Shall we discuss the 2016 Democratic Primary yet again?

[untermensche]

The Democrats have moved right as the Republicans have moved far out to the insane radical right.

The Democrats abandoned the left.

Bill Clinton is to thank for it.

Now coming from the insane right is a bunch of anti-science scare tactics and lies.

And the Democrats have no credibility to stop it.

Because they stopped serving the people and started servicing the rich decades ago.

This post and its 8 responses were off-topic in the thread on Covid-19. I've moved them to their own thread.

 

[Toni]

The Democrats have moved right as the Republicans have moved far out to the insane radical right.

The Democrats abandoned the left.

Bill Clinton is to thank for it.

Now coming from the insane right is a bunch of anti-science scare tactics and lies.

And the Democrats have no credibility to stop it.

Because they stopped serving the people and started servicing the rich decades ago.

I detested Bill but as far as credibility goes—the Dems are swimming in oceans of it compared to the QOP.

 

[untermensche]

The Democrats have moved right as the Republicans have moved far out to the insane radical right.

The Democrats abandoned the left.

Bill Clinton is to thank for it.

Now coming from the insane right is a bunch of anti-science scare tactics and lies.

And the Democrats have no credibility to stop it.

Because they stopped serving the people and started servicing the rich decades ago.

I detested Bill but as far as credibility goes—the Dems are swimming in oceans of it compared to the QOP.

Really?

After robbing Bernie twice and robbing the nation of real progress?

The Democrats have no credibility as a force for good.

Obama saved the huge corporations, not the people.

His healthcare plan was a right-wing corporate give away.

Obama ran on the public option.

 

[Toni]

The Democrats have moved right as the Republicans have moved far out to the insane radical right.

The Democrats abandoned the left.

Bill Clinton is to thank for it.

Now coming from the insane right is a bunch of anti-science scare tactics and lies.

And the Democrats have no credibility to stop it.

Because they stopped serving the people and started servicing the rich decades ago.

I detested Bill but as far as credibility goes—the Dems are swimming in oceans of it compared to the QOP.

Really?

After robbing Bernie twice and robbing the nation of real progress?

The Democrats have no credibility as a force for good.

Obama saved the huge corporations, not the people.

His healthcare plan was a right-wing corporate give away.

Obama ran on the public option.

My apologies. I forgot you were a Bernie Bro and that Bernie, the occasional Democrat, DESERVED TO BE POTUS even though he couldn't muster enough votes to get the nomination from a party he only occasionally belongs to. When he wants their nomination.

 

[untermensche]

Really?

After robbing Bernie twice and robbing the nation of real progress?

The Democrats have no credibility as a force for good.

Obama saved the huge corporations, not the people.

His healthcare plan was a right-wing corporate give away.

Obama ran on the public option.

My apologies. I forgot you were a Bernie Bro and that Bernie, the occasional Democrat, DESERVED TO BE POTUS even though he couldn't muster enough votes to get the nomination from a party he only occasionally belongs to. When he wants their nomination.

When they say "Bernie Bro" you know they are really an establishment corporate supporting Republican.

It was an illegitimate process. Objective observers know this. Back room deal won the nomination for both Hillary and Biden. A corruption of the democratic process both times.

For instance: Bernie won every county in West Virginia but Hillary got every vote at the Convention.

 

[Toni]

Really?

After robbing Bernie twice and robbing the nation of real progress?

The Democrats have no credibility as a force for good.

Obama saved the huge corporations, not the people.

His healthcare plan was a right-wing corporate give away.

Obama ran on the public option.

My apologies. I forgot you were a Bernie Bro and that Bernie, the occasional Democrat, DESERVED TO BE POTUS even though he couldn't muster enough votes to get the nomination from a party he only occasionally belongs to. When he wants their nomination.

When they say "Bernie Bro" you know they are really an establishment corporate supporting Republican.

It was an illegitimate process. Objective observers know this. Back room deal won the nomination for both Hillary and Biden. A corruption of the democratic process both times.

For instance: Bernie won every county in West Virginia but Hillary got every vote at the Convention.

Uh huh.

I will remember to include Bernie’s resounding success in West Virginia to the list of his many, many accomplishments. Wow. Winning the votes of all 3 Democrats in West Virginia. Amazing!

 

[untermensche]

When they say "Bernie Bro" you know they are really an establishment corporate supporting Republican.

It was an illegitimate process. Objective observers know this. Back room deal won the nomination for both Hillary and Biden. A corruption of the democratic process both times.

For instance: Bernie won every county in West Virginia but Hillary got every vote at the Convention.

Uh huh.

I will remember to include Bernie’s resounding success in West Virginia to the list of his many, many accomplishments. Wow. Winning the votes of all 3 Democrats in West Virginia. Amazing!

No.

He won the elections but didn't get the votes at the Convention.

It happened all over.

You don't give a crap that the process was undemocratic. It was corrupt.

 

[Toni]

When they say "Bernie Bro" you know they are really an establishment corporate supporting Republican.

It was an illegitimate process. Objective observers know this. Back room deal won the nomination for both Hillary and Biden. A corruption of the democratic process both times.

For instance: Bernie won every county in West Virginia but Hillary got every vote at the Convention.

Uh huh.

I will remember to include Bernie’s resounding success in West Virginia to the list of his many, many accomplishments. Wow. Winning the votes of all 3 Democrats in West Virginia. Amazing!

No.

He won the elections but didn't get the votes at the Convention.

It happened all over.

You don't give a crap that the process was undemocratic. It was corrupt.

Bernie did win some primaries in 2016, but not enough to win the nomination.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Res...Party_presidential_primaries#Major_candidates

 

[untermensche]

No.

He won the elections but didn't get the votes at the Convention.

It happened all over.

You don't give a crap that the process was undemocratic. It was corrupt.

Bernie did win some primaries in 2016, but not enough to win the nomination.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Res...Party_presidential_primaries#Major_candidates

I fought these fights years ago.

Wikileaks Proves Primary Was Rigged: DNC Undermined Democracy

https://observer.com/2016/07/wikileaks-proves-primary-was-rigged-dnc-undermined-democracy/

 

[Tigers!]

I fought these fights years ago.

Wikileaks Proves Primary Was Rigged: DNC Undermined Democracy

https://observer.com/2016/07/wikileaks-proves-primary-was-rigged-dnc-undermined-democracy/

So you acknowledge that it is not just the republicans who are considered a threat to US democracy?

 

[Rhea]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but…. If Bernie Sanders had a huge following and the progressives are sufficiently numerous to not care what moderates want, why did he run as a democrat? Wouldn’t it have been a no-brainer to build a progressive following and run like Perot as an independent? I mean, if he can win West Virginia in a primary, surely he has enough votes to win the presidency?

 

[zorq]

I fought these fights years ago.

Wikileaks Proves Primary Was Rigged: DNC Undermined Democracy

https://observer.com/2016/07/wikileaks-proves-primary-was-rigged-dnc-undermined-democracy/

So you acknowledge that it is not just the republicans who are considered a threat to US democracy?

You understand that the Democratic Party is as much a part of US democracy as the McDonald's Corp is... right? Neither one is mentioned at all in the US constitution. Backroom shenanigans in the internal structure of McDonald's Corp doesn't affect "US Democray" in the least, and neither does the same behavior in the Democratic Party.

Frankly, it makes sense for an organization to have some procedures and checks to keep outsiders from just walking in and taking over. It is utterly unsurprising that Bernie had pushback from the Dem party since he WAS/IS an outsider.

Should the Democratic Party stand as a paragon of democracy both internally and outwardly? Sure. Is it a threat to US democracy? No, not at all compared to their main rival in the US.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The Democrats have moved right as the Republicans have moved far out to the insane radical right.

The Democrats abandoned the left.

Bill Clinton is to thank for it.

Now coming from the insane right is a bunch of anti-science scare tactics and lies.

And the Democrats have no credibility to stop it.

Because they stopped serving the people and started servicing the rich decades ago.

I detested Bill but as far as credibility goes—the Dems are swimming in oceans of it compared to the QOP.

Really?

After robbing Bernie twice and robbing the nation of real progress?

The Democrats have no credibility as a force for good.

Obama saved the huge corporations, not the people.

His healthcare plan was a right-wing corporate give away.

Obama ran on the public option.

Sorry my friend, but there is no difference from what you are saying above and the crazy Trumpsters. You both want other factors to decide our elections. Both sides are threats to our democracy. Bernie and Trump were not "robbed"; they simply lost.

 

[Toni]

I fought these fights years ago.

Wikileaks Proves Primary Was Rigged: DNC Undermined Democracy

https://observer.com/2016/07/wikileaks-proves-primary-was-rigged-dnc-undermined-democracy/

OMG. Who would have thought that political parties and candidates and potential candidates actually think ahead to the next election well ahead of the next election????????????????????????????????????

What corruption!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or planning ahead to come up with the best strategy and the best candidate to win victory for the party. Which Sanders deigned to join in 2015 and left again in 2016. How dare Democrats not reward such loyalty???!!!!

 

[untermensche]

You don't care the process is corrupt and the Democratic party worked to undermine the democratic process.

Did you have this much apathy when Trump did the same thing in January?

 

[Harry Bosch]

You don't care the process is corrupt and the Democratic party worked to undermine the democratic process.

Did you have this much apathy when Trump did the same thing in January?

I don't like the entire voting process. I think that it should be nationalized. Made standard across the country. Instead, we have a different system for every county in the country. Which is insane in my view. However, this is clear: HRC got 3.7 million more popular votes that Sanders. And HRC won the crazy delegate system in states and counties. Here's the bottom line of me: if you guys and the Trumpsters want a different system: fine with me. But the system should be changed before the election. Is that really hard to ask?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The primaries weren't rigged. The DNC definitely wanted Sanders, not a Democrat, to not win, and pushed to help that happen, but the votes were the votes. Sanders' performance in 2016 was admirable and provided him a seat at the table, which he hadn't had before. Which makes all this whining ridiculous.

 

[Swammerdami]

You don't care the process is corrupt and the Democratic party worked to undermine the democratic process.

Did you have this much apathy when Trump did the same thing in January?

The Democratic Party following its agreed-upon procedures to set rules and then following those rules is "the same thing" as inciting murderous armed thugs to commit treason?

Do you really believe that, or was it exaggeration to help make your point? In the latter case, do you think such exaggerations help your side of this debate?

 

[TomC]

You understand that the Democratic Party is as much a part of US democracy as the McDonald's Corp is... right? Neither one is mentioned at all in the US constitution. Backroom shenanigans in the internal structure of McDonald's Corp doesn't affect "US Democray" in the least, and neither does the same behavior in the Democratic Party.

This is so important!

People commonly have the illusion that the political parties serve the interests of the people. Little could be further from the truth. That's why so many Founding Fathers were against allowing them to form.

McDonald's is similar. It's a private concern who's primary goal is return to investors, not feeding the public. Whether American people eat a healthy diet or not isn't their concern. Their goal is to make money by convincing consumers to buy plasticy crap food.

Political parties are somewhat different, but substitute "donors" for "investors" and "voters" for "consumers" and it's the same thing. Political parties have no more reason to support democratic values than McDonald's has to support locally sourced fruits and vegetables.

The real threat to democracy is mistaking them for branches of the government or something.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

You don't care the process is corrupt and the Democratic party worked to undermine the democratic process.

Did you have this much apathy when Trump did the same thing in January?

The Democratic Party following its agreed-upon procedures to set rules and then following those rules is "the same thing" as inciting murderous armed thugs to commit treason?

Do you really believe that, or was it exaggeration to help make your point? In the latter case, do you think such exaggerations help your side of this debate?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5O9I4XJdSISNzJyaWIxaWpZWnM/view?resourcekey=0-rKKZ2vV3GyUZBAWUDJTGyw

Democracy Lost: A Report on the Fatally Flawed 2016 Democratic Primaries