Some interesting info on the issue of culture holding blacks back

[Loren Pechtel]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html

Observation: Fatherlessness in the community is an accurate prediction of racial differences in outcomes.

This means it can't be things like the schools because both whites and blacks in a community go to the same schools. It's got to be something that varies--and what else qualifies but one's peer group?

 

[Mumbles]

It's odd how the relative lack of father figures (and not simple fathers in the house) has no such effect on any other group...

As well as how you refuse to even glance at the argument that overpolicing, heavy penalties, and the like might have an effect on the number of father figures in a community - something that virtually everyone that discusses justice reform in the US have pointed out repeatedly for decades...

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Same study says black and white women raised at the same wealth levels don't have a difference in income as adults, and the graph even shows black women marginally on top of white women (not statistically significant). What to make of that?

 

[LordKiran]

It's odd how the relative lack of father figures (and not simple fathers in the house) has no such effect on any other group...

As well as how you refuse to even glance at the argument that overpolicing, heavy penalties, and the like might have an effect on the number of father figures in a community - something that virtually everyone that discusses justice reform in the US have pointed out repeatedly for decades...

I'd say it has a far bigger effect on black households given the state's propensity for locking up black men over minor offenses. You can't really blame them when a massive drug epidemic strikes their people and the state's response is punitive measures against the stricken community. Funny how now that it's lots of rich white people the answer seems to be harm reduction for a change. Isn't that fuckin' funny???

 

[dismal]

It's odd how the relative lack of father figures (and not simple fathers in the house) has no such effect on any other group...

As well as how you refuse to even glance at the argument that overpolicing, heavy penalties, and the like might have an effect on the number of father figures in a community - something that virtually everyone that discusses justice reform in the US have pointed out repeatedly for decades...

I'd say it has a far bigger effect on black households given the state's propensity for locking up black men over minor offenses. You can't really blame them when a massive drug epidemic strikes their people and the state's response is punitive measures against the stricken community. Funny how now that it's lots of rich white people the answer seems to be harm reduction for a change. Isn't that fuckin' funny???

A quick review of stats indicates 4.7% of adult black males are incarcerated and 72% of black births are out of wedlock.

I'm not sure how one could explain the other.

 

[LordKiran]

It's odd how the relative lack of father figures (and not simple fathers in the house) has no such effect on any other group...

As well as how you refuse to even glance at the argument that overpolicing, heavy penalties, and the like might have an effect on the number of father figures in a community - something that virtually everyone that discusses justice reform in the US have pointed out repeatedly for decades...

I'd say it has a far bigger effect on black households given the state's propensity for locking up black men over minor offenses. You can't really blame them when a massive drug epidemic strikes their people and the state's response is punitive measures against the stricken community. Funny how now that it's lots of rich white people the answer seems to be harm reduction for a change. Isn't that fuckin' funny???

A quick review of stats indicates 4.7% of adult black males are incarcerated and 72% of black births are out of wedlock.

I'm not sure how one could explain the other.

Things that happen decades ago still impact the present. Eisenhower's decision to install an Iranian puppet to benefit our British allies still has an impact on us today, and that was like 60+ years ago!

 

[Underseer]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html

Observation: Fatherlessness in the community is an accurate prediction of racial differences in outcomes.

This means it can't be things like the schools because both whites and blacks in a community go to the same schools. It's got to be something that varies--and what else qualifies but one's peer group?

And why are you so desperate to explain away[ent]hellip[/ent]

Oh.

Right.

Its just the lack of fathers. Systemic racism isn't a thing and doesn't give you any unfair advantages. All that stuff about racism was just some shit liberals made up as an excuse to take away your unfair advantages. Because goodness forbid you be expected to compete with them on a level playing field.

Once again, white supremacists apply the "soft bigotry of low expectations" to whites as a group.

 

[Mumbles]

It's odd how the relative lack of father figures (and not simple fathers in the house) has no such effect on any other group...

As well as how you refuse to even glance at the argument that overpolicing, heavy penalties, and the like might have an effect on the number of father figures in a community - something that virtually everyone that discusses justice reform in the US have pointed out repeatedly for decades...

I'd say it has a far bigger effect on black households given the state's propensity for locking up black men over minor offenses. You can't really blame them when a massive drug epidemic strikes their people and the state's response is punitive measures against the stricken community. Funny how now that it's lots of rich white people the answer seems to be harm reduction for a change. Isn't that fuckin' funny???

A quick review of stats indicates 4.7% of adult black males are incarcerated and 72% of black births are out of wedlock.

I'm not sure how one could explain the other.

The actual study looked at fathers in the local community, not in individual households.

The study's authors rather strongly suggested that the issue was the number of fathers to counsel black boys on how to navigate through racism - not that racism was not a factor at all.

BTW, I've seen other studies that strongly suggest that family wealth, rather than income, is the primary factor - it may be worth comparing studies in order to get at the bottom of this, but the simple Baghdad Bob denial of bigotry isn't going to cut it.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

The study's authors rather strongly suggested that the issue was the number of fathers to counsel black boys on how to navigate through racism - not that racism was not a factor at all.

Is that also how you explain the total lack of disparity between white and black women in this study (with black women actually doing marginally better)? It is because there is a lack of fathers and not mothers?

Does this make racism a MRA issue? Does it make the gender wage gap between men and women a race issue?

 

[dismal]

A quick review of stats indicates 4.7% of adult black males are incarcerated and 72% of black births are out of wedlock.

I'm not sure how one could explain the other.

Things that happen decades ago still impact the present. Eisenhower's decision to install an Iranian puppet to benefit our British allies still has an impact on us today, and that was like 60+ years ago!

I'm not sure I understand the causal relationship you are asserting.

I get the idea that "if a male parent is in jail, he won't be around to be a child's father".

What I don't get is how you think 4.7% of male adults being in jail (aka 95% of males are not in jail) causes 72% (aka 28% of babies are born to married couples) of births to be out of wedlock.

 

[Jokodo]

It's odd how the relative lack of father figures (and not simple fathers in the house) has no such effect on any other group...

As well as how you refuse to even glance at the argument that overpolicing, heavy penalties, and the like might have an effect on the number of father figures in a community - something that virtually everyone that discusses justice reform in the US have pointed out repeatedly for decades...

I'd say it has a far bigger effect on black households given the state's propensity for locking up black men over minor offenses. You can't really blame them when a massive drug epidemic strikes their people and the state's response is punitive measures against the stricken community. Funny how now that it's lots of rich white people the answer seems to be harm reduction for a change. Isn't that fuckin' funny???

A quick review of stats indicates 4.7% of adult black males are incarcerated and 72% of black births are out of wedlock.

I'm not sure how one could explain the other.

I'm not sure how the rate of out-of-wedlock births is supposed to be indicative of anything at all.

All of Iceland, most of Sweden and Norway, and parts of Estonia, (Eastern) Germany and France have 60%+ births out of of wedlock. Do you believe those areas are practically one big ghetto?



(via this link)

 

[dismal]

A quick review of stats indicates 4.7% of adult black males are incarcerated and 72% of black births are out of wedlock.

I'm not sure how one could explain the other.

I'm not sure how the rate of out-of-wedlock births is supposed to be indicative of anything at all.

All of Iceland, most of Sweden and Norway, and parts of Estonia, (Eastern) Germany and France have 60%+ births out of of wedlock.

That was asserted in the OP, so you should take it up with the asserter.

 

[Jokodo]

A quick review of stats indicates 4.7% of adult black males are incarcerated and 72% of black births are out of wedlock.

I'm not sure how one could explain the other.

I'm not sure how the rate of out-of-wedlock births is supposed to be indicative of anything at all.

All of Iceland, most of Sweden and Norway, and parts of Estonia, (Eastern) Germany and France have 60%+ births out of of wedlock.

That was asserted in the OP, so you should take it up with the asserter.

The OP talks about fatherlessness, you use figures for out of wedlock births. In a world where cohabiting couples exist, the two cannot be equated, so I'm taking it up with you.

 

[Horatio Parker]

I'd guess that black women are less threatening to whites than black men. Hence their relative success with employment and pay.

So black men are doubly screwed. A greater complication to fatherhood than most men face, I'd reckon.

 

[Toni]

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/...cation_server_address=mc17.prod.fire.glassThe

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I'd guess that black women are less threatening to whites than black men. Hence their relative success with employment and pay.

So black men are doubly screwed. A greater complication to fatherhood than most men face, I'd reckon.

So are black women free riding the affirmative action stuff created because of stats on black men's group wealth disparity?

 

[Horatio Parker]

I'd guess that black women are less threatening to whites than black men. Hence their relative success with employment and pay.

So black men are doubly screwed. A greater complication to fatherhood than most men face, I'd reckon.

So are black women free riding the affirmative action stuff created because of stats on black men's group wealth disparity?

Riding? AA created because of stats? WTF?

Black women are beneficiaries of whites being more accepting of them, more willing to hire and pay them. Presumably because whites tend to experience black women as less threatening.

 

[repoman]

It may be because the black boys who are fatherless are more likely to run with assertive bullying male peers to get a sense of masculinity, power and belonging. Ones with fathers already have an "alpha dog" in their lives. White boys also have this effect if fatherless.

Being a young black male who hangs out with the much more criminally associated subsection of black males will necessarily increase your odds of getting caught up in the legal system.

Many other aspects mentioned in other posts are still at play.

Fatherless white boys will probably get into the alt-right, an online gang

 

[Horatio Parker]

It may be because the black boys who are fatherless are more likely to run with assertive bullying male peers to get a sense of masculinity, power and belonging. Ones with fathers already have an "alpha dog" in their lives. White boys also have this effect if fatherless.

Being a young black male who hangs out with the much more criminally associated section of black males with necessarily increase your odds of getting caught up in the legal system.

Many other aspects mentioned in other posts are still at play.

Is it possible that some black males are compensating for a sense of alienation or powerlessness ie low self esteem?

Or are they just determined to git whitey cuz that's how they roll?

 

[repoman]

It may be because the black boys who are fatherless are more likely to run with assertive bullying male peers to get a sense of masculinity, power and belonging. Ones with fathers already have an "alpha dog" in their lives. White boys also have this effect if fatherless.

Being a young black male who hangs out with the much more criminally associated section of black males with necessarily increase your odds of getting caught up in the legal system.

Many other aspects mentioned in other posts are still at play.

Is it possible that some black males are compensating for a sense of alienation or powerlessness ie low self esteem?

Or are they just determined to git whitey cuz that's how they roll?

Dismissing "alienation overcompensation" is very foolish.