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Single payer health care questions

Toni

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Please forgive me because some/all of these I know are quite ignorant but I am wondering about how some of the nuts and bolts work for those civilized nations with universal single payer health care:

1. If you are injured in an automobile accident, who pays the doctor bills for your injuries, the health care system or the automobile insurance? Same question: accident in someone's home or on someone else's property? Home owner's insurance or UHC? Injuries at work? What if there is some permanent loss of use of something important: say, you lose your leg or the use of your leg? What if this affects your ability to do your job?

2. What if you or your loved one/child needs some kind of esoteric medical treatment for a rare condition: how is that paid? What if treatment is available but only in a different country?

3. What if you disagree about the treatment plan your regular doctor puts forth? Can you see a different doctor? Get second/third opinions? Who pays?
 
Australia's UHC system, Medicare, covers services listed in the Medicare Benefits Schedule.

1. Medicare pays regardless of the the cause of the injury or illness.

2. If the treatment isn't on the MBS then it isn't covered by Medicare. Overseas providers are not registered with Medicare, therefore Medicare will not pay their bills.

3. Patients have a right to a second opinion, and Medicare covers it. Some states also allow the patient (or patient's guardian) to force a clinical review. (see Ryan's Rule).
 
Australia's UHC system, Medicare, covers services listed in the Medicare Benefits Schedule.

1. Medicare pays regardless of the the cause of the injury or illness.

2. If the treatment isn't on the MBS then it isn't covered by Medicare. Overseas providers are not registered with Medicare, therefore Medicare will not pay their bills.

3. Patients have a right to a second opinion, and Medicare covers it. Some states also allow the patient (or patient's guardian) to force a clinical review. (see Ryan's Rule).

Yea, in Canada I believe it's pretty much the same, but to be honest I've never thought about it much. Usually I just show up and get my problem sorted.

I believe it comes down to whether the procedure is 'medically necessary'. If I need this procedure to survive the healthcare system foots the bill. This excludes stuff like dentistry and non-essential prescriptions on government drug programs.

As for the last question, I have no idea, but I'd assume it works about the same as Australia.
 
Australia's UHC system, Medicare, covers services listed in the Medicare Benefits Schedule.

1. Medicare pays regardless of the the cause of the injury or illness.

2. If the treatment isn't on the MBS then it isn't covered by Medicare. Overseas providers are not registered with Medicare, therefore Medicare will not pay their bills.

3. Patients have a right to a second opinion, and Medicare covers it. Some states also allow the patient (or patient's guardian) to force a clinical review. (see Ryan's Rule).

Yea, in Canada I believe it's pretty much the same, but to be honest I've never thought about it much. Usually I just show up and get my problem sorted.

I believe it comes down to whether the procedure is 'medically necessary'. If I need this procedure to survive the healthcare system foots the bill. This excludes stuff like dentistry and non-essential prescriptions on government drug programs.

As for the last question, I have no idea, but I'd assume it works about the same as Australia.

So dentistry is not covered as an essential health care? That's surprising because it truly is. It may sound like hyperbole but my dentist saved my husband's life by discovering a pre-cancerous growth in his mouth. It would have certainly become cancer--the opinions of highly trained specialists, pathologists, etc. Undetected, it would have claimed his life as surely as oral cancer claimed Roger Ebert's life. Dental problems are also linked to heart disease, etc. Misalignment of teeth can cause severe headaches.

Is mental health coverage included?
 
Yea, in Canada I believe it's pretty much the same, but to be honest I've never thought about it much. Usually I just show up and get my problem sorted.

I believe it comes down to whether the procedure is 'medically necessary'. If I need this procedure to survive the healthcare system foots the bill. This excludes stuff like dentistry and non-essential prescriptions on government drug programs.

As for the last question, I have no idea, but I'd assume it works about the same as Australia.

So dentistry is not covered as an essential health care? That's surprising because it truly is. It may sound like hyperbole but my dentist saved my husband's life by discovering a pre-cancerous growth in his mouth. It would have certainly become cancer--the opinions of highly trained specialists, pathologists, etc. Undetected, it would have claimed his life as surely as oral cancer claimed Roger Ebert's life. Dental problems are also linked to heart disease, etc. Misalignment of teeth can cause severe headaches.

Is mental health coverage included?

I agree. I would assume the fact that covering people's dentistry would produce astronomical costs for the government probably plays a factor in it too. A lot of poor people here just don't go to the dentist. Give everyone a guaranteed checkup once a year and that's roughly 9 billion a year minimum, which isn't small change for Canada. If you're lucky you're a part of a health insurance plan through work that covers dentistry, optometry, other pseudo-necessary specialists, and prescriptions. I pay 30 dollars a month into my dental plan, but it covers everything for my fiance and I which can easily be worth over 1000 dollars a year. I'd think this works similarly as it does in the U.S. except our insurance providers provide what the government health plan doesn't.

Mental Health coverage is included in Canada, but often communities can't adequately meet this need given budgeting and specialist constraints. For instance, in any fair sized city you should be able to find a psychiatrist and free counseling, but live up in Northern Saskatchewan and you might have a bit of a problem (this is actually a big issue in Canada as suicide rates are much higher in our Northern regions).
 
Yea, in Canada I believe it's pretty much the same, but to be honest I've never thought about it much. Usually I just show up and get my problem sorted.

I believe it comes down to whether the procedure is 'medically necessary'. If I need this procedure to survive the healthcare system foots the bill. This excludes stuff like dentistry and non-essential prescriptions on government drug programs.

As for the last question, I have no idea, but I'd assume it works about the same as Australia.

So dentistry is not covered as an essential health care? That's surprising because it truly is. It may sound like hyperbole but my dentist saved my husband's life by discovering a pre-cancerous growth in his mouth. It would have certainly become cancer--the opinions of highly trained specialists, pathologists, etc. Undetected, it would have claimed his life as surely as oral cancer claimed Roger Ebert's life. Dental problems are also linked to heart disease, etc. Misalignment of teeth can cause severe headaches.

Is mental health coverage included?

I'm in the middle of a 5-digit dental "project", all out-of-pocket despite having medicare. It is medically necessary - I could probably get dentures covered if that was an option, but I have several implants that make that problematic. So ... more implants, and every plan I know of considers implants some kind of luxury.
Meanwhile, eyes are getting worse - impeding my work. No help there either. Grrr.
 
Yea, in Canada I believe it's pretty much the same, but to be honest I've never thought about it much. Usually I just show up and get my problem sorted.

I believe it comes down to whether the procedure is 'medically necessary'. If I need this procedure to survive the healthcare system foots the bill. This excludes stuff like dentistry and non-essential prescriptions on government drug programs.

As for the last question, I have no idea, but I'd assume it works about the same as Australia.

So dentistry is not covered as an essential health care? That's surprising because it truly is. It may sound like hyperbole but my dentist saved my husband's life by discovering a pre-cancerous growth in his mouth. It would have certainly become cancer--the opinions of highly trained specialists, pathologists, etc. Undetected, it would have claimed his life as surely as oral cancer claimed Roger Ebert's life. Dental problems are also linked to heart disease, etc. Misalignment of teeth can cause severe headaches.

Is mental health coverage included?

In Canada
1. Medicare covers doctor and hospitalization. Insurance would cover physio, long-term , non-hospital care, assistive devices; also out of hospital medication (except for seniors' medication--covered by Govt. program).
2. This varies, but I believe usually not covered--certainly at least sometimes not covered.
3. basic g ps can be changed; it is harder to get a second opinion from a specialist in the same location without the agreement of your family doctor, who makes the referrals to specialists. However, if you travel to another part of the province ans a condition flares up, you will see a specialist there--this happened to my brother, and the second specialist correctly diagnosed his previous misdiagnosed condition as a rare and by this point nearly terminal cancer.
4. If your doctor diagnoses oral cancer it is covered under medicare. Dentists are not, except, I think, for seniors. Oral surgeons, if you are referred by a dentist are not, at least for some conditions--I don't know about oral cancers.
5. Yes, at least appointments with someone with a medical degree. Medication, outside of a hospital, is not.
6. (extra info) In Ontario, annual eye exams are covered for diabetics, but not non-diabetics.
 
So dentistry is not covered as an essential health care? That's surprising because it truly is. It may sound like hyperbole but my dentist saved my husband's life by discovering a pre-cancerous growth in his mouth. It would have certainly become cancer--the opinions of highly trained specialists, pathologists, etc. Undetected, it would have claimed his life as surely as oral cancer claimed Roger Ebert's life. Dental problems are also linked to heart disease, etc. Misalignment of teeth can cause severe headaches.

Is mental health coverage included?

I agree. I would assume the fact that covering people's dentistry would produce astronomical costs for the government probably plays a factor in it too. A lot of poor people here just don't go to the dentist. Give everyone a guaranteed checkup once a year and that's roughly 9 billion a year minimum, which isn't small change for Canada. If you're lucky you're a part of a health insurance plan through work that covers dentistry, optometry, other pseudo-necessary specialists, and prescriptions. I pay 30 dollars a month into my dental plan, but it covers everything for my fiance and I which can easily be worth over 1000 dollars a year. I'd think this works similarly as it does in the U.S. except our insurance providers provide what the government health plan doesn't.

Mental Health coverage is included in Canada, but often communities can't adequately meet this need given budgeting and specialist constraints. For instance, in any fair sized city you should be able to find a psychiatrist and free counseling, but live up in Northern Saskatchewan and you might have a bit of a problem (this is actually a big issue in Canada as suicide rates are much higher in our Northern regions).

I'm not sure covering dentistry would be so astronomical, actually. Regular cleanings help prevent a lot of more expensive problems. Implants, dentures are expensive, as are crowns. But regular check ups and regular cleanings with an occasional filling isn't too bad.

In my community and actually in the entire corner of my state, mental health care is hard to come by because there aren't enough providers to meet the need. I live in a small city in a pretty rural area. Nearest town of any size is 30 miles away in one direction; 50 miles away in another direction. Neither town is very big and both have shortages of mental health providers. Nearest largish city is 120+ miles away, making medical/mental health care there pretty inaccessible for most people.
 
The UK NHS doesn't charge patients for care at point of access, with a handful of exceptions for non-exempt patients receiving dental and optical care outside an NHS hospital, and a flat charge of £8.60 per prescription for non-exempt patients requiring prescription drugs not administered by an NHS hospital. in general terms, children, the elderly, and the unemployed are exempt from most of these charges. For NHS optical services, the range of spectacle styles and shapes that are offered is small (in my youth, NHS glasses were one style, take it or leave it - if you wanted anything else, you had to pay for it yourself. These days, there are a handful of slightly less dorky options offered).

Most dentists work outside the NHS Dental Hospital system, so for most patients, access to free dental care is very limited; it may involve long wait times, or long distance travel, or both. It is available free of charge though, if you have no other choice. I was fortunate when I had my wisdom teeth extracted that I lived within walking distance of a large NHS dental hospital, and was able to get all of the work done for no out of pocket cost at all.

The NHS is simply not configured to collect money from patients, although it does do this in certain rare situations - for example, when I emigrated to Australia, the Australian Dept of Immigration required that I have a full medical, and as this is not covered by the NHS, I had to pay for a chest X-Ray at the Leeds General Infirmary. The X-Ray was no drama; but finding someone I could pay for the service was a nightmare, as nobody in the entire large (1,100 bed) teaching hospital seemed to know where the payments office was (or even that one existed).

I finally tracked down a tiny office in the sub-basement, where two very bored clerks were happy to have something to do, and took my money in exchange for a docket authorizing the X-Ray department to take the necessary snaps. They estimated that they saw about three or four people a week, almost all of whom were potential emigrants sent by foreign embassies.

I understand that the NHS also recovers some of the costs of treatment for Motor Vehicle Accidents from the insurer of the at fault driver; However this is handled entirely by the NHS and the insurance companies, and typically happens long after any treatment has been completed. The patients are not required to be involved (except to the extent that drivers are usually involved with motor insurance claims), and it has no effect on treatment. This is 20 year old information though, things may have changed since my days as an NHS patient.

In Australia, drivers are required to have Compulsory Third Party insurance (this is included in vehicle registration) which covers any third party medical costs, so Medicare doesn't usually cover those costs. Workplace injuries are typically paid for by the state and territory governments' Workcover schemes, which is funded by employer premiums; Medicare therefore only covers costs not covered by CTP or Workcover. We also have a parallel private health insurance system, and patients with appropriate insurance can choose to be treated as private patients. This system is far from independent of the government, as premiums are subject to government regulation, and citizens get tax incentives to sign up for private cover, to encourage those who can afford to use private insurance to do so, and relieve the burden on the Medicare system. Private care costs are usually only partially funded by the insurer, with the patient needing to pay the 'gap' between the private insurer's rates and the doctor's charges for most procedures. The main benefit of private cover is that wait times are typically lower, and private hospital in-patients usually get a private room.

Both systems seem to work well in my experience; I think the NHS model is superior from the patient perspective, and there is far less paperwork in the UK than in the Australian system - indeed for most NHS patients, there is no paperwork at all.
 
Please forgive me because some/all of these I know are quite ignorant but I am wondering about how some of the nuts and bolts work for those civilized nations with universal single payer health care:

1. If you are injured in an automobile accident, who pays the doctor bills for your injuries, the health care system or the automobile insurance? Same question: accident in someone's home or on someone else's property? Home owner's insurance or UHC? Injuries at work? What if there is some permanent loss of use of something important: say, you lose your leg or the use of your leg? What if this affects your ability to do your job?

In the UK, your medical treatment is covered by the NHS trusts. If you're lucky. If you lose your ability to work, you get state support to some extent otherwise you are on your own.

2. What if you or your loved one/child needs some kind of esoteric medical treatment for a rare condition: how is that paid? What if treatment is available but only in a different country?

UK, you're on your own.

3. What if you disagree about the treatment plan your regular doctor puts forth? Can you see a different doctor? Get second/third opinions? Who pays?

You can get a second opinion but getting an appointment to see a specific doctor can be tricky.

Dentistry, well you've heard the expression "British teeth" right ? Some work is covered but things like retainers etc you have to pay for yourself as this is seen as cosmetic. Similar with eyes, the NHS will pay for corrective vision but if you want nice frames, you're going to pay for that yourself. Prescriptions are quite heavily subsidized but not free.
 
In the UK, your medical treatment is covered by the NHS trusts. If you're lucky. If you lose your ability to work, you get state support to some extent otherwise you are on your own.
WTF? Luck has fuck all to do with it. You are completely covered for your treatment by the NHS. Nobody at any hospital or doctors office knows or cares about your employment status or ability to work; they change nothing.
2. What if you or your loved one/child needs some kind of esoteric medical treatment for a rare condition: how is that paid? What if treatment is available but only in a different country?

UK, you're on your own.
No; in the UK, you get the treatment if the doctors agree that it is medically necessary. If not, you are free to pay for it yourself; or you can buy insurance, and the insurer pays for it if it's covered by your policy.
3. What if you disagree about the treatment plan your regular doctor puts forth? Can you see a different doctor? Get second/third opinions? Who pays?

You can get a second opinion but getting an appointment to see a specific doctor can be tricky.
Yes. Just like everywhere else in the world. If a doctor is fully booked, he won't accept you as a new patient.
Dentistry, well you've heard the expression "British teeth" right ? Some work is covered but things like retainers etc you have to pay for yourself as this is seen as cosmetic. Similar with eyes, the NHS will pay for corrective vision but if you want nice frames, you're going to pay for that yourself. Prescriptions are quite heavily subsidized but not free.
Cosmetic work is only paid for by the NHS if it's absence causes suffering. Dental work can be had free of charge, but only at NHS dental hospitals. (I had my wisdom teeth removed free of charge at an NHS dental hospital).

Prescriptions cost £8.60 per item, no matter how much the drugs cost the NHS - a £10 packet of antibiotics and a £10,000 packet of oncology treatment cost outpatients without exemptions the same £8.60, and the NHS pays the rest. In-patients and the exempt (children, pensioners and the unemployed) pay nothing.
 
Can you give me some examples of what might not be considered medically necessary?

Would breast reconstruction after breast cancer be considered medically necessary?


If you were say, a 55 year old man and received a diagnosis of prostate cancer, would you have treatment options? I mean, would you be able to weigh the pros and cons and select the option you felt best (under doctor's advice, of course)?

Is viagra/cialis considered medically necessary? Is post menopausal HRT considered medically necessary?


If you had an amputation of a limb, would a prosthesis be considered medically necessary?



I'm sorry, I'm just weighing the pluses and minuses compared with the coverage that my husband and I have, which is very excellent. We haven't always had such good coverage and for a time, actually had no coverage at all. We've also been in the circumstance when an employer changed the insurance offerings made available to the employee in such a way that we had to change physicians, which was not good as we were very attached to that particular practice.
 
In the UK there are ways to scam the system so you can get a boob job or a sex change type of thing. Any prescription is heavily subsidized so the boner pills are covered. Actually they might be available over the counter (generic) now. The NHS is painfully slow in some areas and some folks use insurance (BUPA) to get treatment quicker.

Cosmetic surgery can be a bit tricky to get on the NHS but is available depending what it is. I know two people who managed to get it but it was a struggle. One was to get their nose done, it was ever so slightly misshapen and the other was to have a mole removed from their nose.
 
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Can you give me some examples of what might not be considered medically necessary?

Would breast reconstruction after breast cancer be considered medically necessary?

Yes. My sister in law had that done. Didn't cost her a dime.


If you were say, a 55 year old man and received a diagnosis of prostate cancer, would you have treatment options? I mean, would you be able to weigh the pros and cons and select the option you felt best (under doctor's advice, of course)?

For established treatments, yes. If you want the government to fly you down to Bolivia so that a shaman can shove an iguana up your ass to suck the cancer out with its amphibian magic, probably not (maybe under an NDP government, though). For newer and unproven treatments, I believe that it's possible to get it covered but it needs to be signed off by someone reviewing the treatment and I'm not sure of how that process actually works.

Is viagra/cialis considered medically necessary?

If you're in a country run by old white men, you can be sure that they managed to find a rationale to make these medically necessary.

Is post menopausal HRT considered medically necessary?

I think so


If you had an amputation of a limb, would a prosthesis be considered medically necessary?

Yes. However, if you keep hacking off your limbs off in order to get free prostheses, I believe the government would have the authority to cut you off under the same legal precedent used by bartenders to deny more drinks to really drunk people.
 
Can you give me some examples of what might not be considered medically necessary?

Would breast reconstruction after breast cancer be considered medically necessary?
Yes.
If you were say, a 55 year old man and received a diagnosis of prostate cancer, would you have treatment options? I mean, would you be able to weigh the pros and cons and select the option you felt best (under doctor's advice, of course)?
Yes. There are almost always a variety of treatment options, and doctors discuss these with patients all the time. Of course, un-evidenced woo is unlikely to be covered - the doctors won't typically allow patients to demand unproven treatments. The NHS recently had a big debate about homeopathy, which was widely covered under the NHS until quite recently despite the expert opinion of the medical profession. At this time, only a handful of NHS regions still fund homeopathy, and there is ongoing pressure for them to stop wasting money in this way.
Is viagra/cialis considered medically necessary?
I don't know. It might be, but it would depend on the psychological impact of the patient's issues
Is post menopausal HRT considered medically necessary?
Yes.
If you had an amputation of a limb, would a prosthesis be considered medically necessary?
Yes. A friend of mine (who was himself an amputee, having had polio as a child) worked for the NHS prosthesis unit in Leeds as a physiotherapist, training patients in their use. The NHS has a range of prostheses available; however specialist items (such as running blades) may not be covered, or be only partially covered with the patient paying the difference in price from a standard prosthesis.
I'm sorry, I'm just weighing the pluses and minuses compared with the coverage that my husband and I have, which is very excellent. We haven't always had such good coverage and for a time, actually had no coverage at all. We've also been in the circumstance when an employer changed the insurance offerings made available to the employee in such a way that we had to change physicians, which was not good as we were very attached to that particular practice.

No need to apologize :)

The NHS is generally excellent, and is held in very high regard by its patients - most of the shortcomings of UHC that I see posited in the American media are not actual features of the NHS. Of course, the exact form any future US UHC might take could well be very different; But there's no inherent inability for a UHC system to provide excellent service. Once you are registered with a GP's practice, the only reason you would need to change doctors is if the doctor retired or moved away; Of course, you would be wise to change on your own initiative if you moved out of the area - but that's not compulsory.

When I first moved to Australia, I returned to the UK for a year while changing visa types, and I got a minor infection; I rang my family doctor and they said that they were not taking new patients - but because I was a former patient, they were happy to see me. So I saw Dr Addlestone, who had been my GP since I was born (he retired a few years later). Continuity of care is very important in the NHS, and they recognize that it saves a lot of time and money.
 
In the UK there are ways to scam the system so you can get a boob job or a sex change type of thing. Any prescription is heavily subsidized so the boner pills are covered. Actually they might be available over the counter (generic) now. The NHS is painfully slow in some areas and some folks use insurance (BUPA) to get treatment quicker.

Cosmetic surgery can be a bit tricky to get on the NHS but is available depending what it is. I know two people who managed to get it but it was a struggle. One was to get their nose done, it was ever so slightly misshapen and the other was to have a mole removed from their nose.
Generally it is allowed if a psychologist (or other specialist) believes that not having it would cause issues. If it's just something the patient would like, but won't suffer without, then they have to pay for it themselves. If your breasts are so large that they cause back pain, breast reduction surgery would be covered; If they are significantly different sizes, and this causes distress, then a boob job might be covered; If you want big tits so you can get a modeling job, then you have to pay for them yourself.

The system is based on medical specialist opinions of patient welfare considerations. Unlike the US system, where it is based on what the insurer can get away with not covering based on the small print in your contract.
 
In the UK there are ways to scam the system so you can get a boob job or a sex change type of thing. Any prescription is heavily subsidized so the boner pills are covered. Actually they might be available over the counter (generic) now. The NHS is painfully slow in some areas and some folks use insurance (BUPA) to get treatment quicker.

Cosmetic surgery can be a bit tricky to get on the NHS but is available depending what it is. I know two people who managed to get it but it was a struggle. One was to get their nose done, it was ever so slightly misshapen and the other was to have a mole removed from their nose.
Generally it is allowed if a psychologist (or other specialist) believes that not having it would cause issues. If it's just something the patient would like, but won't suffer without, then they have to pay for it themselves. If your breasts are so large that they cause back pain, breast reduction surgery would be covered; If they are significantly different sizes, and this causes distress, then a boob job might be covered; If you want big tits so you can get a modeling job, then you have to pay for them yourself.

The system is based on medical specialist opinions of patient welfare considerations. Unlike the US system, where it is based on what the insurer can get away with not covering based on the small print in your contract.

Your view of the US system is not quite correct, although I have encountered insurance companies who did do their best to not pay any claim and indeed, which made a practice of denying all claims the first 2 or 3 times they are submitted because some percentage of providers and some percentage of patients will simply give up and pay the claim. Never mind that the repeated filings, repeated requests for the same documentation of necessity over and over, the requirement that physicians personally sign all claim submissions, etc. serves to drive up the costs of coverage for ALL patients.

Unfortunately, those unethical insurers tend to be the ones most 'affordable' to low income people or their employers, while providing as little coverage as possible. But most insurers that I have encountered are more ethical than that and work to pay claims as efficiently as possible.

I was curious as I have known patients in the US who have had various procedures that some might not consider to be 'medically necessary,' including medication for ED, breast reduction, breast reconstruction after cancer, etc. I didn't know how those issues were handled in single payer universal health care systems.

Asking as a purely hypothetical: How do you feel about those who are better off financially being able to purchase private insurance which supplements their government issued insurance?

In the US, one of the big issues is that there are gross inequities in the kinds of care people can afford based on income. My husband and I are fortunate in that we each have very good insurance coverage and for a modest sum are able to cover our spouse as well, which has translated into minimal medical bills even after say, surgery for cancer or cataracts or hernia repair. We have good dental coverage (have not had to test the coverage for dentures or implants yet, thankfully) and can get the cost of prescription eye wear reimbursed via funds provided by our employers. The sad irony is that our offspring, young adults new in their careers (and earning far less than their parents), pay more out of pocket for their insurance premiums than either of their parents and would pay more out of pocket for routine care, or for say, a hernia repair which can be needed at any age, not just middle aged to older adults. We can afford to pay out of pocket of a couple of thousand dollars which thankfully, we have not had to do. For my offspring at this stage in their lives? This would be very difficult for them to do. One of my kids had a serious case of the flu and had to go to urgent care, get meds, etc. Was outraged at the cost of the care but this particular strain was claiming the lives of otherwise healthy young adults so it was necessary. But that few hundred bucks was a lot out of their budget, especially since while ill, they weren't earning money either. Which is not uncommon and is grossly unfair. And frankly often results in providers not getting paid, courts, etc.

My absolute belief is that EVERYONE deserves the level and access of care that my husband and I enjoy. Or better. Everyone. I don't care if you are wealthy or poor, an addict, a health enthusiast, young, old, etc.

There are other stark inequalities as well: people in rural areas have more difficulty accessing health care because there are proportionally fewer health care providers. This problem is increasing as smaller hospitals consolidate/close. In low income urban areas there are fewer providers as well, at least partially because Medicaid (govt. insurance for poor people) pays less than it costs to provide the services needed. Increasingly, Medicare (govt. coverage for those 65+) does not cover the costs of providing services. And frankly, insurance companies are looking more and more to Medicare and saying: If Medicare only pays $75 for this, why should we pay more? I see the point but also see how providers are working very hard to become more and more efficient, to reduce costs. There is a really genuine fear that this trend will decrease the number of people wishing to become physicians if they are not able to earn enough to repay medical school loans and to raise a family in a decent middle class level.

Another real concerns about single payer health insurance in the US is that such coverage could/would be subject to the political fake religious views of legislators. See outcry at covering women's birth control or even pregnancy and labor and delivery as a mandatory benefit. Of course, wealthier people will always be able to find a way to get whatever medical care they want. This also plays out in end of life care. Both my husband and I lost parents after long illnesses and each of us had one parent who, sadly, spent the end of their lives in a skilled nursing home facility, in separate states. Both states are pretty conservative. However, there were stark differences. In the case of my parent, morphine was offered to alleviate pain, although it would (and did) suppress respiration and in a small way, probably hastened the inevitable death of my parent. But my parent died without being in pain. My husband's parent, in a different state, was not offered enough pain relief to make last months bearable. Unfortunately, and predictably, this had a serious negative impact on relationships with family and friends and caretakers. We were all miserable, not just sad.

In the US, there is a tremendous push by (some) patients to do 'everything possible' to extend the life of a terminally ill patient, rather than provide palliative care to support patient (and family) through a final illness. This also adds greatly to the cost of care in the US. Within families, there can be conflict. There was in my family but fortunately, more rational heads, and the progress of my parent's illness prevailed and they were spared useless, expensive, intrusive, uncomfortable treatment while being kept comfortably pain free.
 
There are pros and cons for both systems. Among other things, the trouble with single payer in the hands of government is that it does become a political football. That can and is dangerous for patients. The NHS in the U.K. is proving to be unsustainable. Lots of people are starting to supplement their medical care with insurance.
 
There are pros and cons for both systems. Among other things, the trouble with single payer in the hands of government is that it does become a political football. That can and is dangerous for patients. The NHS in the U.K. is proving to be unsustainable. Lots of people are starting to supplement their medical care with insurance.

Again, I know I am exposing my ignorance, but haven't people, or at least some people who could afford to do so, supplemented their government provided health care insurance with private pay insurance? It seems as though I've known about the private pay insurance for a long time. I could be wrong

Why do you say that the NHS is unsustainable in the UK? What factors are contributing to make it be unsustainable?
 
Again, I know I am exposing my ignorance, but haven't people, or at least some people who could afford to do so, supplemented their government provided health care insurance with private pay insurance?

Up until fairly recently, supplemental health insurance was not a common thing. It is becoming more prevalent as the NHS struggles to provide healthcare. BUPA used to be frowned upon but it seems it is more acceptable now.


Why do you say that the NHS is unsustainable in the UK? What factors are contributing to make it be unsustainable?

The demands outweigh what is going in.
 
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