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Songs about women not getting enough orgasms

Isn't it great that we humans can keep on getting it on long after we lose our ability to reproduce!

Sex isn't only about reproduction. It's not that in any primates. It's primarily a way to form emotional bonds between people. The reproduction is just bonus. The evidence is that we can and do have sex even when the female isn't able to reproduce.

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I think you're just completely wrong about the readers of Fifty Shades. If all women agree on what a shit book it was, how the hell did it become one of the best selling books of all time? I don't think the evidence is on your side here.

Notoriety often makes best sellers. I was volunteering in an op-shop when these books came out. The flood of them that were donated suggests that not many people thought it was worth keeping. The few people I talked to about it didn't talk about the ideas in it or other aspects, like literary value. They just wanted to make sure everybody knew they'd read it.

It's one of the best selling books of all time. Of all time. Notoriety alone can't do that.
 
Sex isn't only about reproduction. It's not that in any primates. It's primarily a way to form emotional bonds between people. The reproduction is just bonus. The evidence is that we can and do have sex even when the female isn't able to reproduce.

- - - Updated - - -

I think you're just completely wrong about the readers of Fifty Shades. If all women agree on what a shit book it was, how the hell did it become one of the best selling books of all time? I don't think the evidence is on your side here.

Notoriety often makes best sellers. I was volunteering in an op-shop when these books came out. The flood of them that were donated suggests that not many people thought it was worth keeping. The few people I talked to about it didn't talk about the ideas in it or other aspects, like literary value. They just wanted to make sure everybody knew they'd read it.

It's one of the best selling books of all time. Of all time. Notoriety alone can't do that.

Oh, really? Then explain the massive worldwide sales of The Bible, most copies of which never get opened, much less read.
 
It's one of the best selling books of all time. Of all time. Notoriety alone can't do that.

Oh, really? Then explain the massive worldwide sales of The Bible, most copies of which never get opened, much less read.

Because some people think it is high status to give the impression to have read it, or to be reading it. I think the opposite can be said of FSG :)
 
Sex isn't only about reproduction. It's not that in any primates. It's primarily a way to form emotional bonds between people. The reproduction is just bonus. The evidence is that we can and do have sex even when the female isn't able to reproduce.

- - - Updated - - -

I think you're just completely wrong about the readers of Fifty Shades. If all women agree on what a shit book it was, how the hell did it become one of the best selling books of all time? I don't think the evidence is on your side here.

Notoriety often makes best sellers. I was volunteering in an op-shop when these books came out. The flood of them that were donated suggests that not many people thought it was worth keeping. The few people I talked to about it didn't talk about the ideas in it or other aspects, like literary value. They just wanted to make sure everybody knew they'd read it.

It's one of the best selling books of all time. Of all time. Notoriety alone can't do that.

Oh, really? Then explain the massive worldwide sales of The Bible, most copies of which never get opened, much less read.

Easy, groups that seek to expand Christianity's influence buy bibles by the freighter load and then give them out to random people or to groups that will use them for this purpose. We must also consider that churches ideally will have enough bibles for most of the attendees to follow along, creating a demand for bibles for people who might not actually be interested in owning one directly.

Fun fact: The bible is the most often stolen book in the world.
 
Sex isn't only about reproduction. It's not that in any primates. It's primarily a way to form emotional bonds between people. The reproduction is just bonus. The evidence is that we can and do have sex even when the female isn't able to reproduce.

- - - Updated - - -

I think you're just completely wrong about the readers of Fifty Shades. If all women agree on what a shit book it was, how the hell did it become one of the best selling books of all time? I don't think the evidence is on your side here.

Notoriety often makes best sellers. I was volunteering in an op-shop when these books came out. The flood of them that were donated suggests that not many people thought it was worth keeping. The few people I talked to about it didn't talk about the ideas in it or other aspects, like literary value. They just wanted to make sure everybody knew they'd read it.

It's one of the best selling books of all time. Of all time. Notoriety alone can't do that.

Oh, really? Then explain the massive worldwide sales of The Bible, most copies of which never get opened, much less read.

Easy, groups that seek to expand Christianity's influence buy bibles by the freighter load and then give them out to random people or to groups that will use them for this purpose. We must also consider that churches ideally will have enough bibles for most of the attendees to follow along, creating a demand for bibles for people who might not actually be interested in owning one directly.

Fun fact: The bible is the most often stolen book in the world.

Sure, we've all probably seen Gideon's Bibles. But even I have 3 or 4 family bibles sitting in my house right now.

So far, I haven't been to a single church that provided bibles to its congregants. Even the Mormon missionaries don't pass them out. It's been decades, literally, but sure, I remember some groups passing out tiny tiny extremely abridged versions of the new testament on street corners. But not for decades.
 
Sex isn't only about reproduction. It's not that in any primates. It's primarily a way to form emotional bonds between people. The reproduction is just bonus. The evidence is that we can and do have sex even when the female isn't able to reproduce.

- - - Updated - - -

I think you're just completely wrong about the readers of Fifty Shades. If all women agree on what a shit book it was, how the hell did it become one of the best selling books of all time? I don't think the evidence is on your side here.

Notoriety often makes best sellers. I was volunteering in an op-shop when these books came out. The flood of them that were donated suggests that not many people thought it was worth keeping. The few people I talked to about it didn't talk about the ideas in it or other aspects, like literary value. They just wanted to make sure everybody knew they'd read it.

It's one of the best selling books of all time. Of all time. Notoriety alone can't do that.

Oh, really? Then explain the massive worldwide sales of The Bible, most copies of which never get opened, much less read.

Easy, groups that seek to expand Christianity's influence buy bibles by the freighter load and then give them out to random people or to groups that will use them for this purpose. We must also consider that churches ideally will have enough bibles for most of the attendees to follow along, creating a demand for bibles for people who might not actually be interested in owning one directly.

Fun fact: The bible is the most often stolen book in the world.

Sure, we've all probably seen Gideon's Bibles. But even I have 3 or 4 family bibles sitting in my house right now.

So far, I haven't been to a single church that provided bibles to its congregants. Even the Mormon missionaries don't pass them out. It's been decades, literally, but sure, I remember some groups passing out tiny tiny extremely abridged versions of the new testament on street corners. But not for decades.

Complimentary bibles were common in any church I would visit when I was little. I remember sitting there bored out of my mind, flipping through the thin pages trying to occupy myself. As for people passing out little bibles? That's still a thing, it happened around my highschool on more than one occassion. Maybe living in AZ at the time had something to do with it.
 
Sex isn't only about reproduction. It's not that in any primates. It's primarily a way to form emotional bonds between people. The reproduction is just bonus. The evidence is that we can and do have sex even when the female isn't able to reproduce.

- - - Updated - - -

I think you're just completely wrong about the readers of Fifty Shades. If all women agree on what a shit book it was, how the hell did it become one of the best selling books of all time? I don't think the evidence is on your side here.

Notoriety often makes best sellers. I was volunteering in an op-shop when these books came out. The flood of them that were donated suggests that not many people thought it was worth keeping. The few people I talked to about it didn't talk about the ideas in it or other aspects, like literary value. They just wanted to make sure everybody knew they'd read it.

It's one of the best selling books of all time. Of all time. Notoriety alone can't do that.

Oh, really? Then explain the massive worldwide sales of The Bible, most copies of which never get opened, much less read.

Easy, groups that seek to expand Christianity's influence buy bibles by the freighter load and then give them out to random people or to groups that will use them for this purpose. We must also consider that churches ideally will have enough bibles for most of the attendees to follow along, creating a demand for bibles for people who might not actually be interested in owning one directly.

Fun fact: The bible is the most often stolen book in the world.

Sure, we've all probably seen Gideon's Bibles. But even I have 3 or 4 family bibles sitting in my house right now.

So far, I haven't been to a single church that provided bibles to its congregants. Even the Mormon missionaries don't pass them out. It's been decades, literally, but sure, I remember some groups passing out tiny tiny extremely abridged versions of the new testament on street corners. But not for decades.

Complimentary bibles were common in any church I would visit when I was little. I remember sitting there bored out of my mind, flipping through the thin pages trying to occupy myself. As for people passing out little bibles? That's still a thing, it happened around my highschool on more than one occassion. Maybe living in AZ at the time had something to do with it.

Hymnals in the pews? Yes. Bibles? not so much. Although I believe adults were expected to bring their own. It was a big deal to be given a bible. And family bibles were often (and may still be) regarded as containing legitimate family documents. It's where births, deaths, and marriages were recorded, especially prior to the days when most people were born in and died in hospitals.
 
Is this the derail least in keeping with the OP in the history of the board?
 
Sex isn't only about reproduction. It's not that in any primates. It's primarily a way to form emotional bonds between people. The reproduction is just bonus. The evidence is that we can and do have sex even when the female isn't able to reproduce.

No shit. :D It's almost insulting that you would think a 67 year old nurse would think that sex is primarily about reproduction. Did you forget that I mentioned that two of my 80 year old patients were trying to have sex. Unfortunately, the guys didn't have any Viagra and they needed it. But, sex is about a whole lot more than intercourse, so maybe there is hope. :D And I admire bonobos so much that I even contribute a little money to the Bonobo Conservation Initiative.

Now can we please stop talking about bibles? I gave them up when I was about 19, and if I should ever want to read one, ew, I can find just about any of the many different versions right here on the Internet. :tongue:
 
I think it says a lot, too, but not what you may want it to mean. 50 Shades of Grey was about as far from genuine BDSM writing as it is possible to get. It was nothing more than the usual "romance" novel formula with a little bit of pseudo-kink added for notoriety. All that bad boy Mr. Grey needed was the love of a good woman to turn him right around. :rolleyes: And frankly, if anyone was reading that rot because they genuinely wanted to explore BDSM, Fifty Shades is worse than bad porn. It is downright dangerous as an "educational tool"

That wasn't my point. My point is that a lot of women bought that and got turned on by it. Step 1 is figuring out what turns you on. Step 2 is figuring out how to do it safely. Both physically and psychologically. Fifty Shades of Grey seems to have helped women with the first part. I'm just basing that on sales figures of the book.

I agree that it's a bad ideal for BDSM. The BDSM in that book was just sexual assault and rape. The "consent" was extorted. It also rests on the old trope that people are into BDSM because they've been psychologically damaged somehow. Yet, when researchers study it people into BDSM haven't been more traumatised than people in general.

I still don't have a problem with the book. Whatever helps us to know ourselves better, I'm all for it. Ignorance is NOT bliss IMHO

Except that the book IS utter ignorance, and didn't help anyone genuinely learn anything. More to the point, BECAUSE the book is such complete rot, you are way off base in your assumption that Toni is some sort of prude because she thinks the book is bullshit, too.
 
That wasn't my point. My point is that a lot of women bought that and got turned on by it. Step 1 is figuring out what turns you on. Step 2 is figuring out how to do it safely. Both physically and psychologically. Fifty Shades of Grey seems to have helped women with the first part. I'm just basing that on sales figures of the book.

I agree that it's a bad ideal for BDSM. The BDSM in that book was just sexual assault and rape. The "consent" was extorted. It also rests on the old trope that people are into BDSM because they've been psychologically damaged somehow. Yet, when researchers study it people into BDSM haven't been more traumatised than people in general.

I still don't have a problem with the book. Whatever helps us to know ourselves better, I'm all for it. Ignorance is NOT bliss IMHO

Except that the book IS utter ignorance, and didn't help anyone genuinely learn anything. More to the point, BECAUSE the book is such complete rot, you are way off base in your assumption that Toni is some sort of prude because she thinks the book is bullshit, too.

How do you know it didn't help anyone learn anything about their sexuality? Anecdotally I know of one woman who thought the book was the best ever thing that had ever happened to her. It's her second most favourite book ever. Right after Twilight. People are different.

I'm not saying that Toni is a prude. I just think she's not fully thought through her position.

People can learn lots of valuable things about themselves from bad books. Step one is figuring out what turns you on. Step two is figuring out a way to get it in a way that's realistic, and how to do it safely. FSG only deals with the first part.

I agree that FSG is horrendous manual to guide anybody into a BDSM lifestyle. But those books hasn't made any claims to be that.

I find it odd that we think that FSG is the worst book ever for not representing sexuality realistically, but we give Spiderman a free pass for not representing violence and gravity in a realistic and scientific manner.

In the Illiad Akilles is a super human demi-god super-warrior. Not realistic. But he allows Priam to come and get the body of his dead son, Hector, so he can give his son a dignified burial. He had every opportunity to kill Priam, the leader of the enemy. But didn't. In spite of not being realistic the book can teach us about forgiveness. The lesson, human emotions aren't logical and we're more complex creatures than we often assume.

In FSG Grey basically extorts sex out of Anastasia and repeatedly rapes her. As a reader we're supposed to be horrified. But Anastasia is totally into it and is turned on by it. The lesson, human emotions aren't logical and we're more complex creatures than we often assume, or like.

One reading is that FSG defends and justifies rape. It's a totally fair analysis, but that would be a shallow reading IMHO, and won't tell us the real reason why so many bought it and liked it.

I also think FSG is a shit book FYI.
 
Except that the book IS utter ignorance, and didn't help anyone genuinely learn anything. More to the point, BECAUSE the book is such complete rot, you are way off base in your assumption that Toni is some sort of prude because she thinks the book is bullshit, too.

How do you know it didn't help anyone learn anything about their sexuality? Anecdotally I know of one woman who thought the book was the best ever thing that had ever happened to her. It's her second most favourite book ever. Right after Twilight. People are different.

Well, enough said. You realize that FSG started out as Twilight fan fic, right? Among my friends and acquaintances who are fans of FSG, they were into Twilight. Me? If I am feeling into vampire lit, I'd rather go Anne Rice.

I'm not saying that Toni is a prude. I just think she's not fully thought through her position.

Hahahahahahahahahaha! Ha! What? Because I don't agree with you?

People can learn lots of valuable things about themselves from bad books. Step one is figuring out what turns you on. Step two is figuring out a way to get it in a way that's realistic, and how to do it safely. FSG only deals with the first part.

Indeed, people can learn a lot about a lot of things from even bad books. One of the things that I have learned from this discussion is that a lot of people think that it is the rough sex/bondage that some women find titillating. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that it has almost nothing about sex and everything to do with being pursued by an unimaginably wealthy man who is sexually much more experienced and chose a young, innocent, virginal, English lit major and pursued her relentlessly and only her love and very mild standing up to the guy was able to cure him of his evil ways and heal his terrible wounds caused by an older, evil woman who took advantage of him!

I agree that FSG is horrendous manual to guide anybody into a BDSM lifestyle. But those books hasn't made any claims to be that.
No, the books didn't claim that. You sure seemed to take it that way.
I find it odd that we think that FSG is the worst book ever for not representing sexuality realistically, but we give Spiderman a free pass for not representing violence and gravity in a realistic and scientific manner.

More people are going to be inclined to try to act out some of the scenes in FSG than swing from buildings on...fake spider web.

In the Illiad Akilles is a super human demi-god super-warrior. Not realistic. But he allows Priam to come and get the body of his dead son, Hector, so he can give his son a dignified burial. He had every opportunity to kill Priam, the leader of the enemy. But didn't. In spite of not being realistic the book can teach us about forgiveness. The lesson, human emotions aren't logical and we're more complex creatures than we often assume.

WTF? Look, we all assume you're better read than having some passing acquaintance with FSG.

In FSG Grey basically extorts sex out of Anastasia and repeatedly rapes her. As a reader we're supposed to be horrified. But Anastasia is totally into it and is turned on by it. The lesson, human emotions aren't logical and we're more complex creatures than we often assume, or like.

Wrong on all accounts.

One reading is that FSG defends and justifies rape. It's a totally fair analysis, but that would be a shallow reading IMHO, and won't tell us the real reason why so many bought it and liked it.

No, it's not a fair analysis except for those already inclined to believe that rape is justifiable--and that women secretly like it.

Personally, I think that if Grey were an automechanic or a shoe salesman, the books wouldn't have made it to print, no matter how attractive he supposedly was.

I also think FSG is a shit book FYI.

Uh huh.
 
How do you know it didn't help anyone learn anything about their sexuality? Anecdotally I know of one woman who thought the book was the best ever thing that had ever happened to her. It's her second most favourite book ever. Right after Twilight. People are different.

Well, enough said. You realize that FSG started out as Twilight fan fic, right? Among my friends and acquaintances who are fans of FSG, they were into Twilight. Me? If I am feeling into vampire lit, I'd rather go Anne Rice...

Who, ironically enough, also writes halfway decent BDSM fiction :D
 
Indeed, people can learn a lot about a lot of things from even bad books. One of the things that I have learned from this discussion is that a lot of people think that it is the rough sex/bondage that some women find titillating. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that it has almost nothing about sex and everything to do with being pursued by an unimaginably wealthy man who is sexually much more experienced and chose a young, innocent, virginal, English lit major and pursued her relentlessly and only her love and very mild standing up to the guy was able to cure him of his evil ways and heal his terrible wounds caused by an older, evil woman who took advantage of him!

Yep! Exactly the same trope of every crappy "romance" novel out there, without the stigma of "romance" novels because it's oh-so-edgy :rolleyes:

Seriously, anyone who actually thinks women in general were finding their inner kinky side from that stupid series really doesn't understand the whole "romance" novel genre

Personally, I think that if Grey were an automechanic or a shoe salesman, the books wouldn't have made it to print, no matter how attractive he supposedly was.

Agree.
 
Well, enough said. You realize that FSG started out as Twilight fan fic, right? Among my friends and acquaintances who are fans of FSG, they were into Twilight. Me? If I am feeling into vampire lit, I'd rather go Anne Rice...

Who, ironically enough, also writes halfway decent BDSM fiction :D

Yep. Much more erotic, not to mention much better written.
 
Well, enough said. You realize that FSG started out as Twilight fan fic, right? Among my friends and acquaintances who are fans of FSG, they were into Twilight. Me? If I am feeling into vampire lit, I'd rather go Anne Rice.

You clearly have better taste in books. But that's not the topic.

Hahahahahahahahahaha! Ha! What? Because I don't agree with you?

No, because of your theory that all the people who bought FSG didn't learn anything of their own sexuality because of it.

I think there's no book in history that has introduced more people to BDSM than that book. We can think what we will of that. But talking to new people in the scene, this is a topic that keeps re-appearing. Then they most often go right into talking about how bad it is. But that's not a contradiction.

People can learn lots of valuable things about themselves from bad books. Step one is figuring out what turns you on. Step two is figuring out a way to get it in a way that's realistic, and how to do it safely. FSG only deals with the first part.

Indeed, people can learn a lot about a lot of things from even bad books. One of the things that I have learned from this discussion is that a lot of people think that it is the rough sex/bondage that some women find titillating. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that it has almost nothing about sex and everything to do with being pursued by an unimaginably wealthy man who is sexually much more experienced and chose a young, innocent, virginal, English lit major and pursued her relentlessly and only her love and very mild standing up to the guy was able to cure him of his evil ways and heal his terrible wounds caused by an older, evil woman who took advantage of him!

I think there's more to it. People often want a socially accepted excuse (in their own heads) before daring to peer into this forbidden box. BDSM is mostly just playing around with various taboos. People mostly like it because it feels wrong in various ways. Most often in harmless and cute ways.

All the stuff you're listing is things that allow readers to tell themselves that there's a valid excuse to get turned on by it in spite of not being into BDSM. But they are. They just haven't admitted it to themselves.

And of course, everybody would be into it if the setting is context would be perfect. It deals with too universal human traits not to. The reason why most people still aren't is of course down to practicality and the degree as to which they need to make an effort. I think that's what the popularity of FSG proves.

I agree that FSG is horrendous manual to guide anybody into a BDSM lifestyle. But those books hasn't made any claims to be that.

No, the books didn't claim that. You sure seemed to take it that way.

I don't understand what you are rejecting or affirming here.



I find it odd that we think that FSG is the worst book ever for not representing sexuality realistically, but we give Spiderman a free pass for not representing violence and gravity in a realistic and scientific manner.

More people are going to be inclined to try to act out some of the scenes in FSG than swing from buildings on...fake spider web.

Don't agree. But so what? That's how we learn. I've had awful sex many times because I got the idea that I was into something when I really wasn't. When it comes to sex there's only one way to find out. Well... mostly. Some of that is pretty clearly on the "no"-list. But a lot of it is on the "maybe"-list.

Also, where were you when I was 10? You could have saved me so many bruises and trips to hospitals. At some point I managed to convince myself I was a monkey from watching nature shows. That didn't end well.

One reading is that FSG defends and justifies rape. It's a totally fair analysis, but that would be a shallow reading IMHO, and won't tell us the real reason why so many bought it and liked it.

No, it's not a fair analysis except for those already inclined to believe that rape is justifiable--and that women secretly like it.

Personally, I think that if Grey were an automechanic or a shoe salesman, the books wouldn't have made it to print, no matter how attractive he supposedly was.

Don't forget his perfect "Adonis" physique.

So what do you think FSG was about, and why it was popular?
 
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No, because of your theory that all the people who bought FSG didn't learn anything of their own sexuality because of it.

Not exactly what I said. In fact, I stated that it was indeed possible to learn something even from very bad writing.

My guess is that the very young (ages 14 and under) readers of FSG perhaps --and I mean: perhaps--first learned of BDSM through FSG. Older than that? I would find that astonishing. Keep in mind I was raised a fairly sheltered small town girl from the middle of nowhere on the northern edge of the bible belt, a generation or more before you and long before the internet. I'm pretty sure I would have gafawed pretty hard at FSG back then. If I hadn't gotten bored before the end of the first chapter.

But hey, I (kinda) get the whole 'you are the first one to make me feel this way' appeal or at least that it's a thing for some people, and if that pretense turns you on, then good for you.

I think there's no book in history that has introduced more people to BDSM than that book. We can think what we will of that. But talking to new people in the scene, this is a topic that keeps re-appearing. Then they most often go right into talking about how bad it is. But that's not a contradiction.

And I think that you are one of those people who doesn't really get how long people have been fucking or the tremendous variety of ways that people have been doing it for millennia before you were born.

Look, what I think is that FSG is a pop culture fad, and frankly, one that's pretty faded in the US. It's a reference point at a bar or party, just as for some people, talking about LOTR is a reference point or Star Wars or Star Trek. Because it is/was (in the US) a trending bit of pop culture, it's a pretty easy way to start a certain kind of conversation with someone you don't know well. Probably in a bar. It's silly as even pop-lit and bad as an intro to BDSM. It's all kinds of badly written fantasy--and I used to read my share of bodice rippers back in the day when I was too poor to have a television and too far from the nearest library to walk and pick up a decent book very often and so relied on the occasional bodice ripper from the local drug store on the corner.

I think it is the fantasy: a beautiful, worldly, sexually experienced and insanely rich, damaged man falls inexplicably in love with a very average English Lit major and she heals him through the magic of her pure pure love. The details are actually very cursory and not well done at all, even the high points of the plot. The only explanation I can come up with for its success (book series/films) is that the internet and mass media has done a tremendous disservice to kids' developing appreciation for good writing and literature.



People can learn lots of valuable things about themselves from bad books. Step one is figuring out what turns you on. Step two is figuring out a way to get it in a way that's realistic, and how to do it safely. FSG only deals with the first part.

Indeed, people can learn a lot about a lot of things from even bad books.

See: I wrote that people can learn a lot from bad books.


I think there's more to it. People often want a socially accepted excuse (in their own heads) before daring to peer into this forbidden box. BDSM is mostly just playing around with various taboos. People mostly like it because it feels wrong in various ways. Most often in harmless and cute ways.

I don't really agree. I think that BDSM is about the very close association of pain/pleasure on one level and also about relinquishing any responsibility for pleasure: yours or your partners, assuming you are the submissive. And also about anger. And power. I realize that for some people, those are powerful turn ons. But they aren't universally so.

All the stuff you're listing is things that allow readers to tell themselves that there's a valid excuse to get turned on by it in spite of not being into BDSM. But they are. They just haven't admitted it to themselves.

Look, you clearly didn't read the link I made to the blog about the books. If you had, you'd notice that the sex is never once described. It's beside the point in a way. The BDSM is rather beside the point except that it's sex. It could be any other kind of sex in that setting. The BDSM just gave it a bit of notoriety and grabbed the attention of some publishers and film makers, as if it were new or original or...of any decent quality at all.

And of course, everybody would be into it if the setting is context would be perfect. It deals with too universal human traits not to. The reason why most people still aren't is of course down to practicality and the degree as to which they need to make an effort. I think that's what the popularity of FSG proves.


Say what? I honestly don't think I'm following. It seems to me that you think that everyone is secretly into BDSM and just wants an excuse to admit it? No. They're not. Honestly. Another thing is that a fantasy is one thing and might be a big turn on. Making that fantasy reality can be a terrible turn off/abhorrent.

I agree that FSG is horrendous manual to guide anybody into a BDSM lifestyle. But those books hasn't made any claims to be that.

No, the books didn't claim that. You sure seemed to take it that way.

You seem to see it as a gateway/intro. I don't. At least not for anyone over the age of 14, if that old.

Also, where were you when I was 10? You could have saved me so many bruises and trips to hospitals. At some point I managed to convince myself I was a monkey from watching nature shows. That didn't end well.

Probably trying to keep my own children from doing too much damage re-enacting scenes from Star Wars or LOTR or GI Joe.

When I was 10, I spent my summers literally swinging on grape vines, if not through a jungle, through a nice woods.

Don't forget his perfect "Adonis" physique.
Mentioned.

So what do you think FSG was about, and why it was popular?

Making money.

There are virtually no romantic movies made any more. This was a romance. It had all the elements: a beautiful (but doesn't know it) and very bright, well educated but ordinary young woman by total accident is brought into contact with an impossibly beautiful, impossibly wealthy and powerful, yet sadly, damaged! slightly older and much more experienced man who instantly is drawn to her! She heals his damage through her (mild) insistence that he not (continue to) hurt her physically, meanwhile traveling to all sorts of exotic locations, in beautiful apartments, with fabulous wardrobes. He falls in love with her, cannot do without her! She leaves! He fetches! She loves him back! And sex. The sex is for titillation only.

Really, it's a low rent and much less interesting and well done To Catch a Thief, with some mild kink thrown in to take the place of any thinking at all. Some minor switch ups: Grace Kelly is fabulously wealthy in To Catch a Thief and does more of the pursuing. Also, To Catch a Thief has a bit of humor thrown in. Oh, and much better acting to go along with the much better writing.
 
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