Some random questions

[Elixir]

Because that's how you get a perfect 'New' Heaven & Earth.

Ah yes, get rid of the bad guys and everything will be perfect. I am beginning to see the attraction Trump holds for The Faithful.

 

[Politesse]

They get so angry when you (correctly) accuse them of wanting to murder or indefinitely detain their adversaries, because they truly do have infantile mindsets in which object permanence does not play a strong role. When they say they want to "get rid of" the homeless, or "bomb Iran into the stone age" they really do just mean that they want their problems to go away somehow. They haven't thought through and will flat our refuse to think through what happens to their victims once they are out of sight.

Just like Christians don't want to follow the thought all the way through to the conclusion that what their God means by paradise is a place where they live forever, but where their sons and daughters who listened to too many Beatles albums are being justly tortured for eternity. It's not that the thought of their daughter being endlessly raped and tortured by demons who work for their God makes them consciously happy, but that thinking about perfection means not thinking about that. So... they won't.

 

[DBT]

If both heaven and earth - presumably both being perfect at one time - has imperfect or undesirable inhabitants that that must be gotten rid of, what's to stop a constant stream 'undesirables' from emerging as inhabitants become dissatisfied and rebel?

 

[Elixir]

]If both heaven and earth - presumably both being perfect at one time - has imperfect or undesirable inhabitants that that must be gotten rid of, what's to stop a constant stream 'undesirables' from emerging as inhabitants become dissatisfied and rebel?

You mean who’s to stop it!
God’s peeps of course!

 

[DBT]

As on Earth, so in Heaven.

 

[Learner]

Because that's how you get a perfect 'New' Heaven & Earth.

Ah yes, get rid of the bad guys and everything will be perfect. I am beginning to see the attraction Trump holds for The Faithful.

How would you yourself go about it if there were evil bad guys?

To get a little perspective from what I'm getting at. How would Buddah or Confucius or any other peace-guru handle justice for the heinous atrocities done against their victims? Would they be capable without hesitation, despite the feeling of regret, not wanting to meet out punishment, which would be going against the laws of deterrence?

In short: it would require an exceedingly strong character, beyond human, to maintain the upkeep of the laws by keeping to his word/vows) promises ... regardless of how painful and regretful it would be to God (just as it describes in the bible).

I mean... would you instantly demand justice for those victims who were murdered by your own kids?

Humans aren't capable to judge righteously! Never mind comparing moralities.

 

[abaddon]

How would Buddah or Confucius or any other peace-guru handle justice for the heinous atrocities done against their victims? Would they be capable without hesitation, despite the feeling of regret, not wanting to meet out punishment, which would be going against the laws of deterrence?

They didn't see half of humanity as evil so they wouldn't see the situation in the same light. In Buddhism all is innately good and the problem is that being self-centered causes people to be unable to see it. The solution is to offer to everyone a practical means to be less self-centered.

Your sort of christianity has got a strong manichean streak to it. It's a dark, pessimistic view that sees much of God's own creation as hateful and disposable. Whereas Buddhism just wants people to see reality in a kinder light, because they believe how our minds are is how the world is.

 

[Elixir]

How would you yourself go about it if there were evil bad guys?

That’s not hypothetical. There are bad guys and we are them. Don’t you read that book you think a spook wrote? Those ghost writers got a few things right, and that’s one of them.
Personally the way I “go about it” is to first be kind to animals, then hope it carries over to humans. Even the harmfully stupid and superstitious ones.

And you? Do you spend your life identifying Bad Guys and trying to eliminate them?
What a waste. A harmful waste at that.

 

[steve_bank]

Judaism has satan as an agent of God, doing God's will in order to test His Chosen People and carry out the Grand Plan.

If you look at the bible myths as the allegories and metaphors they are, Satan vs God is about the human inner conflict of good versus evil.

Jesus whispering in one ear don't do that, Satan whispering in the other ear go ahead dude!.

In Job God makes a bet with Satan Job's faith can not be broken. Satan rains a shit storm on Job who loses everything. In the end he breaks, but he is restored when he forgives his former friends who turned against him. A fable.

 

[Learner]

How would Buddah or Confucius or any other peace-guru handle justice for the heinous atrocities done against their victims? Would they be capable without hesitation, despite the feeling of regret, not wanting to meet out punishment, which would be going against the laws of deterrence?

They didn't see half of humanity as evil so they wouldn't see the situation in the same light. In Buddhism all is innately good and the problem is that being self-centered causes people to be unable to see it. The solution is to offer to everyone a practical means to be less self-centered.

Sins are forgiven, sinners (including killers) can change/repent, become good according to Christianity.

Your sort of christianity has got a strong manichean streak to it. It's a dark, pessimistic view that sees much of God's own creation as hateful and disposable. Whereas Buddhism just wants people to see reality in a kinder light, because they believe how our minds are is how the world is.

Jesus wants to see the 'kinder light' in everyone. Buddhism unfortunately doesn't deal with the 'dark' realities, looking beyond into the kinder light. Besides, Christianity can have positive effects, depending how one views the faith.

 

[Politesse]

Sins are forgiven,

I thought sins were atoned for by the blood sacrifice of an innocent man, and no other means. Not forgiven. If God is willing or able to simply exercise forgiveness, why send Jesus at all?

 

[Learner]

How would you yourself go about it if there were evil bad guys?

That’s not hypothetical. There are bad guys and we are them. Don’t you read that book you think a spook wrote?

You're a little mixed up. There are those who want to be with God i.e. the ones who will be satisfied and then there are those who will be dissatisfied.

We are the bad guys, sure...but the question is then: do you want to be forgiven for being the bad guy?

Those ghost writers got a few things right, and that’s one of them.
Personally the way I “go about it” is to first be kind to animals, then hope it carries over to humans. Even the harmfully stupid and superstitious ones.

'Love your neighbour and your love your enemies' suddenly came to mind.

And you? Do you spend your life identifying Bad Guys and trying to eliminate them?
What a waste. A harmful waste at that.

No... I'd rather be Christian.

 

[Learner]

Sins are forgiven,

I thought sins were atoned for by the blood sacrifice of an innocent man, and no other means. Not forgiven. If God is willing or able to simply exercise forgiveness, why send Jesus at all?

For clarification so I could give a more appropriate answer.

Are you saying you understand this to mean: people can still murder, hate and steal because of the sacrifice given by Jesus? Repentance comes into it too, here.

 

[Politesse]

Sins are forgiven,

I thought sins were atoned for by the blood sacrifice of an innocent man, and no other means. Not forgiven. If God is willing or able to simply exercise forgiveness, why send Jesus at all?

For clarification so I could give a more appropriate answer.

Are you saying you understand this to mean: people can still murder, hate and steal because of the sacrifice given by Jesus? Repentance comes into it too, here.

People most certainly can and do murder, hate, and steal after becoming Christians. The majority of European history after the 5th century can be summarized as either "and then the Christians invaded somewhere else, raped, murdered, or enslaved the inhabitants, stole all their stuff and used the proceeds to build a stunningly beautiful church" or "sadly, the Christians ran out of foreign targets and began to slaughter one another, so the Pope needed to urgently find some new targets abroad". If that's the fruit of true repentance from acts of murder, hate, and theft, then we have different definitions of the word.

Christ's greatest curse against his future supposed followers was his eschatological promise that "a good tree does not bear bad fruit... by their fruits you will know them".

 

[DBT]

Judaism has satan as an agent of God, doing God's will in order to test His Chosen People and carry out the Grand Plan.

If you look at the bible myths as the allegories and metaphors they are, Satan vs God is about the human inner conflict of good versus evil.

Jesus whispering in one ear don't do that, Satan whispering in the other ear go ahead dude!.

In Job God makes a bet with Satan Job's faith can not be broken. Satan rains a shit storm on Job who loses everything. In the end he breaks, but he is restored when he forgives his former friends who turned against him. A fable.

Yes, a fable, a cautionary tale on the virtue of staying faithful to God, yet the tale has satan not expelled from heaven, not in rebellion, but playing an oppositional role, yet remaining subservient and obedient to God.