So we’re agreed that the state can’t compel a business to promote a message it disagrees with. Glad that’s settled.
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SCOTUS gay rights case
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Politesse
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I wish to make a point: the plaintiff is not objecting to any particular message she was asked to write. She is suing her state for passing a law that forbids discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. In other words, the right she is suing for is very specifically the right to discriminate, not the right to exercise freedom over the content of her artwork. Her clients are only theoretical; she wants the right to forbid any business to gays altogether.
So all these hypotheticals should be likewise addressing discrimination against whole classes of people. Can a public business refuse to serve Germans on the sole basis of their apparent race? No actually, they cannot legally do so. Neither can this entrepreneur discriminate against gays as a class under her state's law, so she is suing on the basis that her freedom of speech renders adherence to state law moot. It should not, but this Court will rule that it does. The only.question, and it is a worrying question, is whether they will keep the ruling customarily minimal in scope, or as is worryingly likely, take the opportunity to write an opinion so broad in scope as to open the door for the case that will take down Obergefell v Hodges on similar grounds of free speech obviating the right of states to define their own policies on discrimination.
I will never understand why any atheist conservative would want to live under a Christian theocracy. Are you guys genuinely too stupid to realize they'll be coming for you next, once the sexual deviants are all in jail? Fascist states cannot have a true end point or concrete goal, their political power is contingent on constantly identifying new targets for persecution, and they will do so until they finally go too far and are overthrown.
So all these hypotheticals should be likewise addressing discrimination against whole classes of people. Can a public business refuse to serve Germans on the sole basis of their apparent race? No actually, they cannot legally do so. Neither can this entrepreneur discriminate against gays as a class under her state's law, so she is suing on the basis that her freedom of speech renders adherence to state law moot. It should not, but this Court will rule that it does. The only.question, and it is a worrying question, is whether they will keep the ruling customarily minimal in scope, or as is worryingly likely, take the opportunity to write an opinion so broad in scope as to open the door for the case that will take down Obergefell v Hodges on similar grounds of free speech obviating the right of states to define their own policies on discrimination.
I will never understand why any atheist conservative would want to live under a Christian theocracy. Are you guys genuinely too stupid to realize they'll be coming for you next, once the sexual deviants are all in jail? Fascist states cannot have a true end point or concrete goal, their political power is contingent on constantly identifying new targets for persecution, and they will do so until they finally go too far and are overthrown.
laughing dog
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Richmond Va is not subject to Colorado law. If Va had a similar law as Colorado, you'd have a point. Since Va does not, you don't.
Wow. So VA government is not bound by the 1st Amendment to the Federal Constitution? I missed that news.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Chritians don't seem to realize the potential for unintended consequences.
www.cbsnews.com
Restaurant denies Christian group service over its anti-abortion and LGBTQ stances
Metzger's defended the move, saying "all of our staff are people with rights who deserve dignity."
www.cbsnews.com
crazyfingers
Supermagnon
That story is also posted above
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Like oh my god!!! Like I am like sooo sorry.
laughing dog
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You are babbling.
My take on it--does it involve creativity or simply application of skill?
Once you cross into the realm of creativity I believe someone can say that their feelings about the issue will compromise their ability to do the job well and thus they do not want to do it.
Once you cross into the realm of creativity I believe someone can say that their feelings about the issue will compromise their ability to do the job well and thus they do not want to do it.
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QFT
Calm down.
I don't want a gay wedding cake from a baker who doesn't believe in gay weddings. I don't want a wedding cake from somebody who does not respect same-sex unions when that wedding cake is for a same-sex union. To use the power of the State to force him to bake it or lose his business is nasty, vindictive, and wrong.
There are businesses who specialise solely in same-sex union celebrations, and the progressives want to give money to the bigots. It beggars belief.
Politesse
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The decision the Supreme Court makes will not be about the specific business in question. It will be about the relationship between the enumerated but poorly defined right to free speech, and how it is balanced against the unenumerated but democratically critical right to equal treatment under the law regardless of sex. It will almost certainly be a ruling broad, not narrow, in scope.
They made the case about wedding websites (not cakes, what year are you in?) exactly so it would get this reaction. But if they strike down the legislation, that effects every single business in the state, and every single gay person. It won't matter that some conservative gay Coloradan is gaping there like an idiot going "but I thought the law only applied to websites?", it will apply to any kind of business or services offered within the state.
No one forced anyone to lose their business, nor is there any provision in the law that could, let alone would, make that happen. This woman is suing the government, not the other way around. Nor are any progressives ordering website designs from this person, she's just angry that they might (I wasn't aware getting married was a right only progressives have, either, but if so, that to me is a strong argument for progressivism).
You people always say "calm down, they wouldn't go there" before they go there, then switch to "how could anyone have known that would happen" once they have. Word to the wise, it does not take a genius to see that if you legalize discrimination based on sex, that discrimination based on sex is almost certain to then occur.
Getting married is not a right only progressives have. Forcing compelled speech from others that cater to specific kinds of marriages under threat of State force is something only leftist progressives endorse.
The State already allows multiple kinds of discrimination based on sex. Are there no women's only gyms in America?
Jimmy Higgins
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Touche, gays (not all are progressive) couldn't legally marry at all in the US 20 years ago.
Indeed, but baking a cake, making website, taking photographs isn't speech.
You, and all the others that want to enshrine the right to discrimination, have yet to say just how far a gay couple has to drive to gain access to a service until their civil rights are being unfairly infringed. Probably because you seem to be fine with blacking out access to privileges altogether. I mean, you aren't against gays or gay rights, you just seem to think that gays in America don't need to have access to rights and privileges over things like marriage, or any other thing you want to mistakenly call "political".
You are conflating women only gyms with bakeries... because heterosexual couples need to feel safer in a gay free bakery?
Jimmy Higgins
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The issue here is the word "promote"... and "message". You, and others, are equating their business as promotion. Like gas stations promote foreign automobile car manufacturers because they allow me to buy gas there.
A wedding cake baker were no more promoting weddings between heterosexual couples than they are between gay couples. Before gay marriage was legalized, were wedding cake bakers promoting a policy of being anti-gay marriage because they weren't baking cakes for state recognized weddings between gay couples? No.
The baker is not a real Christian anyway. You've all been duped. A real Christian is here to serve sinners as a representative of Christ by loving sinners and showing them the way to salvation. Turning people away because of their sin is not Christ like.
This self serving baker is better described as a modern day Pharisee than a Christian. If Jesus ate with sinners to reach them then a baker should bake for sinners to reach them.
This self serving baker is better described as a modern day Pharisee than a Christian. If Jesus ate with sinners to reach them then a baker should bake for sinners to reach them.
Politesse
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Not mention, you know, pressing a lawsuit at all. But such "Christians" always turn curiously illiterate when the Bible suggests being too decent a person, and their hypocrisies do not cause them to lose any sleep.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Jesus apparently did not have a job. Preaching and raising the dead is a full time occupation. He was probably hungry and mooching a free meal.
Jesus, the original Hippie.
Jesus, the original Hippie.
Jimmy Higgins
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Curious... do you commonly inquire about the political leanings of all the people you do business with?
*at grocery store*
bilby: Metaphor, why are you waiting in that long line, there is no one at aisle 8.
Metaphor: That cashier is against gay marriage.
bilby: Really, didn't know. What about aisle 4, just one person in line there.
Metaphor: Against the flat tax.
bilby: How do you know this stuff? Someone just opened up at 2.
Metaphor: Her? She believes in anthropomorphic climate change.
bilby: ... Why do you have 100 boxes of corn meal?
Metaphor: Well, this could take a while, but long story short, the CEOs, laborers, receptionist or the like at most of the companies that sell the products here have political stances I don't agree with, so I don't want to be mistaken as expressing support for those causes.
bilby: Really. Has it occurred to you that if you buy their products, that means they are supporting your causes?
Metaphor: *mind blown*
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
For those who say a Christian sole proprietor has to handle a gay wedding.
Should a Jewish catering service be required to cater a Neo Nazi anti Semitic party? In this case catering actually serving at the oarty.
If you have a business like a store or restaurant you are required by laws to serve all.
Does a construction contractor or caterer have a right to refuse offers of work?
Should a Jewish catering service be required to cater a Neo Nazi anti Semitic party? In this case catering actually serving at the oarty.
If you have a business like a store or restaurant you are required by laws to serve all.
Does a construction contractor or caterer have a right to refuse offers of work?