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Special Counsel John Durham Exonerates Donald Trump of “Russiagate”


You got suckered. Taken in. Sold a bill of goods. Millions of people still think if given the chance, Fragilego Mussolini would get right back in there and "drain the swamp" for good. Because admitting you got swindled is hard. So instead (to echo what Jimmy said above), you try to paint Trump as the real victim here. He's not.
It is hard to admit you have been swindled no argument. But (for me at least) its more about fear than it is ego. Because if they can do it to a post POTUS, they can do it to me 100x better. I don't want to live in country where you are in constant fear they will lock you up and throw away the key if you happened to offend the wrong person working for the federal government.
So, taking classified documents from the White House that don’t belong to him, claiming that he declassified them just by taking them, being asked to return them, refusing to do so, being subpoenaed to return them, giving some back but keeping others while having his lawyers lie that all have been returned, possibly having them moved around at his residence, and possibly shown to unknown people without proper clearance is just a simple case of “offending the wrong person in government”? Therefore it’s just a whimsical political persecution that would be hundred times worse for an average person? This is contortionist level logical reasoning to not admit that Trump actually violated the law and should be held to account if we are to continue to claim that no one is above the law in this country. Rapture-like cult, indeed!
 

Four years later, Durham has nothing to show for his time.

.
It is interesting how one side says this.... yet then the other side claims there is the evidence to expel Adam Schiff over the Durham report.



Makes one wonder how most Americans could have any clue where the real truth lies.
 

You got suckered. Taken in. Sold a bill of goods. Millions of people still think if given the chance, Fragilego Mussolini would get right back in there and "drain the swamp" for good. Because admitting you got swindled is hard. So instead (to echo what Jimmy said above), you try to paint Trump as the real victim here. He's not.
It is hard to admit you have been swindled no argument. But (for me at least) its more about fear than it is ego. Because if they can do it to a post POTUS, they can do it to me 100x better. I don't want to live in country where you are in constant fear they will lock you up and throw away the key if you happened to offend the wrong person working for the federal government.
So, taking classified documents from the White House that don’t belong to him, claiming that he declassified them just by taking them, being asked to return them, refusing to do so, being subpoenaed to return them, giving some back but keeping others while having his lawyers lie that all have been returned, possibly having them moved around at his residence, and possibly shown to unknown people without proper clearance is just a simple case of “offending the wrong person in government”? Therefore it’s just a whimsical political persecution that would be hundred times worse for an average person? This is contortionist level logical reasoning to not admit that Trump actually violated the law and should be held to account if we are to continue to claim that no one is above the law in this country. Rapture-like cult, indeed!
While you are wondering about logical reasoning perhaps there are some question you might ask yourself as well? How did the FBI know where the documents were in the first place? And if everyone knew what the documents were and where they were, why was the search conducted at night? If Trump was unwilling to release said documents, why not just go in the place during daylight hours and not make such a spectacle out of it? And if these were such critical classified documents why did not the secret service do something to prevent this in the first place? The secret service need not prevent a POTUS from committing a crime but they are also American citizens and members of the federal government who should care about a POTUS respect for the law.

And finally this question. Since the search was conducted at night, how do we know what the documents really were and that others were not planted during the raid?
 

You got suckered. Taken in. Sold a bill of goods. Millions of people still think if given the chance, Fragilego Mussolini would get right back in there and "drain the swamp" for good. Because admitting you got swindled is hard. So instead (to echo what Jimmy said above), you try to paint Trump as the real victim here. He's not.
It is hard to admit you have been swindled no argument. But (for me at least) its more about fear than it is ego. Because if they can do it to a post POTUS, they can do it to me 100x better. I don't want to live in country where you are in constant fear they will lock you up and throw away the key if you happened to offend the wrong person working for the federal government.
So, taking classified documents from the White House that don’t belong to him, claiming that he declassified them just by taking them, being asked to return them, refusing to do so, being subpoenaed to return them, giving some back but keeping others while having his lawyers lie that all have been returned, possibly having them moved around at his residence, and possibly shown to unknown people without proper clearance is just a simple case of “offending the wrong person in government”? Therefore it’s just a whimsical political persecution that would be hundred times worse for an average person? This is contortionist level logical reasoning to not admit that Trump actually violated the law and should be held to account if we are to continue to claim that no one is above the law in this country. Rapture-like cult, indeed!
While you are wondering about logical reasoning perhaps there are some question you might ask yourself as well? How did the FBI know where the documents were in the first place? And if everyone knew what the documents were and where they were, why was the search conducted at night? If Trump was unwilling to release said documents, why not just go in the place during daylight hours and not make such a spectacle out of it? And if these were such critical classified documents why did not the secret service do something to prevent this in the first place? The secret service need not prevent a POTUS from committing a crime but they are also American citizens and members of the federal government who should care about a POTUS respect for the law.
Those may be good questions but they are beside the point and don’t counter anything I listed.

Certainly the government appears to have a problem keeping classified documents under wrap but that does not excuse anyone from stealing them or refusing to return them when asked.
 

You got suckered. Taken in. Sold a bill of goods. Millions of people still think if given the chance, Fragilego Mussolini would get right back in there and "drain the swamp" for good. Because admitting you got swindled is hard. So instead (to echo what Jimmy said above), you try to paint Trump as the real victim here. He's not.
It is hard to admit you have been swindled no argument. But (for me at least) its more about fear than it is ego. Because if they can do it to a post POTUS, they can do it to me 100x better. I don't want to live in country where you are in constant fear they will lock you up and throw away the key if you happened to offend the wrong person working for the federal government.
What you don't seem to grasp here is the sheer mountain of leeway that was given to him as the former President.

If it were you who was in possession of state national security secrets, the National Archive wouldn't call you up and politely say "can you pretty please give those documents back? In six months? No. Okay...8 months. Thank you so much, sir."

No, the FBI would show up to your house right away. And they wouldn't calmly negotiate with your staff and ask to be let in. They'd bash the door down and search the place, and take whatever they needed. If you weren't home at the time, they'd send agents to find you (they are very good at that) and would arrest you immediately. There wouldn't be any negotiation there either (unless you barricaded yourself in a hotel room or such). You'd be cuffed and put in a van, and you'd be in a federal facility in short order. You'd also likely be denied bail as they'd treat you (rightly) as a national security threat and a flight risk.

None of that happened to Trump. He was treated with kid gloves despite committing crimes that would land a normal private citizen in a federal super max prison for the rest of their life. It has nothing to do with "offending the wrong person." He broke multiple laws, may have put people's lives at risk, and possibly exposed classified national security info to foreign actors.
 

You got suckered. Taken in. Sold a bill of goods. Millions of people still think if given the chance, Fragilego Mussolini would get right back in there and "drain the swamp" for good. Because admitting you got swindled is hard. So instead (to echo what Jimmy said above), you try to paint Trump as the real victim here. He's not.
It is hard to admit you have been swindled no argument. But (for me at least) its more about fear than it is ego. Because if they can do it to a post POTUS, they can do it to me 100x better. I don't want to live in country where you are in constant fear they will lock you up and throw away the key if you happened to offend the wrong person working for the federal government.
So, taking classified documents from the White House that don’t belong to him, claiming that he declassified them just by taking them, being asked to return them, refusing to do so, being subpoenaed to return them, giving some back but keeping others while having his lawyers lie that all have been returned, possibly having them moved around at his residence, and possibly shown to unknown people without proper clearance is just a simple case of “offending the wrong person in government”? Therefore it’s just a whimsical political persecution that would be hundred times worse for an average person? This is contortionist level logical reasoning to not admit that Trump actually violated the law and should be held to account if we are to continue to claim that no one is above the law in this country. Rapture-like cult, indeed!
While you are wondering about logical reasoning perhaps there are some question you might ask yourself as well? How did the FBI know where the documents were in the first place? And if everyone knew what the documents were and where they were, why was the search conducted at night? If Trump was unwilling to release said documents, why not just go in the place during daylight hours and not make such a spectacle out of it? And if these were such critical classified documents why did not the secret service do something to prevent this in the first place? The secret service need not prevent a POTUS from committing a crime but they are also American citizens and members of the federal government who should care about a POTUS respect for the law.

And finally this question. Since the search was conducted at night, how do we know what the documents really were and that others were not planted during the raid?
The answer to your first question actually answers the last one. When classified material on the level of "the President needs to see this" is taken from wherever it has been filed away, there is a chain of custody established. Where is file number X-14 on human intelligence in Syria? "That was signed out to agent Smith at 11:45am on Tuesday March 3rd." When it isn't returned, agent Smith is going to be questioned. Who did he give it to? Then that person is questioned. Who did they give it to? The President has it? Where? It was put in a box? What kind of box, where is it stored, who has access, and we're sending someone to retrieve it right away.

They knew what was missing, and had a pretty good idea of where it was because they took the time to question every single person who had hands or eyes on the documents. They likely waited until President Sticky Hands was away because they didn't want it to be an even bigger spectacle, and it is worth noting that Trump and the right wing shout machine is the one making it into a spectacle. They call it a "raid" and make it seem like the FBI kicked the doors down and held everyone at gunpoint while they trashed the place.

That's not what happened. They were allowed into the property by the Secret Service. It was not a "raid." It was a thorough search overseen by the Secret Service as well as Trump's attorney. It was nothing like an episode of "Cops." (Though it would have been hilarious to see him hauled out of the house shirtless and yelling at his wife.)
 
Four years later, Durham has nothing to show for his time.
It is interesting how one side says this.... yet then the other side claims there is the evidence to expel Adam Schiff over the Durham report.



Makes one wonder how most Americans could have any clue where the real truth lies.


I generally go with the side I can check and assume the other guys are lying. Four years to score two failed prosecutions checks out. Breathless hand waves from Timcast, not so much.

Did you read the Durham Report itself, or consult with any credible sources?

Like Lawfare.

Notes on the Durham Report: A Reading Diary

He then turns to the FBI’s policies surrounding assessments and investigations of counterintelligence matters. His focus? The subheadings here are revealing: “Use of least intrusive means,” “Levels of investigation,” “The Confidential Human Source Guidelines,” “Analytic integrity.” Durham even has a subsection devoted to “Recently upgraded protections,” which is to say rules that have been put in place since the Russia investigation and in response to it but which were not in place at the time it was conducted. Following this is a long discussion of the requirements of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), which focuses on the protection of First Amendment protected activity.​
You can tell just by looking at these sections that Durham is going to find that the FBI did not use the least intrusive means of responding to the Downer information, that it opened Crossfire Hurricane at the wrong level of investigation, that it didn’t handle its confidential human source (presumably Steele) appropriately, that it didn’t respond with analytic integrity to information as it came in, and that it didn’t comply with FISA.​
Some of these points are true—and they have been known since the inspector general’s report back in 2019. Some of them are absurd. But they cumulatively offer a window into Durham’s thinking through the investigation. He is examining what he considers the FBI’s overreaction to the problem of Trump’s and his campaign’s and business’s relationship with Russia in 2016 and 2017—and how that overreaction might have violated FBI or DOJ policy or the law.​
This becomes even clearer as Durham turns to what he terms “the principal statutes that we considered to evaluate possible criminal conduct” in the investigation. Those statutes include some laws that almost any investigation would look at: the false statements statute (18 U.S.C § 1001), the perjury statute (18 U.S.C. § 1621), the law forbidding falsification of records (18 U.S.C. § 1519), and the obstruction of justice statute (18 U.S.C. § 1512(c)).​
But it also includes some very suggestive laws. Durham considered cases under the law prohibiting the violation of civil rights (18 U.S.C. § 242), for example. Now whose civil rights do you imagine the FBI might have been violating in Durham’s view?​
He looked at conspiracy to violate civil rights (18 U.S.C. § 241), perhaps imagining Jim Comey and Andy McCabe huddled in a room feeding dog treats to Pete Strzok while plotting about how to mess with poor Donald Trump and paint him as a tool of the Russians. He looked at more general conspiracies under 18 U.S.C. § 371, which is a useful statute if you’re pursuing conspiracy theories. He looked at illegal campaign contributions under 52 USC § 30116(a)(1)(A) and illegal foreign campaign contributions under 52 U.S.C. § 30121(a)(1)(A).​
He looked at money laundering under 18 U.S.C. § 1956(a)(1)(A). He even looked at disclosure of national defense information under 18 U.S.C. § 793(d).​
And, of course, he looked at fraud against the United States under 18 U.S.C. § 1031(a).​
I swear I’m not making any of this up. Durham appears to be admitting here what a bunch of analysts—myself included—have suspected for while: that he saw this investigation as an effort to expose and prosecute a malicious effort by the Hillary Clinton campaign to defraud the FBI into investigating Trump and thereby violate his civil rights, and the dupes at the FBI who either colluded with or fell for this effort.​
Remember, this entire investigation produced exactly one conviction—on exactly one count—and it didn’t have anything to do with any such nonsense.​

Durham spent four years fruitlessly chasing a Clinton conspiracy theory and in the end found nothing IG Horowitz didn't find first.
 

You got suckered. Taken in. Sold a bill of goods. Millions of people still think if given the chance, Fragilego Mussolini would get right back in there and "drain the swamp" for good. Because admitting you got swindled is hard. So instead (to echo what Jimmy said above), you try to paint Trump as the real victim here. He's not.
It is hard to admit you have been swindled no argument. But (for me at least) its more about fear than it is ego. Because if they can do it to a post POTUS, they can do it to me 100x better. I don't want to live in country where you are in constant fear they will lock you up and throw away the key if you happened to offend the wrong person working for the federal government.
How do you feel about living
in country where you are in constant fear they will lock you up and throw away the key if you happened to
...steal classified documents from the Whitehouse and, when asked to return them, lie about having them, and then lie some more about them not being classified anymore, because you declassified them with your mind?

Does that seem like the kind of fear a typical citizen like yourself needs to have?

How about living
in country where you are in constant fear they will lock you up and throw away the key if you happened to
...persuade a mob to storm the Capitol in an attempt to overturn the results of an election that you lost?

Is this genuinely something you fear you might be accused of, as an ordinary citizen?

The fact is, it seems that the "lock you up and throw away the key" thing is already something that could happen to most ordinary citizens, but that even committing obvious and severe crimes such as open sedition and theft of Top Secret documents won't get you arrested if you're a former POTUS, until months or even years of procrastination and detailed investigations have been conducted. Try that as an ordinary citizen, and you won't even have time to put your phone down after tweeting to brag about it before the handcuffs close on your wrists.

Trump is being given an incredibly and uniquely easy time over his crimes. And your fear that if even he can even be made to worry that his privileged circumstances might not last forever, you might one day not be granted similar unique privileges is beyond absurd.

They can already do to you the things you fear.

And they can't seem to do them to Trump, despite the obvious fact that he richly deserves to have them done to him; And despite the constant babyish whining from him about how unfairly he's being treated.

He is being unfairly treated, but only in the sense that the authorities are being unfairly obsequious to him, in a way they would never be to someone who hadn't been President.
 

Four years later, Durham has nothing to show for his time.

.
It is interesting how one side says this.... yet then the other side claims there is the evidence to expel Adam Schiff over the Durham report.



Makes one wonder how most Americans could have any clue where the real truth lies.

That's easy. "Not on YouTube".
 

You got suckered. Taken in. Sold a bill of goods. Millions of people still think if given the chance, Fragilego Mussolini would get right back in there and "drain the swamp" for good. Because admitting you got swindled is hard. So instead (to echo what Jimmy said above), you try to paint Trump as the real victim here. He's not.
It is hard to admit you have been swindled no argument. But (for me at least) its more about fear than it is ego. Because if they can do it to a post POTUS, they can do it to me 100x better. I don't want to live in country where you are in constant fear they will lock you up and throw away the key if you happened to offend the wrong person working for the federal government.
So, taking classified documents from the White House that don’t belong to him, claiming that he declassified them just by taking them, being asked to return them, refusing to do so, being subpoenaed to return them, giving some back but keeping others while having his lawyers lie that all have been returned, possibly having them moved around at his residence, and possibly shown to unknown people without proper clearance is just a simple case of “offending the wrong person in government”? Therefore it’s just a whimsical political persecution that would be hundred times worse for an average person? This is contortionist level logical reasoning to not admit that Trump actually violated the law and should be held to account if we are to continue to claim that no one is above the law in this country. Rapture-like cult, indeed!
While you are wondering about logical reasoning perhaps there are some question you might ask yourself as well? How did the FBI know where the documents were in the first place? And if everyone knew what the documents were and where they were, why was the search conducted at night? If Trump was unwilling to release said documents, why not just go in the place during daylight hours and not make such a spectacle out of it? And if these were such critical classified documents why did not the secret service do something to prevent this in the first place? The secret service need not prevent a POTUS from committing a crime but they are also American citizens and members of the federal government who should care about a POTUS respect for the law.

And finally this question. Since the search was conducted at night, how do we know what the documents really were and that others were not planted during the raid?
The answer to your first question actually answers the last one. When classified material on the level of "the President needs to see this" is taken from wherever it has been filed away, there is a chain of custody established. Where is file number X-14 on human intelligence in Syria? "That was signed out to agent Smith at 11:45am on Tuesday March 3rd." When it isn't returned, agent Smith is going to be questioned. Who did he give it to? Then that person is questioned. Who did they give it to? The President has it? Where? It was put in a box? What kind of box, where is it stored, who has access, and we're sending someone to retrieve it right away.

They knew what was missing, and had a pretty good idea of where it was because they took the time to question every single person who had hands or eyes on the documents. They likely waited until President Sticky Hands was away because they didn't want it to be an even bigger spectacle, and it is worth noting that Trump and the right wing shout machine is the one making it into a spectacle. They call it a "raid" and make it seem like the FBI kicked the doors down and held everyone at gunpoint while they trashed the place.

That's not what happened. They were allowed into the property by the Secret Service. It was not a "raid." It was a thorough search overseen by the Secret Service as well as Trump's attorney. It was nothing like an episode of "Cops." (Though it would have been hilarious to see him hauled out of the house shirtless and yelling at his wife.)
Not to mention that it didn't happen under the cover of nightime. It happened in the daylight hours., 9am to be specific.
 
I don't want to live in country where you are in constant fear they will lock you up and throw away the key if you happened to offend the wrong person working for the federal government.
You don’t. They cannot lock you up and throw away the key. And they can’t keep you locked up for “offending the wrong person working for the feds”. They have to charge you with something credible.

And it is beyond absurd to suppose that what is happening to Trump is in any way an indicator that you are at risk of the above.

Since, OBVIOUSLY, no one has locked him up and thrown away the key, even though, AND LISTEN CLOSELY HERE, Trump himself tried to do that to Hilary Clinton. He chanted “Lock Her Up! Lock Her Up!” And whipped up crowds to repeat it. And that is the VERY THING you fear - and Trump is the one who is doing it. Be mad at him. Be afraid of him. Be distrustful of him. He is a con man.


I’ll just quote this truth because you should read it again…
Trump is being given an incredibly and uniquely easy time over his crimes. And your fear that if even he can even be made to worry that his privileged circumstances might not last forever, you might one day not be granted similar unique privileges is beyond absurd.


Trump and his minions have lied to you. Over and over and over again. You should be FURIOUS with them. They have told you to fear that others will do what Trump himself is already doing. They have told you to hate the people who work to defend our laws. They have told you to do nothing about their own grift. They have told you to look the other way about their own lawlessness based on greed and arrogance.


They are LYING TO YOU AGAIN with the clip you showed above.

You should be furious with them. They want you to let them take everything from you and trample on your rights. And they do it by lying to you and trying to get you to believe others are doing it, not them.

It’s really hard to reject and push away someone you trusted when you find out they lied. I get that. It’s really hard. It’s hard to feel like you believed something that’s wrong.

But don’t blame yourself. Blame THEM. They are professionals at this. It’s what they do. Get away from them.
 

It’s really hard to reject and push away someone you trusted when you find out they lied. I get that. It’s really hard. It’s hard to feel like you believed something that’s wrong.
I'm having a discussion on another board (about my old life in the radio business) that seems relevant...albeit with less serious implications.

Long story short, the company I used to work for is now teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. They swooped in and bought up the entire CBS Radio division, and over the past 5 years since the acquisition (and 4 years after they laid me off) they've been going downhill. How far? Well the last time I cashed out my CBS stock it was a few hundred bucks for a handful of shares. Now?

If I had a roll of dimes I could buy 50 shares.

Yet this person I'm sparring with is staunchly defending the company. Do they work for them? Seems to be. In fact they know some very specific things about the stations I used to work for, and they're doing some mental gymnastics to wave away everything as just fine. Yes, it is very hard to let go of a cherished belief. It's hard to accept that your marriage is falling apart (this one took me a couple years), that your loved one is not long for the world (I'm steeling myself for this), or that the thing you've dedicated your life to is ending and there's little you can do about it (see above).

Even Fonzie had trouble with it...

 
If you are against an organized and corrupt federal government you are probably going to lose even if you are innocent. There are many innocent people out there who have accepted plea bargains and lied about their guilt in order to reduce their punishment.

Not saying that was the case here but where politics is involved its enough to make one wonder out loud.
Common street criminals, almost certainly. J6 defendants? No way.
 
Paul Craig Roberts has a long history of being incredibly wrong and a first class douche.
There are a lot of people who would agree with you. But there is one thing different about Roberts in that he does not accept corporate advertising on his site. His funding comes from donations from his readers and does not appear financed in any other way.

So he may be a loony tune with a Phd degree. But his articles are probably NOT being influenced by corporations and/or other special interests. Which gives him a lot of credibility that other journalists no longer have.
1) That isn't evidence he's not taking corporate money. Easy enough to have employees do it in their names. Even easier to take special interest money.

2) It's simply replacing one master with another--you rely on donations, you have to have juicy enough content to get people to donate. Doesn't matter if it's true or not. Donation-supported newsletters about non-controversial topics have no reason not to be trusted but if it's controversial, watch out. It's the same thing that drives the news to exaggerate things and lie. They want to make their news "better" than the other guy's--and other than investigative journalism news is a commodity good. That's why I won't trust any of the video news--it's all driven by the quest for eyeballs more than the truth.
 
I agree with you and find it impossible to argue your point.

Furthermore, even more baffling to me is Trump claiming he would "drain the swamp". This same swamp of actors appears causing him all manner of personal legal trouble at this point. He did not even help himself.
When something is baffling there are two likely explanations:

1) You're missing some big piece of the puzzle.

2) You have misinterpreted a piece of the puzzle.

In this case it's almost certainly the second--you think His Flatulence intended what he said.
 
Quick question; if Durham believes nothing untoward happened during Trump's election campaign, does he ever explain the unprecedented number of Trump employees pleading guilty to crimes based on the findings of Meuller's investigation?

Oh, he doesn't? Yeah, that totally makes fucking sense. :rolleyes: Yet another swing and a miss from RVonse.
 
Furthermore, even more baffling to me is Trump claiming he would "drain the swamp". This same swamp of actors appears causing him all manner of personal legal trouble at this point. He did not even help himself.

He said it because he knew people like you would fall for it. How many years have you carried water for the guy only to be proven wrong time and again?
 


They are LYING TO YOU AGAIN with the clip you showed above.

You should be furious with them. They want you to let them take everything from you and trample on your rights. And they do it by lying to you and trying to get you to believe others are doing it, not them.

It’s really hard to reject and push away someone you trusted when you find out they lied. I get that. It’s really hard. It’s hard to feel like you believed something that’s wrong.

But don’t blame yourself. Blame THEM. They are professionals at this. It’s what they do. Get away from them.
I was and continue to be most offended by these lies found here (and you should be too)

: from 1:25:41 to 1:28:10

A lot of otherwise intelligent people fell for these lies including just about everyone on this board. And as pointed out by Gabbard, (and unlike most of Trump's lies) this will happen again in the future going forward since it is integral to the federal structure and has been no accountability.

These are the lies that go at the heart of our democracy and are 100x more damaging to our country than a con man like Trump is capable of.
 
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