean inside Russia nobody is so brain-dead and idiotic to suggest that Putin did that, but in the West it's another story and if there is one thing Putin does not need is more idiotic accusations from the west.

Calling Nemptsov an "opposition leader" is sort of like calling Ralph Nader and opposition leader in the US. Nemptsov was prominent for a while when the neo-liberals were influential in Russia in the 1990's, but he has been off the political stage for the better part of a decade at least. He does not hold a seat in the Duma and neither does anyone from his party. His opposition to Putin doesn't carry much weight in Russia today. The leading opposition party in the Duma is the Communist Party.

Partially true, but people in the West/US don't even know that.
In Russia word "opposition" means neo-liberal pro-western type of opposition, the one which US wants to come to power, communists are not considered an opposition (except by communists themselves)
In any case, Nemtsov was quite a bit more than Russian Ralph Nader, you could call him one of the leaders of the oppositions. Navalny is a top dog in opposition movement now, he is younger and more active.

 

[tupac chopra]

Supposed dashcam footage of the getaway car. though i'm not sure it syncs with the other video
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDa5ba20Azw[/YOUTUBE]

 

[boneyard bill]

Calling Nemptsov an "opposition leader" is sort of like calling Ralph Nader and opposition leader in the US. Nemptsov was prominent for a while when the neo-liberals were influential in Russia in the 1990's, but he has been off the political stage for the better part of a decade at least. He does not hold a seat in the Duma and neither does anyone from his party. His opposition to Putin doesn't carry much weight in Russia today. The leading opposition party in the Duma is the Communist Party.

Partially true, but people in the West/US don't even know that.
In Russia word "opposition" means neo-liberal pro-western type of opposition, the one which US wants to come to power, communists are not considered an opposition (except by communists themselves)
In any case, Nemtsov was quite a bit more than Russian Ralph Nader, you could call him one of the leaders of the oppositions. Navalny is a top dog in opposition movement now, he is younger and more active.

At one time Nemtsov was more significant than Ralph Nader, but could that be said of his career lately? Has he really done anything in politics for the past decade?

Certainly, by American standards the Communist Party would be the leading opposition in Russia and Nemtsov's Party would be considered a nuisance like the Green Party in the US.

 

[barbos]

Partially true, but people in the West/US don't even know that.
In Russia word "opposition" means neo-liberal pro-western type of opposition, the one which US wants to come to power, communists are not considered an opposition (except by communists themselves)
In any case, Nemtsov was quite a bit more than Russian Ralph Nader, you could call him one of the leaders of the oppositions. Navalny is a top dog in opposition movement now, he is younger and more active.

At one time Nemtsov was more significant than Ralph Nader, but could that be said of his career lately? Has he really done anything in politics for the past decade?

He has not done much personally, but he was a part of the actual opposition which had been in power before. Nader is really alone.

Certainly, by American standards the Communist Party would be the leading opposition in Russia and Nemtsov's Party would be considered a nuisance like the Green Party in the US.

No, Communist party is actually a nuisance. They have their solid support from older folk and has no chance in other demographics, so no chance to winning in any elections. Neo-liberals support overall is very small (people still remember 90s) currently but it could change, so they are the real opposition. And US is making a great disservice to russian opposition with all that Ukraine stuff.

 

[Togo]

Well, at least it was nothing to do with the Protest he was organising against the Russian invasion of the Ukraine.

 

[Duke Leto]

Just out of morbid curiosity to the Russophiles in the thread...

Is there hypothetically evidence that could convince you that Russia is the aggressor in Ukraine, and the current Ukrainian government is not a bunch of CIA sponsored fascists?

That is, are you even willing to entertain the possibility that you're the propaganda dupes and not us?

Just checking.

So we're clear, the two most vocal proponents of the Russian Media version of the story, barbos and tupac chopra, did not respond in any way to proffered question: "Is there any information that might convince them they are mistaken in believing the Russian Media version of events is propaganda and the Western version is not?"

I repeat it.

 

[barbos]

Just out of morbid curiosity to the Russophiles in the thread...

Is there hypothetically evidence that could convince you that Russia is the aggressor in Ukraine, and the current Ukrainian government is not a bunch of CIA sponsored fascists?

That is, are you even willing to entertain the possibility that you're the propaganda dupes and not us?

Just checking.

So we're clear, the two most vocal proponents of the Russian Media version of the story, barbos and tupac chopra, did not respond in any way to proffered question: "Is there any information that might convince them they are mistaken in believing the Russian Media version of events is propaganda and the Western version is not?"

I repeat it.

In your question you assume that you are right, when in fact opposite is true.
I can turn around and ask your question to you:
When are you going to stop beating your wife?

 

[Duke Leto]

So we're clear, the two most vocal proponents of the Russian Media version of the story, barbos and tupac chopra, did not respond in any way to proffered question: "Is there any information that might convince them they are mistaken in believing the Russian Media version of events is propaganda and the Western version is not?"

I repeat it.

In your question you assume that you are right, when in fact opposite is true.
I can turn around and ask your question to you:
When are you going to stop beating your wife?

No it really wasn't a loaded question. At least not the way you think it is.

I can foresee possible events that might bring me around to your point of view. If for example a CIA insider leaked documents corroborating their involvement in the Ukraine coup, or Ukrainian nationalists actually did start executing Russians in the streets.

I wanted if you could think of anything that might change your point of view on the matter.

Of course I AM expecting the answer "No" at least from tupac chopra, which means that there's no point in discussion except convincing third parties of his and your dogmatism on the matter.

 

[tupac chopra]

Just out of morbid curiosity to the Russophiles in the thread...

Is there hypothetically evidence that could convince you that Russia is the aggressor in Ukraine, and the current Ukrainian government is not a bunch of CIA sponsored fascists?

That is, are you even willing to entertain the possibility that you're the propaganda dupes and not us?

Just checking.

So we're clear, the two most vocal proponents of the Russian Media version of the story, barbos and tupac chopra,

How am I a proponent of any view? I posted two videos of the incident or close to the incident without taking a view.

did not respond in any way to proffered question: "Is there any information that might convince them they are mistaken in believing the Russian Media version of events is propaganda and the Western version is not?"

Did you phrase this question the way you wanted?

But to try and answer your question as far as I can. Any version which says Putin is responsible without any evidence is propaganda.

I'm not sure what you think is the Russian media version, but if you can tell me what you mean by that, with links to Russian media I'd be more than happy to address the rest of your question

 

[tupac chopra]

Of course I AM expecting the answer "No" at least from tupac chopra, which means that there's no point in discussion except convincing third parties of his and your dogmatism on the matter.

I'd prefer to follow evidence. Which probably means I'll remain agnostic about who did it.

On the other hand John Mc Cain has publicly said Putin is responsible no matter who did it

 

[Duke Leto]

Of course I AM expecting the answer "No" at least from tupac chopra, which means that there's no point in discussion except convincing third parties of his and your dogmatism on the matter.

I'd prefer to follow any evidence. Which probably means I'll remain agnostic about who did it

We were discussing more the causes of and responsibility for the Ukrainian conflict as a whole. But thanks anyway.