Soccer

[TSwizzle]

A video of some of Maradona's highlights of his brief time at FC Barcelona;



There is an unsavory moment at the 1:40 mark where Maradona lays out one of the opposing team's staff with a flying knee to the chin. Well before MMA became fashionable.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

One of the most talented players to ever have played the game has died. Diego Maradona was a gifted player and a joy to watch at his peak.

And yet he will always be remembered for his cheating.

There's a lesson in that for us all.

That you can still be regarded as the #1 player of all time? Maradona is before my time. I watched the '86 World Cup, but was too young to really know what was going on.

 

[bilby]

Some great video of Maradona available on youtube;



Argentina won the WC in '86 and of course Maradona was instrumental but that era of Argentine football was chock full of talent. Argentina would go on to appear in the WC final in Italia '90. Maradona made a brief appearance in the 94 WC and scored a cracking goal against Greece. What a fantastic player he really was.

Indeed he was.

But he's still going to be remembered as a cheat.

Which is a great shame. He didn't even need to cheat. He had the ability to win fairly. But he chose to cheat, very publicly, and to deny it when the world knew he was lying. So he won't be remembered as a great football player. He will be remembered as a cheat.

 

[bilby]

One of the most talented players to ever have played the game has died. Diego Maradona was a gifted player and a joy to watch at his peak.

And yet he will always be remembered for his cheating.

There's a lesson in that for us all.

That you can still be regarded as the #1 player of all time? Maradona is before my time. I watched the '86 World Cup, but was too young to really know what was going on.

#1 player of all time? It's Maradona who died, not Pelé.

Pelé is still alive (though at 80 he's likely not at the top of his game anymore).

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Some great video of Maradona available on youtube;



Argentina won the WC in '86 and of course Maradona was instrumental but that era of Argentine football was chock full of talent. Argentina would go on to appear in the WC final in Italia '90. Maradona made a brief appearance in the 94 WC and scored a cracking goal against Greece. What a fantastic player he really was.

Indeed he was.

But he's still going to be remembered as a cheat.

Which is a great shame. He didn't even need to cheat. He had the ability to win fairly. But he chose to cheat, very publicly, and to deny it when the world knew he was lying. So he won't be remembered as a great football player. He will be remembered as a cheat.

It's more complicated. Some will remember him as a great football player (most Argentinians as the greatest of all time, I would say). Others as a cheat. Others as both. Many will continue to celebrate the "Hand of God". And others will not remember him at all.

 

[bilby]

Some great video of Maradona available on youtube;



Argentina won the WC in '86 and of course Maradona was instrumental but that era of Argentine football was chock full of talent. Argentina would go on to appear in the WC final in Italia '90. Maradona made a brief appearance in the 94 WC and scored a cracking goal against Greece. What a fantastic player he really was.

Indeed he was.

But he's still going to be remembered as a cheat.

Which is a great shame. He didn't even need to cheat. He had the ability to win fairly. But he chose to cheat, very publicly, and to deny it when the world knew he was lying. So he won't be remembered as a great football player. He will be remembered as a cheat.

It's more complicated. Some will remember him as a great football player (most Argentinians as the greatest of all time, I would say). Others as a cheat. Others as both. Many will continue to celebrate the "Hand of God". And others will not remember him at all.

Of course. But by not cheating he could have been remembered as a great footballer by football fans. Which I presume would be the preference of most great footballers.

The "Hand of God" is a huge blot on his memory, and stands as a warning to anyone who seeks glory without understanding that honour is a prerequisite.

 

[TSwizzle]

It's more complicated. Some will remember him as a great football player (most Argentinians as the greatest of all time, I would say). Others as a cheat. Others as both. Many will continue to celebrate the "Hand of God". And others will not remember him at all.

It’s the bitter, delusional English that obsess about the cheat and “hand of god” nonsense.

 

[rousseau]

It's more complicated. Some will remember him as a great football player (most Argentinians as the greatest of all time, I would say). Others as a cheat. Others as both. Many will continue to celebrate the "Hand of God". And others will not remember him at all.

Of course. But by not cheating he could have been remembered as a great footballer by football fans. Which I presume would be the preference of most great footballers.

The "Hand of God" is a huge blot on his memory, and stands as a warning to anyone who seeks glory without understanding that honour is a prerequisite.

It's true. An accomplishment is only an accomplishment if it's achieved by following the rules. Some won't recognize this, but to true sports fans and historians it's a big deal.

Messi, for example, will likely never win a World Cup, but he did win a Golden Ball fairly, and a whole whack of other trophies. In the end his integrity will be in tact.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So did Maradona. The World Cup isn’t the only achievement he has, by a long shot.

I’m not a huge Maradona fan, again predates me, but the guy was one of the best dribblers of all time.

 

[rousseau]

So did Maradona. The World Cup isn’t the only achievement he has, by a long shot.

I’m not a huge Maradona fan, again predates me, but the guy was one of the best dribblers of all time.

Oh I have no doubt. It's just a comment that the argument that a World Cup (or similar) is actually important is a bit silly to anyone doing a serious analysis. Maradona would have been better off had he not cheated, and not won one.

Where Messi's proved that he's an incredible player, AND all of his accomplishments are untainted. So he's got the awards and the integrity. In a team game you just can't guarantee titles, as we're seeing now with Messi at Barca, and Ronaldo at Juventus.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Of course. But by not cheating he could have been remembered as a great footballer by football fans. Which I presume would be the preference of most great footballers.

I wouldn't know, but I would guess that if so, not all football fans would be on the same level. He'd care about how some will remember more than others (not that the outcome would affect him in reality of course, since he is dead).

The "Hand of God" is a huge blot on his memory, and stands as a warning to anyone who seeks glory without understanding that honour is a prerequisite.

Yes, in the memory that is in your mind, and I suppose in the mind of many football fans where you live, I guess, but extremely few ones where I live. Moreover, among some (I'd say many) fans over here, the "Hand of God" gave him an even higher status than he would have gotten otherwise, so on balance, I think he liked it better this way than without the goal. The preferences to be remembered in some way and not another would have been similar, I think.

Granted, I'm speculating here on the basis of anecdotal evidence (though a considerable amount of it), and have no hard data. But then, we are both doing that as far as I can tell.

Oh, and I'm actually not a fan. Just making an assessment on the basis of what I see. On that note:

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/thousands-lining-farewell-maradona-casa-rosada-74415330

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If the hand of god goal came against a non-Euro team, I ponder who’d still care.

 

[TSwizzle]

I still remember Thierry Henry’s handball in a World Cup qualifier against Ireland in 2009 which eliminated Ireland. I wonder if that will get talked about if he dies.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So, Mourinho coached Tottenham are top of the table in the EPL. Yeah, it is early, but it is certainly unexpected. Mourinho has long been Mr. I'll Win You a Title if you spend 200 million pounds over the summer. Tottenham doesn't operate that way. So it seemed a bad fit. But 11 games into the season, Tottenham had a GD advantage over Liverpool and 24 points.

 

[TSwizzle]

Another soccer legend passes away at 64. Paolo Rossi was a legend in Italy and across the footballing world. A world cup winner in 1982 he was regarded as one of the best strikers in the game ever.

Rossi became a household name after leading the Azzurri to victory at the tournament in Spain, finishing as top scorer and being named best player. At club level he first came to prominence as a prolific scorer for Vicenza, earning a move to Juventus and later playing for AC Milan. His death was announced on Thursday, following what Italian media report had been a long illness.

BBC

Rossie scoring a hat trick against Brazil in the 1982 world cup;

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Frank Lampard sacked from Chelsea. I was actually nervous because "Frank Lampard" was click text link near the top of the CNN website, and seeing the EPL isn't news in the US, I feared something bad happened to him. 'Luckily' he was only sacked. He is one of a long line of mangers to be sacked at Chelsea, success and failure at Chelsea will not be tolerated by the ownership. So Lampard was doomed one way or the other. Chelsea sits mid table at 8-5-6, though only 11 points out of first place.

In other news, Liverpool FC appears to have forgotten how to score goals... or even know that they need to. This has seen Liverpool drop down, 6 points off of first place. There could currently be 6 teams (when level on games played) within 6 points of first, making for an interesting second half of the season. The Manchesters are atop the table. Leicester City, Tottenham, Liverpool, and Everton are chasing.

 

[rousseau]

I bowed out of a DAZN subscription this year with young tot and the pandemic happening. Has the Pandemic significantly affected the table results? There's something about Coronavirus that makes these seasons feel unofficial, with an asterisk, so it's hard to take them as seriously.

I might buy a monthly pass to DAZN to catch the Superbowl, so I may watch a few premier league games while I have access.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The oddest affect in the US is that with limited to no attendance, the EPL has spread out the fixtures so they could all be broadcasted... which works in the UK. In the US, NBCSN has other stuff to show. So fewer games have been available in the US. I haven't watched a lot of soccer this season, maybe 5 Liverpool games.

Liverpool won the title last year after having the best season ever (with an asterisk) and two of the best back to back seasons ever, and it was so hollow. First world problems.

 

[TSwizzle]

The oddest affect in the US is that with limited to no attendance, the EPL has spread out the fixtures so they could all be broadcasted... which works in the UK. In the US, NBCSN has other stuff to show. So fewer games have been available in the US. I haven't watched a lot of soccer this season, maybe 5 Liverpool games.

Eh ? I don't see a shortage of EPL games at all. I've been working from home and there is an EPL game on most days, multiple games a day in fact. I'm sure Peacock streaming will have some of the games also. I think there are two EPL games broadcast on a Saturday and the third game is available by Peacock streaming service. Same on Sunday.

 

[TSwizzle]

Liverpool are back baby !! After a shaky five minute start, Liverpool put in a fine performance to overcome Spurs 1-3. The game was not without controversy as that damned VAR chalked off the Spurs opening goal based on a hair's breadth. Spurs were slack in defense and paid the price. Kane going off injured did not help.

And Man Utd stutter again, falling to bottom club Sheffield Utd 1-2, preventing Man Utd going top.