SCOTUS to take the cake

[untermensche]

Religious freedom means you are allowed to have your delusions.

But your right ends when your delusions interfere with the lives of others not causing any harm.

 

[Playball40]

It shouldn't be. Words have meaning.

Are we arguing the principles of the Constitution or the the generally accepted good principles that override Constitutional principles?

The Constitution is one thing.

How it is interpreted is another.

Every interpretation is subjective. None objective.

 

[Playball40]

Does the Big n Tall store need to have clothes for the big n tall? What if the big n tall person was gay? Can they refuse to sell them the clothes?

What exactly is the problem with not permitting people to discriminate based on fantasies?

The guy has some insane delusion he knows how some god feels about gay marriage.

Do we honor this delusion in the law or do we try to educate this ignoramus?

Coming from someone who peddles anarchism?

Every store does not need to cater to every individual going into that store. A big and talk clothing store does not need to have clothes for short people. And other stores don't need to have clothing for Big and Tall people. If it's important to find a cake for a gay wedding somebody will make it for them.

 

[untermensche]

It shouldn't be. Words have meaning.

The Constitution is one thing.

How it is interpreted is another.

Every interpretation is subjective. None objective.

They only have meaning in minds.

Minds change and meanings change with them.

We are not a bunch of sick torturing slave owners anymore.

We do not have the same morality as the people who wrote the Constitution.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Religious freedom means you are allowed to have your delusions.

But your right ends when your delusions interfere with the lives of others not causing any harm.

I agree with that statement, but there isn't a harm in not being to buy something at a store that you want.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Religious freedom means you are allowed to have your delusions.

But your right ends when your delusions interfere with the lives of others not causing any harm.

I agree with that statement, but there isn't a harm in not being to buy something at a store that you want.

What if every bakery in town refused to make a cake for a gay couple's wedding. Would you say there's no harm in not having a cake at your own wedding?

 

[untermensche]

Religious freedom means you are allowed to have your delusions.

But your right ends when your delusions interfere with the lives of others not causing any harm.

I agree with that statement, but there isn't a harm in not being to buy something at a store that you want.

There is no harm in telling blacks they have to find another lunch counter.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I agree with that statement, but there isn't a harm in not being to buy something at a store that you want.

What if every bakery in town refused to make a cake for a gay couple's wedding. Would you say there's no harm in not having a cake at your own wedding?

Is every baker in town going to forgo profits for a religious belief? I can list a lot of products that each town doesn't have. I live in Colorado. Am I harmed that there are no ocean beaches nearby?

 

[coloradoatheist]

I agree with that statement, but there isn't a harm in not being to buy something at a store that you want.

There is no harm in telling blacks they have to find another lunch counter.

And what happened, they protested and Woolworth's gave in. Protest this bakery and don't shop there.

 

[untermensche]

There is no harm in telling blacks they have to find another lunch counter.

And what happened, they protested and Woolworth's gave in. Protest this bakery and don't shop there.

What happened was the 1964 Civil Rights Act that made it illegal.

Not hoping a bunch of racists would care that some shop discriminated against black people.

 

[RavenSky]

If this is about religious liberty then we have to accept that part of religious practice is denying gay people products.

We accept the practice that most churches have rules in place that dictate their faith. For example, the government can't force the Catholic church to have females priests and clergy.

If people feel that strongly about this issue, open a cake store that caters to gays and lesbians.

A bakery is not a church. "Separate but equal" does not work in retail.

 

[RavenSky]

Religious freedom means you are allowed to have your delusions.

But your right ends when your delusions interfere with the lives of others not causing any harm.

I agree with that statement, but there isn't a harm in not being to buy something at a store that you want.

Your argument is fatally flawed (and this was pointed out multiple times in previous threads on this topic)

The "harm" is not from a particular store not carrying a product you may want. The harm is from that store discriminating against you by refusing to sell you a product they DO carry.

The "big and tall" store is not required to carry clothing for short people, but they ARE prohibited from refusing to sell the 'big and tall' clothing they DO carry to a particular customer because said customer is gay or black or female or short or whatever.

Likewise, no baker is required to bake wedding cakes for anyone, but if they DO bake wedding cakes for sale, then they can not discriminate against any particular customer by refusing to bake the wedding cake.

 

[coloradoatheist]

We accept the practice that most churches have rules in place that dictate their faith. For example, the government can't force the Catholic church to have females priests and clergy.

If people feel that strongly about this issue, open a cake store that caters to gays and lesbians.

A bakery is not a church. "Separate but equal" does not work in retail.

Kinda like abortion that isn't guaranteed either but they found an a reach of a right to protect it even though it would fall under the same lack of protection this baker has?

 

[coloradoatheist]

I agree with that statement, but there isn't a harm in not being to buy something at a store that you want.

Your argument is fatally flawed (and this was pointed out multiple times in previous threads on this topic)

The "harm" is not from a particular store not carrying a product you may want. The harm is from that store discriminating against you by refusing to sell you a product they DO carry.

The "big and tall" store is not required to carry clothing for short people, but they ARE prohibited from refusing to sell the 'big and tall' clothing they DO carry to a particular customer because said customer is gay or black or female or short or whatever.

Likewise, no baker is required to bake wedding cakes for anyone, but if they DO bake wedding cakes for sale, then they can not discriminate against any particular customer by refusing to bake the wedding cake.

No I am not, because there is all types of discrimination and there is definitely discrimination against short people and especially the even shorter people. So if it's a harm to be discriminated against, be consistaent and stop all forms of discrimination. But we know we can't or won't.

 

[Playball40]

No we're not, so we added such amendments to the USC. But we cannot just change words to suit our purposes either. If the USC needs changing, we need to change it.

As far as the same or different morality, I cannot say as I was not alive then. I suspect however, culturally things have changed but morality not so much. People would still and are still putting $$$$ over human lives and dignity.

It shouldn't be. Words have meaning.

They only have meaning in minds.

Minds change and meanings change with them.

We are not a bunch of sick torturing slave owners anymore.

We do not have the same morality as the people who wrote the Constitution.

 

[RavenSky]

Your argument is fatally flawed (and this was pointed out multiple times in previous threads on this topic)

The "harm" is not from a particular store not carrying a product you may want. The harm is from that store discriminating against you by refusing to sell you a product they DO carry.

The "big and tall" store is not required to carry clothing for short people, but they ARE prohibited from refusing to sell the 'big and tall' clothing they DO carry to a particular customer because said customer is gay or black or female or short or whatever.

Likewise, no baker is required to bake wedding cakes for anyone, but if they DO bake wedding cakes for sale, then they can not discriminate against any particular customer by refusing to bake the wedding cake.

No I am not, because there is all types of discrimination and there is definitely discrimination against short people and especially the even shorter people. So if it's a harm to be discriminated against, be consistaent and stop all forms of discrimination. But we know we can't or won't.

You don't understand a word I wrote, do you?

The "big and tall" store CAN NOT refuse to sell their "big and tall" clothing to a particular person, no matter how short that person is.

Likewise, a wedding cake baker CAN NOT refuse to sell a wedding cake to a particular person, no matter how gay that person is.

 

[Playball40]

A bakery is not a church. "Separate but equal" does not work in retail.

Kinda like abortion that isn't guaranteed either but they found an a reach of a right to protect it even though it would fall under the same lack of protection this baker has?

What the hell are you talking about? Abortion never should have been 'illegal' in the first place.

 

[coloradoatheist]

No I am not, because there is all types of discrimination and there is definitely discrimination against short people and especially the even shorter people. So if it's a harm to be discriminated against, be consistaent and stop all forms of discrimination. But we know we can't or won't.

You don't understand a word I wrote, do you?

The "big and tall" store CAN NOT refuse to sell their "big and tall" clothing to a particular person, no matter how short that person is.

Likewise, a wedding cake baker CAN NOT refuse to sell a wedding cake to a particular person, no matter how gay that person is.

But they don't have to make a suit for me. I can't go in there and say make me a suit that fits my size. They can refuse that.

 

[blastula]

According to the brief in support of granting cert., the CRA (civil rights commission) issued conflicting rulings.

"In contrast, while this case was still ongoing, the Commission found that three secular bakeries did not discriminate based on creed when they refused a Christian customer’s request for custom cakes that criticized same-sex marriage on religious grounds. App. 293-327a. And it did so despite “creed” under CADA encompassing “all aspects of religious beliefs, observances, and practices ... [including] the beliefs or teachings of a particular religion,” 3 C.C.R. 708- 1:10.2(H) (emphasis added), App. 96a. The Commission reasoned that—like Phillips—(1) the bakeries declined the request because they objected to the particular message of the cake and (2) the bakeries were willing to create other items for Christians. App. 297-331a. Unlike Phillips, the Commission exempted these secular bakeries from CADA’s scope."

Yeah, according to them. But the first case I looked at, where the customer wanted a bible shaped cake with specific verses, the baker agreed to make a bible shaped cake, but would not put the writing on it, but would give the customer icing and a pastry bag so he could write or draw whatever message he wanted.

 

[RavenSky]

You don't understand a word I wrote, do you?

The "big and tall" store CAN NOT refuse to sell their "big and tall" clothing to a particular person, no matter how short that person is.

Likewise, a wedding cake baker CAN NOT refuse to sell a wedding cake to a particular person, no matter how gay that person is.

But they don't have to make a suit for me. I can't go in there and say make me a suit that fits my size. They can refuse that.

You can buy whatever they DO sell, and the gay couple can buy whatever the wedding cake baker DOES sell. The stores can not refuse to sell you or the gay couple what each store does, in fact, have for sale.