Scientists Find Hints for the Immortality of the Soul

[West]

Some international physicists are convinced, that our spirit has a quantum state and that the dualism between the body and the soul is just as real as the "wave-particle dualism" of the smallest particles.

The link to the full article is here.

 

[barbos]

Wrong section?
Pseudoscience maybe?

 

[West]

Wrong section?
Pseudoscience maybe?

Maybe, maybe not, but its coming from respectable physicists.

 

[dystopian]

Where to even begin...

It's pretty much impossible to take this article seriously when its author literally begins with a generic ghost story treated without even the slightest hint of skepticism. Indeed, why would he be skeptical at all, since in his own words, the person telling the story (which is one we've seen in bad horror movies a thousand times) was "absolutely trustworthy".

 

[West]

Where to even begin...

It's pretty much impossible to take this article seriously when its author literally begins with a generic ghost story treated without even the slightest hint of skepticism. Indeed, why would he be skeptical at all, since in his own words, the person telling the story (which is one we've seen in bad horror movies a thousand times) was "absolutely trustworthy".

I agree, I'd ignore the articles first 2 paragraphs about the ghost story. The rest of it is worthwhile though and comes from different sources.

 

[dystopian]

Wrong section?
Pseudoscience maybe?

Maybe, maybe not, but its coming from respectable physicists.

*Dead* physicists. The article is written as if these people are still alive, and currently researching this very matter. They're not. They weren't even researching it back when they were alive. Honestly, if you're going to write an article like this, it *is* smart to include only quotemined quotes from *dead* people, or people you know to be absolutely in your camp. Less chance of getting in trouble when people get pissed that you misrepresented their views and statements.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I never realized the quantum state was something "spiritual." Learn something everyday.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Ghosts and hauntings, even in the ghost story here, are traditionally related to strong emotions. Suicide, murder, traumatic death, tax forms, gross injustice, anger. The old lady that haunted my home growing up died over a long period of painful cancer and left a bitter ghost.

And even by the most generous accounts, they don't seem to last more than 400 years.

If paranormal events are evidence for immortal souls, wouldn't they include a lot more people that just nodded off after Thanksgiving dinner or died peacefully, with no regrets? OR wouldn't we have a lot of ghosts running around speaking Latin or Etruscan or cave-man?

It'd be easier to see this 'evidence' as showing that something, maybe at a quantum level, records our emotions and holds them for a while, perceived by others as under certain conditions. calling this evidence for souls and their immortality is defintely better as pseudoscience.

 

[dystopian]

OR wouldn't we have a lot of ghosts running around speaking Latin or Etruscan or cave-man?

Shhh! Don't give the EVP people more fuel for their auditory pareidolia.

"Man, I can't make ANY sense of this recording. Usually I can interpret the noises to be a voice telling us something, but maybe this time it really IS just random static."

"No! Don't be so quick to give up, maybe the ghost is just speaking a dead language and that's why you can't interpret it!"

 

[Keith&Co.]

OR wouldn't we have a lot of ghosts running around speaking Latin or Etruscan or cave-man?

Shhh! Don't give the EVP people more fuel for their auditory pareidolia.

"Man, I can't make ANY sense of this recording. Usually I can interpret the noises to be a voice telling us something, but maybe this time it really IS just random static."

"No! Don't be so quick to give up, maybe the ghost is just speaking a dead language and that's why you can't interpret it!"

Wouldn't that be ideal, though?
The Ghost Hunter episode is four minutes of picking up 'noise' and half an hour of trying to find a lingual expert willing to say 'Yep. That's ancient ancient ANCIENT Thracian...'

 

[Peez]

As a 'rule of thumb', if someone tries to prop up some idea with a reference to quantum physics, the idea may be safely rejected. The obvious exception is ideas that are presented in peer-reviewed journals of physics, with an actual connection to quantum physics. In any event I saw nothing in that article that suggests that I should not apply this 'rule of thumb'.

Peez

 

[untermensche]

This is a hypothesis.

Now all they need is evidence to support it.

Evidence that could be replicated.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

No links to the studies.

 

[West]

The physicists state in the article that having studied the field they have reached their views, out of necessity.

Dark matter, dark energy and multiple universes are all hypotheses and lacking in evidence. They are however also put forward out of necessity.

Who can provide evidence and replication for these?

The only reason to dismiss these views is if you know something they don't. If you do lets hear it.

 

[PyramidHead]

The physicists state in the article that having studied the field they have reached their views, out of necessity.

Dark matter, dark energy and multiple universes are all hypotheses and lacking in evidence. They are however also put forward out of necessity.

Who can provide evidence and replication for these?

The only reason to dismiss these views is if you know something they don't. If you do lets hear it.

I know that peer review matters, and people who think souls have anything to do with quantum mechanics don't.

 

[Peez]

The physicists state in the article that having studied the field they have reached their views, out of necessity.

Dark matter, dark energy and multiple universes are all hypotheses and lacking in evidence. They are however also put forward out of necessity.

Who can provide evidence and replication for these?

The only reason to dismiss these views is if you know something they don't. If you do lets hear it.

The physicists in the article can state what they like, without empirical evidence there is no reason to accept their statement. You are making a classical Argument From Authority, followed by irrelevant comparisons to other hypotheses, followed by an attempt to shift the burden of evidence. I personally see no reason to give these statements serious consideration, but if you can provide a reason then I might reconsider my position. Meanwhile my 'rule of thumb' seems appropriate.

Peez

 

[West]

Peez

Its nothing to do with an argument from authority. I'm saying I just don't dismiss their views like you do.

It seems clear that materialism (meaning philosophical materialism) is your religion and you dismiss anything outside of that. That is your right, as it is the right of creationists but it puts you in the same camp as them. It is also the opposite of free thought.

A physicist has said that it is necessary that consciousness has a quantum state. I am not saying he is right or wrong but you are without being able to provide evidence of what is wrong.

 

[RavenSky]

What we consider the here and now, this world, it is actually just the material level that is comprehensible. The beyond is an infinite reality that is much bigger. Which this world is rooted in. In this way, our lives in this plane of existence are encompassed, surrounded, by the afterworld already. When planning I imagine that I have written my existence in this world on a sort of hard drive on the tangible (the brain), that I have also transferred this data onto the spiritual quantum field, then I could say that when I die, I do not lose this information, this consciousness. The body dies but the spiritual quantum field continues. In this way, I am immortal."

I plugged parts and all of the above alleged quote (per the HuffPo article) into google. I find it repeated on multiple woo-websites and multiple sites quoting the HuffPo piece, but no original source.

I haven't bothered to attempt to check any of the other quotes. Instead I ask West to provide the original source of the above quote so that I can read it in context for myself. Thank you.

 

[bilby]

Peez

Its nothing to do with an argument from authority. I'm saying I just don't dismiss their views like you do.

It seems clear that materialism (meaning philosophical materialism) is your religion and you dismiss anything outside of that. That is your right, as it is the right of creationists but it puts you in the same camp as them. It is also the opposite of free thought.

A physicist has said that it is necessary that consciousness has a quantum state. I am not saying he is right or wrong but you are without being able to provide evidence of what is wrong.

Dismissing un-evidenced assertions is one of the foundations of rationalism, and is in no way opposed to free thought.

A physicist has said that it is necessary that consciousness has a quantum state. Until he (or someone else) indicates what this actually means - and how this helps us to understand something useful - the question of whether he is right or wrong doesn't even arise.

If you are not saying he is right or wrong, then by default, he remains wrong - until someone comes along with evidence that he is right. If you are not saying he is right or wrong, then what are you saying?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Peez
Its nothing to do with an argument from authority.

but its coming from respectable physicists.

I'm saying I just don't dismiss their views like you do.

We don't dismiss their views.
We are, however, waiting for their evidence....

It seems clear that materialism (meaning philosophical materialism) is your religion and you dismiss anything outside of that.

Can't be a religion. Materialism produces reliable, stable observations.

A physicist has said that it is necessary that consciousness has a quantum state.

I really don't think he said that.
I thought he said that consciousness may exist in the quantum world.
And it's the quantum world which is the realm that is not yet factual, but must exist, of necessity.
Misquoting like that is how rumors get started.