So Bibi Wants To Begin The "Final Solution."

[Loren Pechtel]

The overwhelming majority have said they would accept the 1967 borders, both in the PA and among ordinary citizens. They want the Jews to stay in Israel. They want the Zionist settlers out of the West Bank unless those settlers are willing to become citizens of the State of Palestine and stop being assholes. They also want their Rights under international law to be acknowledged and respected, which should happen anyway; they shouldn't have to ask.

What they really want is the annihilation of any state of Israel. Muslim ideology is that whatever Islam conquers, has to remain muslim for ever.

What I find so interesting about ^this response is that you are accusing Muslims of thinking like Zionists.

No, he's not. He's describing the reality of Islam. They really hate it when they lose conquered land.

Netanyahu-type Zionists claim a Right to rule all the land that belonged to the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, and never mind that those kingdoms disappeared thousands of years ago. YHWH gave the land to Jews, and once Jewish land, always Jewish land, for Jews only.

You say Muslims have the exact same mindset. You say they're all devout fundamentalists who believe that once a land has been claimed for Islam it must be ruled by Muslims forever. Jews and Christians might live there, but the land belongs to people who submit to the will of Allah, not those 'others' who defy Him.

The Jews would like the lands they previously had. The Muslims will not accept peace without the lands they previously had. Big difference.

I guess you see the conflict as a winner-take-all proposition and that's why you reject anything resembling compromise and sharing. You seem to think one version of "God wants us to have this land, not you!" must utterly vanquish the other before there can be peace, and you obviously want the Zionists to win.

It's Islam that rejects compromise. They don't even believe in peace with non-Muslims.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No, you changed it. Key: "that they wanted". They see a two-state "solution" as a stepping-stone to continued conquest. They want a state with no expectation of being peaceful.



ROTFL.

Honestly, if you're this clueless about the consistent, widespread, and majority-driven Palestinian support for a Two State solution based on the 1967 borders after all these years discussing it, you've gone beyond partisanship and into mindless dogmatic droning mode.

You've fallen for their propaganda.

You don't know what's propaganda because you refuse to learn the facts.

I once started a thread on the Oslo Accords just for you. I wanted to discuss what they actually spelled out and what might be reasonably inferred from the text, but you wouldn't even read them. I wanted to discuss the popularity and practicality of the various proposals, the push back from certain factions, the assassination of Rabin and the subsequent negotiations, etc. You wouldn't read any documents, follow any links, consider any comments from participants, or anything of the sort. You just kept posting unsupported assertions, wild guesses, and bullshit.

In fact, you actually reposted something that had already been shown to be bullshit, but I guess you liked what it said so you shared it again.

You're not an authority on this topic. You don't even read your own sources, much less anyone else's.

Trying to support things with you is impossible because you won't accept any remotely pro-Israel source.

 

[Arctish]

What I find so interesting about ^this response is that you are accusing Muslims of thinking like Zionists.

No, he's not. He's describing the reality of Islam. They really hate it when they lose conquered land

Netanyahu-type Zionists claim a Right to rule all the land that belonged to the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, and never mind that those kingdoms disappeared thousands of years ago. YHWH gave the land to Jews, and once Jewish land, always Jewish land, for Jews only.

You say Muslims have the exact same mindset. You say they're all devout fundamentalists who believe that once a land has been claimed for Islam it must be ruled by Muslims forever. Jews and Christians might live there, but the land belongs to people who submit to the will of Allah, not those 'others' who defy Him.

The Jews would like the lands they previously had. The Muslims will not accept peace without the lands they previously had. Big difference.

Another unsupported assertion, and another example of you ignoring facts like the reason why Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by a Zionist and why his widow never forgave Netanyahu for the part he played in it.

Netanyahu-type Zionists demand the lands previously held by the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah be part of Israel, and under Jewish Israeli rule. That's the whole point of referring to the West Bank as Judea and Samaria, which you would already know if you paid any attention to history or what Zionists like Netanyahu say.

Both you and angelo accuse Muslims of thinking like Zionists - land that was once under <preferred religion> rule is their land forever. I have no doubt you find that observation offensive, but it's accurate.

I guess you see the conflict as a winner-take-all proposition and that's why you reject anything resembling compromise and sharing. You seem to think one version of "God wants us to have this land, not you!" must utterly vanquish the other before there can be peace, and you obviously want the Zionists to win.

It's Islam that rejects compromise. They don't even believe in peace with non-Muslims.

Shifting goalposts, much? I was commenting on angelo's winner-take-all attitude wrt the conflict. You're not disagreeing with me, you're just deflecting.

 

[Arctish]

Trying to support things with you is impossible because you won't accept any remotely pro-Israel source.

Instead of looking for a pro-Israel source (whatever that means), try looking for a source with a reputation for reliability and accuracy. It can be an Israeli source like the Times of Israel or a historian at Tel Aviv University, or you can use the Jewish Virtual Library. I use those sources, too. What's important is that it isn't just some random blogger, it's someone who might actually know something about the situation and isn't just spouting propaganda and bullshit.

If you can't find a respectable source that supports your claims, there's something wrong with your claims.

If you won't even try to support your claims, the problem is your refusal, not my skepticism.

 

[angelo]

The overwhelming majority have said they would accept the 1967 borders, both in the PA and among ordinary citizens. They want the Jews to stay in Israel. They want the Zionist settlers out of the West Bank unless those settlers are willing to become citizens of the State of Palestine and stop being assholes. They also want their Rights under international law to be acknowledged and respected, which should happen anyway; they shouldn't have to ask.

What they really want is the annihilation of any state of Israel. Muslim ideology is that whatever Islam conquers, has to remain muslim for ever.

What I find so interesting about ^this response is that you are accusing Muslims of thinking like Zionists.

Netanyahu-type Zionists claim a Right to rule all the land that belonged to the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, and never mind that those kingdoms disappeared thousands of years ago. YHWH gave the land to Jews, and once Jewish land, always Jewish land, for Jews only.

You say Muslims have the exact same mindset. You say they're all devout fundamentalists who believe that once a land has been claimed for Islam it must be ruled by Muslims forever. Jews and Christians might live there, but the land belongs to people who submit to the will of Allah, not those 'others' who defy Him.

I guess you see the conflict as a winner-take-all proposition and that's why you reject anything resembling compromise and sharing. You seem to think one version of "God wants us to have this land, not you!" must utterly vanquish the other before there can be peace, and you obviously want the Zionists to win.

In truth, there are 22 Arab/muslim [lower case on purpose] nations and only one tiny Jewish state that most of these 22 Arab nations want to eliminate.
22 Arab countries
What are their names? The Arab world consists of 22 Arab countries. Those countries are Jordan, Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Morocco, Mauritania, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, the Comoros Islands, Iraq, Djibouti, and the United Arab Emirates.Dec 5, 2017

 

[Arctish]

What I find so interesting about ^this response is that you are accusing Muslims of thinking like Zionists.

Netanyahu-type Zionists claim a Right to rule all the land that belonged to the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, and never mind that those kingdoms disappeared thousands of years ago. YHWH gave the land to Jews, and once Jewish land, always Jewish land, for Jews only.

You say Muslims have the exact same mindset. You say they're all devout fundamentalists who believe that once a land has been claimed for Islam it must be ruled by Muslims forever. Jews and Christians might live there, but the land belongs to people who submit to the will of Allah, not those 'others' who defy Him.

I guess you see the conflict as a winner-take-all proposition and that's why you reject anything resembling compromise and sharing. You seem to think one version of "God wants us to have this land, not you!" must utterly vanquish the other before there can be peace, and you obviously want the Zionists to win.

In truth, there are 22 Arab/muslim [lower case on purpose] nations and only one tiny Jewish state that most of these 22 Arab nations want to eliminate.
22 Arab countries
What are their names? The Arab world consists of 22 Arab countries. Those countries are Jordan, Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Morocco, Mauritania, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, the Comoros Islands, Iraq, Djibouti, and the United Arab Emirates.Dec 5, 2017

And your point is... ?

 

[angelo]

What I find so interesting about ^this response is that you are accusing Muslims of thinking like Zionists.

No, he's not. He's describing the reality of Islam. They really hate it when they lose conquered land.

Netanyahu-type Zionists claim a Right to rule all the land that belonged to the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, and never mind that those kingdoms disappeared thousands of years ago. YHWH gave the land to Jews, and once Jewish land, always Jewish land, for Jews only.

You say Muslims have the exact same mindset. You say they're all devout fundamentalists who believe that once a land has been claimed for Islam it must be ruled by Muslims forever. Jews and Christians might live there, but the land belongs to people who submit to the will of Allah, not those 'others' who defy Him.

The Jews would like the lands they previously had. The Muslims will not accept peace without the lands they previously had. Big difference.

I guess you see the conflict as a winner-take-all proposition and that's why you reject anything resembling compromise and sharing. You seem to think one version of "God wants us to have this land, not you!" must utterly vanquish the other before there can be peace, and you obviously want the Zionists to win.

It's Islam that rejects compromise. They don't even believe in peace with non-Muslims.

Hell, they even war amongst themselves let alone non muslims. Shia and Sunni muslims are slaughtering themselves now, and it would get much worse were it not for their mutual hate of America [ big satan] and Israel [ little satan].

 

[angelo]

What I find so interesting about ^this response is that you are accusing Muslims of thinking like Zionists.

Netanyahu-type Zionists claim a Right to rule all the land that belonged to the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, and never mind that those kingdoms disappeared thousands of years ago. YHWH gave the land to Jews, and once Jewish land, always Jewish land, for Jews only.

You say Muslims have the exact same mindset. You say they're all devout fundamentalists who believe that once a land has been claimed for Islam it must be ruled by Muslims forever. Jews and Christians might live there, but the land belongs to people who submit to the will of Allah, not those 'others' who defy Him.

I guess you see the conflict as a winner-take-all proposition and that's why you reject anything resembling compromise and sharing. You seem to think one version of "God wants us to have this land, not you!" must utterly vanquish the other before there can be peace, and you obviously want the Zionists to win.

In truth, there are 22 Arab/muslim [lower case on purpose] nations and only one tiny Jewish state that most of these 22 Arab nations want to eliminate.
22 Arab countries
What are their names? The Arab world consists of 22 Arab countries. Those countries are Jordan, Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Morocco, Mauritania, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, the Comoros Islands, Iraq, Djibouti, and the United Arab Emirates.Dec 5, 2017

And your point is... ?

How many of these Arab nations have offered to accept so called " Palestinian Arab refugees?"

 

[Arctish]

And your point is... ?

How many of these Arab nations have offered to accept so called " Palestinian Arab refugees?"

I don't know. But since they weren't the ones who made those Palestinians refugees, and have no obligation under international law to make that offer, they're not at fault for the situation even though they could alleviate it.

Israel OTOH not only bears full responsibility for driving non-Jews out and making them refugees, it agreed to abide by UN resolutions when it became a member of the UN, which means Israel is obligated under international law to allow the refugees to return. Israel could alleviate the situation, and should, and by not doing so is in violation of U.N. Security Council resolutions, the U.N. Charter, the Geneva Conventions, and its agreements with other UN member states when it joined the organization.

I don't see what that has to do with you accusing Muslims of thinking like Zionists, but whatever.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And your point is... ?

How many of these Arab nations have offered to accept so called " Palestinian Arab refugees?"

I don't know. But since they weren't the ones who made those Palestinians refugees, and have no obligation under international law to make that offer, they're not at fault for the situation even though they could alleviate it.

1) They did make those refugees by attempting genocide. Here's what the secretary general of the Arab league said about that war: https://www.meforum.org/3082/azzam-genocide-threat

2) There is also the problem that they deliberately keep the refugee problem going in order to use them as cannon fodder.

Israel OTOH not only bears full responsibility for driving non-Jews out and making them refugees, it agreed to abide by UN resolutions when it became a member of the UN, which means Israel is obligated under international law to allow the refugees to return.

Lots of countries have disobeyed UN resolutions. Would you accept a UN resolution requiring you to commit suicide?

I don't see what that has to do with you accusing Muslims of thinking like Zionists, but whatever.

The Muslims think like you think the Zionists think. Meanwhile you are utterly blind to the fact that you're advocating genocide.

 

[Arctish]

I don't know. But since they weren't the ones who made those Palestinians refugees, and have no obligation under international law to make that offer, they're not at fault for the situation even though they could alleviate it.

1) They did make those refugees by attempting genocide. Here's what the secretary general of the Arab league said about that war: https://www.meforum.org/3082/azzam-genocide-threat

Did you read that article all the way through? It's about a quote so obscure that historians, even ones as knowledgeable as Morris, doubted its authenticity. And you're seriously offering this as evidence the Arab nations are responsible for the ethnic cleansing laid out in plans the Jewish Agency for Palestine made years before those words were spoken, because they were spoken in an obscure interview no one remembered? You think it absolves the Zionist founders of Israel of responsibility for the refugee crisis that was part of their Plan to clear out Palestinians and replace them with Jews?

2) There is also the problem that they deliberately keep the refugee problem going in order to use them as cannon fodder

The problem is that the refugees have the Right to Return to the places from which they were driven by war, terrorism, and the premeditated actions of Zionists, but Israel won't let them. You can't hand wave that away no matter how hard you try. The Zionists who created Israel created this problem and the government of Israel exacerbated it. It's Israel's doing and Israel is responsible for fixing it.

Israel OTOH not only bears full responsibility for driving non-Jews out and making them refugees, it agreed to abide by UN resolutions when it became a member of the UN, which means Israel is obligated under international law to allow the refugees to return.

Lots of countries have disobeyed UN resolutions. Would you accept a UN resolution requiring you to commit suicide?

Non-sequitur, and a pretty stupid one at that.

Look, I get it. You fear and hate Palestinians. You think Israel can only exist if it commits widespread human rights violations, and for some reason you don't think that's a good reason for it to be scrapped in favor of a State built on the principles of equality and social justice. You say Jews and Arabs live together peaceably in Israel whenever it suits the argument you're making at that moment, and say it's Inconceivable! they could live together in peace the next, because the truth of your claims is less important than their utility.

I don't see what that has to do with you accusing Muslims of thinking like Zionists, but whatever.

The Muslims think like you think the Zionists think.

So you're saying you think Muslims really do think like Netanyahu-type Zionists.

Okay, then. I'm glad we cleared that up.

 

[angelo]

And your point is... ?

How many of these Arab nations have offered to accept so called " Palestinian Arab refugees?"

I don't know. But since they weren't the ones who made those Palestinians refugees, and have no obligation under international law to make that offer, they're not at fault for the situation even though they could alleviate it.

Israel OTOH not only bears full responsibility for driving non-Jews out and making them refugees, it agreed to abide by UN resolutions when it became a member of the UN, which means Israel is obligated under international law to allow the refugees to return. Israel could alleviate the situation, and should, and by not doing so is in violation of U.N. Security Council resolutions, the U.N. Charter, the Geneva Conventions, and its agreements with other UN member states when it joined the organization.

I don't see what that has to do with you accusing Muslims of thinking like Zionists, but whatever.

So, no mention of the over 1 million Jews who were expelled from many Arab lands at the declaration of the Jewish state, lands where generations of Jews had lived for centuries in many cases?

 

[Arctish]

I don't know. But since they weren't the ones who made those Palestinians refugees, and have no obligation under international law to make that offer, they're not at fault for the situation even though they could alleviate it.

Israel OTOH not only bears full responsibility for driving non-Jews out and making them refugees, it agreed to abide by UN resolutions when it became a member of the UN, which means Israel is obligated under international law to allow the refugees to return. Israel could alleviate the situation, and should, and by not doing so is in violation of U.N. Security Council resolutions, the U.N. Charter, the Geneva Conventions, and its agreements with other UN member states when it joined the organization.

I don't see what that has to do with you accusing Muslims of thinking like Zionists, but whatever.

So, no mention of the over 1 million Jews who were expelled from many Arab lands at the declaration of the Jewish state, lands where generations of Jews had lived for centuries in many cases?

Did you forget we already discussed them in this very thread?

It's really difficult sometimes to convince myself you and Loren are arguing in good faith when you post shit like this. Tonight I'm finding it impossible.

 

[angelo]

Of course that any criticism of your precious Arab friends is hard to defend. By the way, it's not Israel who is a constant threat to peace in the Middle East. That honour belongs to the mullahs in Tehran.

https://worldisraelnews.com/iran-at...l+be+Uprooted+from+their+Land;+'Omar+Built+Ca

 

[Arctish]

Of course that any criticism of your precious Arab friends is hard to defend. By the way, it's not Israel who is a constant threat to peace in the Middle East. That honour belongs to the mullahs in Tehran.

https://worldisraelnews.com/iran-at...l+be+Uprooted+from+their+Land;+'Omar+Built+Ca

First off, my Muslim friends are Americans and they're easy to defend. They're nice people.

Second, if you're talking about Arab nations, they're not my friends. I don't have any particularly warm feeling for them, either, although I would like to see the ancient Egyptian monuments someday. I think what you're calling friendliness is just me judging actions by a single standard and avoiding double standards as much as possible. I believe that if an action is immoral or wrong, it's immoral or wrong no matter who is doing it to whom.

Third, you're wrong about Israel not being a constant threat to peace in the Middle East. The ethnic cleansing of Palestine, the loss of life and destruction of livelihoods, the seizure of lands, wells, natural resources, donated aid, and more, is an ongoing human rights violation. That sort of thing is by it's very nature a threat to peace and stability. Netanyahu isn't kidding when he says he intends for Israel to annex all of the West Bank. The Palestinians living there won't be offered Israeli citizenship, and even if they were, Netanyahu has openly stated his opinion that Israel isn't a nation for all of its citizens, just the Jewish ones. Ffs, if you can't understand how that shit is causing conflict then you don't understand human beings at all.

And fourth, this thread is about Netanyahu, his plans for Israel and the West Bank, the support for his plans in Israel and the US, the history of the conflict between Zionists and the indigenous Palestinian people, and other closely related issues. If you want to talk about Persians and their attempts to control shipping off the coast of Iran, start a new one.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The problem is that the refugees have the Right to Return to the places from which they were driven by war, terrorism, and the premeditated actions of Zionists, but Israel won't let them. You can't hand wave that away no matter how hard you try. The Zionists who created Israel created this problem and the government of Israel exacerbated it. It's Israel's doing and Israel is responsible for fixing it.

Israel agreed to the partition. The problem was created by the Arabs who didn't--there would have been no refugees without the war the Arabs started.

And how about all the Jews who were displaced? At least as many as the Arabs, but Israel didn't keep them in poverty to use as a weapon so we don't hear about them anymore.

Israel OTOH not only bears full responsibility for driving non-Jews out and making them refugees, it agreed to abide by UN resolutions when it became a member of the UN, which means Israel is obligated under international law to allow the refugees to return.

Lots of countries have disobeyed UN resolutions. Would you accept a UN resolution requiring you to commit suicide?

Non-sequitur, and a pretty stupid one at that.

It's quite relevant--the UN is asking Israel to commit suicide.

Look, I get it. You fear and hate Palestinians. You think Israel can only exist if it commits widespread human rights violations, and for some reason you don't think that's a good reason for it to be scrapped in favor of a State built on the principles of equality and social justice. You say Jews and Arabs live together peaceably in Israel whenever it suits the argument you're making at that moment, and say it's Inconceivable! they could live together in peace the next, because the truth of your claims is less important than their utility.

The ones that haven't had a lifetime of brainwashing live in reasonable peace. You can't just wave a magic wand and get rid of that brainwashing, though.

I don't see what that has to do with you accusing Muslims of thinking like Zionists, but whatever.

The Muslims think like you think the Zionists think.

So you're saying you think Muslims really do think like Netanyahu-type Zionists.

Okay, then. I'm glad we cleared that up.

I said "how you think the Zionists think." That doesn't make your position accurate. The Jews would like historical Israel, but they aren't interested in genocide to obtain it. The Palestinians want to obtain it by genocide.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Third, you're wrong about Israel not being a constant threat to peace in the Middle East. The ethnic cleansing of Palestine, the loss of life and destruction of livelihoods, the seizure of lands, wells, natural resources, donated aid, and more, is an ongoing human rights violation. That sort of thing is by it's very nature a threat to peace and stability. Netanyahu isn't kidding when he says he intends for Israel to annex all of the West Bank. The Palestinians living there won't be offered Israeli citizenship, and even if they were, Netanyahu has openly stated his opinion that Israel isn't a nation for all of its citizens, just the Jewish ones. Ffs, if you can't understand how that shit is causing conflict then you don't understand human beings at all.

And fourth, this thread is about Netanyahu, his plans for Israel and the West Bank, the support for his plans in Israel and the US, the history of the conflict between Zionists and the indigenous Palestinian people, and other closely related issues. If you want to talk about Persians and their attempts to control shipping off the coast of Iran, start a new one.

Ethnic cleansing? That was carried out by the Arabs, not the Jews.

And the destruction you talk about is staged for the press--the Palestinians build without permission, often on land they don't even own, and then cry to the press when Israel tears down the improper construction. Many of the donors have to know what's going on because the same things get torn down again and again.

And how much of that donated "aid" is weapons?

 

[Arctish]

Israel agreed to the partition.

Zionists agree to partition Palestine. They did it because they wanted to partition Palestine. They did not agree to the partition plan outlined by the UN, which you already know but like to pretend you don't.

And, and this point can't be emphasized enough, those Zionists were for the most part recently arrived European immigrants who shouldn't have had a say over what happened to the indigenous population, their communities, or their property, anyway.

The problem was created by the Arabs who didn't--there would have been no refugees without the war the Arabs started.

^This is a lie.

You know about the work of the Transfer Committee in the 1930s and 1940s. You know that as soon as the Zionists on the Jewish Agency for Palestine realized they couldn't hope to buy enough land to create the State they wanted, they began planning to take it by force. You know about the arms shipments and the paramilitary training and the terrorist attacks. And you know about Ben Gurion giving the green light for Plan Dalet to commence, a plan of ethnic cleansing that was years in the development.

And how about all the Jews who were displaced? At least as many as the Arabs, but Israel didn't keep them in poverty to use as a weapon so we don't hear about them anymore.

Once again you have convinced me that you are not reading my posts with comprehension, are not arguing in good faith, and are not worth my time.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Zionists agree to partition Palestine. They did it because they wanted to partition Palestine. They did not agree to the partition plan outlined by the UN, which you already know but like to pretend you don't.

They wanted more but they accepted the UN plan.

And, and this point can't be emphasized enough, those Zionists were for the most part recently arrived European immigrants who shouldn't have had a say over what happened to the indigenous population, their communities, or their property, anyway.

Both sides had a lot of immigrants.

^This is a lie.

Saying it is a lie doesn't make it so. Nobody was kicked out of anywhere until the Arabs took up arms.

You know about the work of the Transfer Committee in the 1930s and 1940s. You know that as soon as the Zionists on the Jewish Agency for Palestine realized they couldn't hope to buy enough land to create the State they wanted, they began planning to take it by force. You know about the arms shipments and the paramilitary training and the terrorist attacks. And you know about Ben Gurion giving the green light for Plan Dalet to commence, a plan of ethnic cleansing that was years in the development.

Knowing there is going to be war doesn't mean they wanted war. If they hadn't armed and trained they would be dead.

And how about all the Jews who were displaced? At least as many as the Arabs, but Israel didn't keep them in poverty to use as a weapon so we don't hear about them anymore.

Once again you have convinced me that you are not reading my posts with comprehension, are not arguing in good faith, and are not worth my time.

You pretend you care but you don't see that it's two sides of the same issue.

 

[Arctish]

They wanted more but they accepted the UN plan.



Both sides had a lot of immigrants.

^This is a lie.

Saying it is a lie doesn't make it so. Nobody was kicked out of anywhere until the Arabs took up arms.

You know about the work of the Transfer Committee in the 1930s and 1940s. You know that as soon as the Zionists on the Jewish Agency for Palestine realized they couldn't hope to buy enough land to create the State they wanted, they began planning to take it by force. You know about the arms shipments and the paramilitary training and the terrorist attacks. And you know about Ben Gurion giving the green light for Plan Dalet to commence, a plan of ethnic cleansing that was years in the development.

Knowing there is going to be war doesn't mean they wanted war. If they hadn't armed and trained they would be dead.

And how about all the Jews who were displaced? At least as many as the Arabs, but Israel didn't keep them in poverty to use as a weapon so we don't hear about them anymore.

Once again you have convinced me that you are not reading my posts with comprehension, are not arguing in good faith, and are not worth my time.

You pretend you care but you don't see that it's two sides of the same issue.

I get it, Loren. Your schtick is Bullshit.

You don't care about the truth of your claims. That's why you rarely bother to source them. You don't even read the articles you do use, can't remember where you found them, don't know anything about the authors, or anything else really. It's why you misquote posters, pretend you don't know what they're talking about and then in the very next post act like you're an authority on the subject, and why you often pretend you read something you didn't even skim. It doesn't matter to your posts. The degree of accuracy is irrelevant. What matters is whether a claim is useful in supporting an argument you wish to make. It's all about utility.

That's why you post lies. Lies can be useful. And that's why you don't care that anyone interested enough in the topic to follow links can see that they're lies. It doesn't matter if your bullshit is true or not, which is why its Bullshit.

Anyone interested in Plan Dalet or the Jewish Agency for Palestine or anything else mentioned in my posts can follow the links or do their own search. They don't have to rely on you for information. In fact, they shouldn't.