Science says Bible and Quran are equivalent

[DrZoidberg]

Don't know what bible you have comprehended. Or why people always want to assume someone is christian, or what football has to do with the One Creator GOD.

When people tell me they believe in God my assumption is that God to them is a empty canvas onto which they can project whatever their deepest desires are. It's pretty much Santa Claus but draped in mystical vague language. An abstract Santa if you will.

So far that definition has served me pretty well.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Don't know what bible you have comprehended. Or why people always want to assume someone is christian, or what football has to do with the One Creator GOD.

When people tell me they believe in God my assumption is that God to them is a empty canvas onto which they can project whatever their deepest desires are. It's pretty much Santa Claus but draped in mystical vague language. An abstract Santa if you will.

So far that definition has served me pretty well.

Ones desires have little to do with GOD, or man's direction by God's will. If it does seem that one's belief in GOD or the attributes they say God has are specifically beneficial to them or some divided group of people, then its safe to say that they are full of shit, or at least quite confused.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Malintent]

When people tell me they believe in God my assumption is that God to them is a empty canvas onto which they can project whatever their deepest desires are. It's pretty much Santa Claus but draped in mystical vague language. An abstract Santa if you will.

So far that definition has served me pretty well.

Ones desires have little to do with GOD, or man's direction by God's will. If it does seem that one's belief in GOD or the attributes they say God has are specifically beneficial to them or some divided group of people, then its safe to say that they are full of shit, or at least quite confused.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

With all due respect, I think you are full of shit and completely confused, if you believe in the existence of any of the fictional characters that have been written about in the countless, conflicting scriptures.

 

[DrZoidberg]

When people tell me they believe in God my assumption is that God to them is a empty canvas onto which they can project whatever their deepest desires are. It's pretty much Santa Claus but draped in mystical vague language. An abstract Santa if you will.

So far that definition has served me pretty well.

Ones desires have little to do with GOD, or man's direction by God's will. If it does seem that one's belief in GOD or the attributes they say God has are specifically beneficial to them or some divided group of people, then its safe to say that they are full of shit, or at least quite confused.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

I don't know about that. I think it's quite healthy to explore one's deepest desires. For most of that, that requires a lot of work. It's certainly been the case for me. An ever ongoing project. I can understand how it can be psychologically beneficial to project those onto something external.

Let me pose a question to you, how isn't God simply a projection of your deepest desires? How can you know it isn't?

 

[skepticalbip]

Ones desires have little to do with GOD, or man's direction by God's will. If it does seem that one's belief in GOD or the attributes they say God has are specifically beneficial to them or some divided group of people, then its safe to say that they are full of shit, or at least quite confused.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

I don't know about that. I think it's quite healthy to explore one's deepest desires. For most of that, that requires a lot of work. It's certainly been the case for me. An ever ongoing project. I can understand how it can be psychologically beneficial to project those onto something external.

Let me pose a question to you, how isn't God simply a projection of your deepest desires? How can you know it isn't?

That's close to what I have thought is the principle for people's belief in gods. It is a powerful ego affirmation for them to "know" that there is an infinitely superior intelligence that not only cares about them personally but who holds the same opinions, biases, hatreds they do plus this being eases their fear of death by promising eternal bliss because the believer is such a wonderful person.

 

[popsthebuilder]

skepticalbip,

You bring up an outstanding point.
And many arragantly, and pridefuly propogate that very wrong concept of religion. It is the actual people referenced in the Qur'an that some seem to be confusing with ignorant atheists (not that all atheists are ignorant or safe).

God cares about all of it's formation/ creation/ existence.

Opinion, bias, and most assuredly; hatred, are not of a man truly striving to be guided down the narrow path of God's direction. There is no bias in GOD but to those whom knowingly go against the will of GOD. To do that you must first know of that will, by God's grace, mercy and will. Therefore, those ignorantly assuming God's will or credence based on the actions of the blasphemous are technically not at fault.

You bring up another good point in heaven.

Heaven, hell, and earth as we know it will all come to an end. All that will remain is God's will.

The people vainly thinking they are going to heaven while others spend eternity in hell are simply being vain and prideful. Both of which, again, are spoken against in peaceable monotheistic core scriptures. You should act a particular way and strive to do all because you know in your heart (selfless conscience) that it is the right thing to do. Not because of any reward in this material plane, or whatever you think may or may not lie after it.

2¢

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[DBT]

It doesn't matter how many times you tell me, you were wrong the first time an wrong every time every time after that.

I even pointed out that it doesn't matter who it refers to, the attitude is not one of mercy or tolerance.

Plus, Many atheists do know what the Quran and the bible say about 'God's will, yet reject this on the basis of no evidence for the existence of this or that God.

Even worse, some of the verses specify that disbelief is worse than killing- hence killing an disbeliever is the lesser of two 'evils'

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

Furthermore, other verses specify that it is Allah who seals the hearts and ears of unbelievers:
“This Book is not to be doubted…. As for the unbelievers, it is the same whether or not you forewarn them; they will not have faith. God has set a seal upon their hearts and ears; their sight is dimmed and grievous punishment awaits them.” Quran 2:1/2:6-2:10

Consequently the blame for disbelief lies at the feet of Allah, who hardens the hearts and minds of unbelievers (in the biblical tradition) and then punishes them for their 'transgression'

Where is this mercy?

Read the book without your own Islam hates me glasses on, because regardless of how the people may or at not act, the Qur'an is clear on what that word means and it's clear about mercy among men and th mercy of GOD.
Not to be confused with blind tolerance regardless of actions. Non believer in the Qur'an is equivalent to those who knowingly blaspheme. It is the unforgiven sin. Stop acting like it refers to you, the ignorant, it a getting old, and was already played out.

Peace

It's nothing to do with what I think or what I believe - a non existent god cannot hate me - but what the Quran actually says about unbelievers and the attitude that the Quran displays against unbelievers regardless of apostates or polytheists, or unbelievers in general ( Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing)... ....which cannot be rationalized away.

Oh yeah, mercy is supported in the Qur'an at least 201 times.
Peace is supported no less than 97 times.

Except for those who do not share the faith, or are not allied to Islam.

“Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.” Quran 48:29

''To deny God’s own revelation, grudging that He should reveal His bounty to whom He chooses from among His servants! They have incurred God’s most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits the unbelievers.” Quran 2:89-2:90

“Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another…” Quran 5:51

Evidently you have no interest in understanding the Qur'an. That's fine. It's your right. I could go through again and show you what those texts mean within context, but I really am tired of wasting my time.

I can say exactly the same thing about you, only I happen to be right.

I can understand your position, your desire for the security of a merciful god, Allah in this instance, does not allow you to acknowledge what it clear to most objective readers: that the verses I quoted, including a large part of the Quran do represent an actual caring, merciful god but the aims of the founder of Islam, Muhammad and his followers.


“Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.” Quran 48:29

“Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed with rods of iron.''

In all honesty, can you really claim that this this is the inspired work of a Cosmic Being capable of creating a Universe, yet displaying all the qualities of an early middle ages despot? Not a chance, sorry.

Just no that everything you quoted is again taken way out of context.

Context changes nothing in terms of morality or mercy...regardless of how many times you repeat the assertion.

You want context? Here's an overview:

“About sixty-one percent of the contents of the Koran are found to speak ill of the unbelievers or call for their violent conquest; at best only 2.6 percent of the verses of the Koran are noted to show goodwill toward humanity. About seventy-five percent of Muhammad’s biography (Sira) consists of jihad waged on unbelievers.”

–Dr. Moorthy Muthuswamy
As far as your heart being hardened; yes all is of GOD, but to condemn yourself is not his will. You may be atheist for the majority of your life, all of it, or not for much longer. All is of GOD, and you are free.

I sincerely hope that you find whatever it is you are searching for. Your conscience will lead you to the truth.

I'm not searching for anything. Just pointing out fallacies as described and quoted. The meaning is quite clear.

Kaffir is an Arabic term for a nonbeliever or “infidel - ''a highly derogatory Arabic term used to refer to non-Muslims, though it is usually directed less against “People of the Book” (Christians and Jews) and more against others (Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoists, etc).''

“Against kuffars make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war to strike terror into the (hearts of) the Enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside, whom you may not know, but whom Allah does know. Whatever you shall spend in the Cause of Allah, shall be repaid to you, and you shall not be treated unjustly.” (Qur’an: 8:60)

Again, this is clearly a reflection of the aim and purpose of Muhammad and his followers, and nothing whatsoever to do with a merciful god.

 

[popsthebuilder]

It doesn't matter how many times you tell me, you were wrong the first time an wrong every time every time after that.

I even pointed out that it doesn't matter who it refers to, the attitude is not one of mercy or tolerance.

Plus, Many atheists do know what the Quran and the bible say about 'God's will, yet reject this on the basis of no evidence for the existence of this or that God.

Even worse, some of the verses specify that disbelief is worse than killing- hence killing an disbeliever is the lesser of two 'evils'

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

Furthermore, other verses specify that it is Allah who seals the hearts and ears of unbelievers:
“This Book is not to be doubted…. As for the unbelievers, it is the same whether or not you forewarn them; they will not have faith. God has set a seal upon their hearts and ears; their sight is dimmed and grievous punishment awaits them.” Quran 2:1/2:6-2:10

Consequently the blame for disbelief lies at the feet of Allah, who hardens the hearts and minds of unbelievers (in the biblical tradition) and then punishes them for their 'transgression'

Where is this mercy?

Read the book without your own Islam hates me glasses on, because regardless of how the people may or at not act, the Qur'an is clear on what that word means and it's clear about mercy among men and th mercy of GOD.
Not to be confused with blind tolerance regardless of actions. Non believer in the Qur'an is equivalent to those who knowingly blaspheme. It is the unforgiven sin. Stop acting like it refers to you, the ignorant, it a getting old, and was already played out.

Peace

It's nothing to do with what I think or what I believe - a non existent god cannot hate me - but what the Quran actually says about unbelievers and the attitude that the Quran displays against unbelievers regardless of apostates or polytheists, or unbelievers in general ( Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing)... ....which cannot be rationalized away.

Oh yeah, mercy is supported in the Qur'an at least 201 times.
Peace is supported no less than 97 times.

Except for those who do not share the faith, or are not allied to Islam.

“Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.” Quran 48:29

''To deny God’s own revelation, grudging that He should reveal His bounty to whom He chooses from among His servants! They have incurred God’s most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits the unbelievers.” Quran 2:89-2:90

“Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another…” Quran 5:51

Evidently you have no interest in understanding the Qur'an. That's fine. It's your right. I could go through again and show you what those texts mean within context, but I really am tired of wasting my time.

I can say exactly the same thing about you, only I happen to be right.

I can understand your position, your desire for the security of a merciful god, Allah in this instance, does not allow you to acknowledge what it clear to most objective readers: that the verses I quoted, including a large part of the Quran do represent an actual caring, merciful god but the aims of the founder of Islam, Muhammad and his followers.


“Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.” Quran 48:29

“Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed with rods of iron.''

In all honesty, can you really claim that this this is the inspired work of a Cosmic Being capable of creating a Universe, yet displaying all the qualities of an early middle ages despot? Not a chance, sorry.

Just no that everything you quoted is again taken way out of context.

Context changes nothing in terms of morality or mercy...regardless of how many times you repeat the assertion.

You want context? Here's an overview:

“About sixty-one percent of the contents of the Koran are found to speak ill of the unbelievers or call for their violent conquest; at best only 2.6 percent of the verses of the Koran are noted to show goodwill toward humanity. About seventy-five percent of Muhammad’s biography (Sira) consists of jihad waged on unbelievers.”

–Dr. Moorthy Muthuswamy
As far as your heart being hardened; yes all is of GOD, but to condemn yourself is not his will. You may be atheist for the majority of your life, all of it, or not for much longer. All is of GOD, and you are free.

I sincerely hope that you find whatever it is you are searching for. Your conscience will lead you to the truth.

I'm not searching for anything. Just pointing out fallacies as described and quoted. The meaning is quite clear.

Kaffir is an Arabic term for a nonbeliever or “infidel - ''a highly derogatory Arabic term used to refer to non-Muslims, though it is usually directed less against “People of the Book” (Christians and Jews) and more against others (Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoists, etc).''

“Against kuffars make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war to strike terror into the (hearts of) the Enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside, whom you may not know, but whom Allah does know. Whatever you shall spend in the Cause of Allah, shall be repaid to you, and you shall not be treated unjustly.” (Qur’an: 8:60)

Again, this is clearly a reflection of the aim and purpose of Muhammad and his followers, and nothing whatsoever to do with a merciful god.

I've read and do read the Qur'an without bias, and without any preconceptions. I don't need someone else's opinion on what is clear for me to comprehend.

I can cherry pick and twist any partial quote to people that don't know better and they may believe me. But I don't. Your not doing to change my understanding of the Qur'an with your lack there of, no matter what opinions you assert, or who's opinions they initially where.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Malintent]

You should act a particular way and strive to do all because you know in your heart (selfless conscience) that it is the right thing to do. Not because of any reward in this material plane, or whatever you think may or may not lie after it.

With this, I can wholeheartedly agree.

I find that one cannot do this with religion driving their actions and words, at least not those that have been written down and called the 'Abrahamic religions', which only lead you away from 'good conscious'.

 

[Malintent]

It doesn't matter how many times you tell me, you were wrong the first time an wrong every time every time after that.

I even pointed out that it doesn't matter who it refers to, the attitude is not one of mercy or tolerance.

Plus, Many atheists do know what the Quran and the bible say about 'God's will, yet reject this on the basis of no evidence for the existence of this or that God.

Even worse, some of the verses specify that disbelief is worse than killing- hence killing an disbeliever is the lesser of two 'evils'

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

Furthermore, other verses specify that it is Allah who seals the hearts and ears of unbelievers:
“This Book is not to be doubted…. As for the unbelievers, it is the same whether or not you forewarn them; they will not have faith. God has set a seal upon their hearts and ears; their sight is dimmed and grievous punishment awaits them.” Quran 2:1/2:6-2:10

Consequently the blame for disbelief lies at the feet of Allah, who hardens the hearts and minds of unbelievers (in the biblical tradition) and then punishes them for their 'transgression'

Where is this mercy?

Read the book without your own Islam hates me glasses on, because regardless of how the people may or at not act, the Qur'an is clear on what that word means and it's clear about mercy among men and th mercy of GOD.
Not to be confused with blind tolerance regardless of actions. Non believer in the Qur'an is equivalent to those who knowingly blaspheme. It is the unforgiven sin. Stop acting like it refers to you, the ignorant, it a getting old, and was already played out.

Peace

It's nothing to do with what I think or what I believe - a non existent god cannot hate me - but what the Quran actually says about unbelievers and the attitude that the Quran displays against unbelievers regardless of apostates or polytheists, or unbelievers in general ( Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing)... ....which cannot be rationalized away.

Oh yeah, mercy is supported in the Qur'an at least 201 times.
Peace is supported no less than 97 times.

Except for those who do not share the faith, or are not allied to Islam.

“Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.” Quran 48:29

''To deny God’s own revelation, grudging that He should reveal His bounty to whom He chooses from among His servants! They have incurred God’s most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits the unbelievers.” Quran 2:89-2:90

“Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another…” Quran 5:51

Evidently you have no interest in understanding the Qur'an. That's fine. It's your right. I could go through again and show you what those texts mean within context, but I really am tired of wasting my time.

I can say exactly the same thing about you, only I happen to be right.

I can understand your position, your desire for the security of a merciful god, Allah in this instance, does not allow you to acknowledge what it clear to most objective readers: that the verses I quoted, including a large part of the Quran do represent an actual caring, merciful god but the aims of the founder of Islam, Muhammad and his followers.


“Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.” Quran 48:29

“Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed with rods of iron.''

In all honesty, can you really claim that this this is the inspired work of a Cosmic Being capable of creating a Universe, yet displaying all the qualities of an early middle ages despot? Not a chance, sorry.

Just no that everything you quoted is again taken way out of context.

Context changes nothing in terms of morality or mercy...regardless of how many times you repeat the assertion.

You want context? Here's an overview:

“About sixty-one percent of the contents of the Koran are found to speak ill of the unbelievers or call for their violent conquest; at best only 2.6 percent of the verses of the Koran are noted to show goodwill toward humanity. About seventy-five percent of Muhammad’s biography (Sira) consists of jihad waged on unbelievers.”

–Dr. Moorthy Muthuswamy
As far as your heart being hardened; yes all is of GOD, but to condemn yourself is not his will. You may be atheist for the majority of your life, all of it, or not for much longer. All is of GOD, and you are free.

I sincerely hope that you find whatever it is you are searching for. Your conscience will lead you to the truth.

I'm not searching for anything. Just pointing out fallacies as described and quoted. The meaning is quite clear.

Kaffir is an Arabic term for a nonbeliever or “infidel - ''a highly derogatory Arabic term used to refer to non-Muslims, though it is usually directed less against “People of the Book” (Christians and Jews) and more against others (Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoists, etc).''

“Against kuffars make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war to strike terror into the (hearts of) the Enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside, whom you may not know, but whom Allah does know. Whatever you shall spend in the Cause of Allah, shall be repaid to you, and you shall not be treated unjustly.” (Qur’an: 8:60)

Again, this is clearly a reflection of the aim and purpose of Muhammad and his followers, and nothing whatsoever to do with a merciful god.

I've read and do read the Qur'an without bias, and without any preconceptions. I don't need someone else's opinion on what is clear for me to comprehend.

I can cherry pick and twist any partial quote to people that don't know better and they may believe me. But I don't. Your not doing to change my understanding of the Qur'an with your lack there of, no matter what opinions you assert, or who's opinions they initially where.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Am I to understand that your reply can be rewritten as:

"the scripture DOES NOT SAY THAT at all and I will not be manipulated into a discussion with what is simply not there"

OR

"I have chosen to ignore that part, and upon ignoring it, all that remains describes a merciful and good creator-god".

I'm just not sure what you mean.

 

[popsthebuilder]

You should act a particular way and strive to do all because you know in your heart (selfless conscience) that it is the right thing to do. Not because of any reward in this material plane, or whatever you think may or may not lie after it.

With this, I can wholeheartedly agree.

I find that one cannot do this with religion driving their actions and words, at least not those that have been written down and called the 'Abrahamic religions', which only lead you away from 'good conscious'.

For some reason your findings are off.

Have you researched the Bahia? What about the Druze? Also, do you read core scripture, or base your findings off of the actions of those claiming to be followers of Abrahamic Faith?

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[DrZoidberg]

With this, I can wholeheartedly agree.

I find that one cannot do this with religion driving their actions and words, at least not those that have been written down and called the 'Abrahamic religions', which only lead you away from 'good conscious'.

For some reason your findings are off.

Have you researched the Bahia? What about the Druze? Also, do you read core scripture, or base your findings off of the actions of those claiming to be followers of Abrahamic Faith?

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

How isn't selection of "core scripture" just an application of the No True Scotsman fallacy?

I honestly don't understand how fucked up in the head a religious person needs to be not to see that all religions are just as valid and base their justifications on the exact same thing. Whatever their argument for their particular faith is they all need to be humble about it and accept the arbitrariness of choice of faith. Or I'm going to laugh them right in the face and they deserve it.

 

[popsthebuilder]

It doesn't matter how many times you tell me, you were wrong the first time an wrong every time every time after that.

I even pointed out that it doesn't matter who it refers to, the attitude is not one of mercy or tolerance.

Plus, Many atheists do know what the Quran and the bible say about 'God's will, yet reject this on the basis of no evidence for the existence of this or that God.

Even worse, some of the verses specify that disbelief is worse than killing- hence killing an disbeliever is the lesser of two 'evils'

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

Furthermore, other verses specify that it is Allah who seals the hearts and ears of unbelievers:
“This Book is not to be doubted…. As for the unbelievers, it is the same whether or not you forewarn them; they will not have faith. God has set a seal upon their hearts and ears; their sight is dimmed and grievous punishment awaits them.” Quran 2:1/2:6-2:10

Consequently the blame for disbelief lies at the feet of Allah, who hardens the hearts and minds of unbelievers (in the biblical tradition) and then punishes them for their 'transgression'

Where is this mercy?

Read the book without your own Islam hates me glasses on, because regardless of how the people may or at not act, the Qur'an is clear on what that word means and it's clear about mercy among men and th mercy of GOD.
Not to be confused with blind tolerance regardless of actions. Non believer in the Qur'an is equivalent to those who knowingly blaspheme. It is the unforgiven sin. Stop acting like it refers to you, the ignorant, it a getting old, and was already played out.

Peace

It's nothing to do with what I think or what I believe - a non existent god cannot hate me - but what the Quran actually says about unbelievers and the attitude that the Quran displays against unbelievers regardless of apostates or polytheists, or unbelievers in general ( Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing)... ....which cannot be rationalized away.

Oh yeah, mercy is supported in the Qur'an at least 201 times.
Peace is supported no less than 97 times.

Except for those who do not share the faith, or are not allied to Islam.

“Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.” Quran 48:29

''To deny God’s own revelation, grudging that He should reveal His bounty to whom He chooses from among His servants! They have incurred God’s most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits the unbelievers.” Quran 2:89-2:90

“Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another…” Quran 5:51

Evidently you have no interest in understanding the Qur'an. That's fine. It's your right. I could go through again and show you what those texts mean within context, but I really am tired of wasting my time.

I can say exactly the same thing about you, only I happen to be right.

I can understand your position, your desire for the security of a merciful god, Allah in this instance, does not allow you to acknowledge what it clear to most objective readers: that the verses I quoted, including a large part of the Quran do represent an actual caring, merciful god but the aims of the founder of Islam, Muhammad and his followers.


“Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.” Quran 48:29

“Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed with rods of iron.''

In all honesty, can you really claim that this this is the inspired work of a Cosmic Being capable of creating a Universe, yet displaying all the qualities of an early middle ages despot? Not a chance, sorry.

Just no that everything you quoted is again taken way out of context.

Context changes nothing in terms of morality or mercy...regardless of how many times you repeat the assertion.

You want context? Here's an overview:

“About sixty-one percent of the contents of the Koran are found to speak ill of the unbelievers or call for their violent conquest; at best only 2.6 percent of the verses of the Koran are noted to show goodwill toward humanity. About seventy-five percent of Muhammad’s biography (Sira) consists of jihad waged on unbelievers.”

–Dr. Moorthy Muthuswamy
As far as your heart being hardened; yes all is of GOD, but to condemn yourself is not his will. You may be atheist for the majority of your life, all of it, or not for much longer. All is of GOD, and you are free.

I sincerely hope that you find whatever it is you are searching for. Your conscience will lead you to the truth.

I'm not searching for anything. Just pointing out fallacies as described and quoted. The meaning is quite clear.

Kaffir is an Arabic term for a nonbeliever or “infidel - ''a highly derogatory Arabic term used to refer to non-Muslims, though it is usually directed less against “People of the Book” (Christians and Jews) and more against others (Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoists, etc).''

“Against kuffars make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war to strike terror into the (hearts of) the Enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside, whom you may not know, but whom Allah does know. Whatever you shall spend in the Cause of Allah, shall be repaid to you, and you shall not be treated unjustly.” (Qur’an: 8:60)

Again, this is clearly a reflection of the aim and purpose of Muhammad and his followers, and nothing whatsoever to do with a merciful god.

I've read and do read the Qur'an without bias, and without any preconceptions. I don't need someone else's opinion on what is clear for me to comprehend.

I can cherry pick and twist any partial quote to people that don't know better and they may believe me. But I don't. Your not doing to change my understanding of the Qur'an with your lack there of, no matter what opinions you assert, or who's opinions they initially where.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Am I to understand that your reply can be rewritten as:

"the scripture DOES NOT SAY THAT at all and I will not be manipulated into a discussion with what is simply not there"

OR

"I have chosen to ignore that part, and upon ignoring it, all that remains describes a merciful and good creator-god".

I'm just not sure what you mean.

Obviously the first.

What I was trying to say is that, taken out of context; one can make something sound as if it is wholly different from what it is actually trying to convey.

I honestly do not ignore any thing from any core scripture that wasn't added at a later date. But I refuse to rely on the interpretations of other biased men or women. My reading comprehension is capable of understanding scripture easily. All abrahamic faiths teach the same thing. Believe it or not; so does the Bhagavad Gita.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[popsthebuilder]

For some reason your findings are off.

Have you researched the Bahia? What about the Druze? Also, do you read core scripture, or base your findings off of the actions of those claiming to be followers of Abrahamic Faith?

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

How isn't selection of "core scripture" just an application of the No True Scotsman fallacy?

I honestly don't understand how fucked up in the head a religious person needs to be not to see that all religions are just as valid and base their justifications on the exact same thing. Whatever their argument for their particular faith is they all need to be humble about it and accept the arbitrariness of choice of faith. Or I'm going to laugh them right in the face and they deserve it.

Friend, you seem to think that I am a divisive Christian or Muslim or something, preaching division and prejudice.

Know that I am not.

My findings are that there is ultimately One Creator GOD, and that man has assigned different names to it based on divided cultures, time, and greed.

Only an arrogant fool would claim that GOD is that of division, war, and hate mongering. All scripture, regardless of if it is abrahamic or not speaks of separation from want of material objects, equality, peace, defending the needy, standing for what is right, and the selfless conscience. Known of as the Krishna consciousness, godhead, God helm, and other terms.

I can understand how one's perceptions of "religious" people can leave then with a negative opinion about religion in general, but that is the work of man, and every man is capable of wrong.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[popsthebuilder]

By core scripture, I mean the writings that religion x bases all other writings or doctrines from. Like I read the Qur'an but no other Islamic writings, or I read the bible, but not the watch tower. I read the Gita and the writings of the bab but do not venture from them into writings derived from them.

Hope that helps.

I've heard the no true Scotsman thing before. Not sure it applies though as I am a firm believer in universal reconsiliation.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[DrZoidberg]

My findings are that there is ultimately One Creator GOD, and that man has assigned different names to it based on divided cultures, time, and greed.

But you still don't know you're correct. Unless you have a humble attitude towards God/gods/no gods you're just a narcissist full of yourself. That's what I'm trying to say. For all we know it was the ancient Norse Vikings who were right all along, and the rest of us are wrong. Thor did slay the Ice Giants and I can't see any Ice Giants anywhere.

Only an arrogant fool would claim that GOD is that of division, war, and hate mongering.

I'd go further. Only an arrogant fool thinks we can learn anything of the nature of God by studying holy texts. Only an arrogant fool would ever speculate on the nature of God. If God exists (as a real physical thing acting in the world) then... perhaps.... maybe... God is beyond out comprehension? And we can stop all speculation now.

All scripture, regardless of if it is abrahamic or not speaks of separation from want of material objects, equality, peace, defending the needy, standing for what is right, and the selfless conscience. Known of as the Krishna consciousness, godhead, God helm, and other terms.

Yeah, but all scripture has also been written by humans. These aren't the words of God.

I can understand how one's perceptions of "religious" people can leave then with a negative opinion about religion in general, but that is the work of man, and every man is capable of wrong.

I've met plenty of great religious people* Lots of them are humble. And focus their religious work inward. They don't presume anything about God and accept that maybe... perhaps... God, (in all scripture) was nothing but a metaphor all along. Just like there are plenty of atheists who also don't presume lots of stuff about religious people, and adopt a humble attitude. I despise any close minded fanatic, no matter what flag they're flying.

* but probably less than non-Swedes. We have almost no religious people in these parts. 100% of Swedes in urban areas (where I live) are in practice atheists. Or more precisely, apatheists.

 

[popsthebuilder]

But you still don't know you're correct. Unless you have a humble attitude towards God/gods/no gods you're just a narcissist full of yourself. That's what I'm trying to say. For all we know it was the ancient Norse Vikings who were right all along, and the rest of us are wrong. Thor did slay the Ice Giants and I can't see any Ice Giants anywhere.

Only an arrogant fool would claim that GOD is that of division, war, and hate mongering.

I'd go further. Only an arrogant fool thinks we can learn anything of the nature of God by studying holy texts. Only an arrogant fool would ever speculate on the nature of God. If God exists (as a real physical thing acting in the world) then... perhaps.... maybe... God is beyond out comprehension? And we can stop all speculation now.

All scripture, regardless of if it is abrahamic or not speaks of separation from want of material objects, equality, peace, defending the needy, standing for what is right, and the selfless conscience. Known of as the Krishna consciousness, godhead, God helm, and other terms.

Yeah, but all scripture has also been written by humans. These aren't the words of God.

I can understand how one's perceptions of "religious" people can leave then with a negative opinion about religion in general, but that is the work of man, and every man is capable of wrong.

I've met plenty of great religious people* Lots of them are humble. And focus their religious work inward. They don't presume anything about God and accept that maybe... perhaps... God, (in all scripture) was nothing but a metaphor all along. Just like there are plenty of atheists who also don't presume lots of stuff about religious people, and adopt a humble attitude. I despise any close minded fanatic, no matter what flag they're flying.

* but probably less than non-Swedes. We have almost no religious people in these parts. 100% of Swedes in urban areas (where I live) are in practice atheists. Or more precisely, apatheists.

I have a very humble attitude towards all generally. I actively strive for such. Any assumption is just that, and not what I speak of. I believe there is a creative force responsible for existence as we know it. I was atheist for over twenty years and actually hold atheist with a higher regard than many as they have found, at least to some extent, how to break free from the force feedings of man, and some are capable of thought with little bias. Never said any scripture was written by GOD literally. They are inspired by such though.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[DrZoidberg]

By core scripture, I mean the writings that religion x bases all other writings or doctrines from. Like I read the Qur'an but no other Islamic writings, or I read the bible, but not the watch tower. I read the Gita and the writings of the bab but do not venture from them into writings derived from them.

Hope that helps.

I've heard the no true Scotsman thing before. Not sure it applies though as I am a firm believer in universal reconsiliation.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Sounds pretty arbitrary to me. Why bother with either the Bible or Quran. They're just companion piece to the Torah. And why stop there? Abrahamic religious texts and doctrine is a reworking of the Enuma Elish. As far as I can tell the Enuma Elish is way more core than any Abrahamic text (using your definition).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enûma_Eliš

As far as I can tell your guide to which texts are core is just whatever religion has won the popularity context. I'm sorry, but popularity is rarely a good guide of what is true. You don't need to read much science for that to become apparent.

 

[popsthebuilder]

By core scripture, I mean the writings that religion x bases all other writings or doctrines from. Like I read the Qur'an but no other Islamic writings, or I read the bible, but not the watch tower. I read the Gita and the writings of the bab but do not venture from them into writings derived from them.

Hope that helps.

I've heard the no true Scotsman thing before. Not sure it applies though as I am a firm believer in universal reconsiliation.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Sounds pretty arbitrary to me. Why bother with either the Bible or Quran. They're just companion piece to the Torah. And why stop there? Abrahamic religious texts and doctrine is a reworking of the Enuma Elish. As far as I can tell the Enuma Elish is way more core than any Abrahamic text (using your definition).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enûma_Eliš

As far as I can tell your guide to which texts are core is just whatever religion has won the popularity context. I'm sorry, but popularity is rarely a good guide of what is true. You don't need to read much science for that to become apparent.

Popularity? Really?

Popularity has nothing to do with it at all. How popular is Zoroastrianism? What about Jainism?

I converse with a broad spectrum of people, none of which care for my opinions or insight too much. Let's just say I'm not popular, and couldn't care less. Further, my own Faith has absolutely nothing to do with any other individual, or their opinion of it.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[popsthebuilder]

By core scripture, I mean the writings that religion x bases all other writings or doctrines from. Like I read the Qur'an but no other Islamic writings, or I read the bible, but not the watch tower. I read the Gita and the writings of the bab but do not venture from them into writings derived from them.

Hope that helps.

I've heard the no true Scotsman thing before. Not sure it applies though as I am a firm believer in universal reconsiliation.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Sounds pretty arbitrary to me. Why bother with either the Bible or Quran. They're just companion piece to the Torah. And why stop there? Abrahamic religious texts and doctrine is a reworking of the Enuma Elish. As far as I can tell the Enuma Elish is way more core than any Abrahamic text (using your definition).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enûma_Eliš

As far as I can tell your guide to which texts are core is just whatever religion has won the popularity context. I'm sorry, but popularity is rarely a good guide of what is true. You don't need to read much science for that to become apparent.

Could you describe the scripture you referenced?

I may very well look into it.

It is my understanding that Hinduism is the oldest functioning Faith.

Thanks

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.