Star Trek Discovery?

[KeepTalking]

what you said here is both true and in no way contradicts what i said that you were replying to, lol.

the orville is more "star trek" in spirit than STD, it's more of a star trek show than STD.
yes, STD is trying (and failing, miserably) to be a serious compelling space drama, but it could be trying to be a pancake wrapped around a sausage on a stick for all the difference it makes to the fact that it is NOT star trek, and the orville is.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Now that fall sweeps are over, the networks are in maintenance mode. Tonight Fox replayed the pilot episode of The Orville, and I watched to see if there was anything I'd missed.

Nope. There wasn't anything I'd missed, and there was a reason.



It was safe. There wasn't a moment in the show were you couldn't see what was coming a light year away. The conflicts between Ed and Kelly were superficial and predictable. There was never any doubt that the intrepid Orville crew would come out on top at the end of the episode. Everything was packaged up with a bow on top for the long-suffering Trek fans. It was easy, the ship looked lovely, and everyone in the cast was pitch perfect in playing their paint by numbers roles.

I'm sure the focus group was satisfied with the end product.


And that's the problem. The original Star Trek was challenging. The audience was hit with uncomfortable situations and pointed social commentary. It wasn't easy.


The Orville is easy.


Discovery, by all accounts, is hard. Controversial. Something that people will argue about.

That may be a fair critique of the pilot episode, but it does not hold true over the course of the 6 episodes that have aired so far, and in fact, this changes as soon as episode 3, "About a Girl". That episode seems predictable, everything flows more or less like a typical TNG episode, and you expect the crew to "come out on top", as you say. Then they throw a totally unexpected curve at the end. Until that point it was just a humorous take on Star Trek, complete with dick jokes, which was enough for me, given that it is done well. Now I appreciate that it is also a somewhat more mature version of Start Trek, in terms of honestly dealing with the themes it tackles, while still retaining that humor. Of course, the style of humor will be off-putting for some, as it can be quite sophomoric, I just hope you give it more of a try than just watching the pilot episode before forming your final opinion of it.

 

[Malintent]

I just started watching the Orville. Fantastic show... I love it. It is somewhere between a homage and a parody of the Star Trek franchise... very funny, entertaining, and also holds true to the philosophical and sociological focus of plots.

 

[crazyfingers]

Regarding Orville, I don't know that I could bring myself to watch anything that brings money to FOX/Rupert Murdoch.

 

[jab]

I've watched all the episodes of this so far, and it strikes me as what teenage Seth McFarlane thinks Star Trek should be. A simplified copy of Next Generation with jokes.

I've only seen the first episode of Discovery, but it seems to be a serious effort to make a serious show.

what you said here is both true and in no way contradicts what i said that you were replying to, lol.

the orville is more "star trek" in spirit than STD, it's more of a star trek show than STD.
yes, STD is trying (and failing, miserably) to be a serious compelling space drama, but it could be trying to be a pancake wrapped around a sausage on a stick for all the difference it makes to the fact that it is NOT star trek, and the orville is.

If the Orville is a Star Trek show it is the worst of the bunch.

 

[RavenSky]

it's even worse than all that.

looking at this screen capture from the episode, none of the windows are moving... which means either:
1. the inner and outer rings aren't rotating, this is literally just the 'roof' of each section being able to slide around like a Space Fidget Spinner.
2. the CGI department was too stupid/lazy/incompetent to properly animate the sections spinning and just did it for the 'top' as a mistake.

hehehehehe... god this show is a load of bullshit.

I personally like the 'giant space fidget spinner' explanation best

 

[crazyfingers]

The kids know that I'm not so keen on Discovery. I'll have to call it a space fidget spinner and see what they say.

Watched #6 tonight. Why can't the pronounce Sarek correctly?

 

[Sarpedon]

How do they pronounce it? He's one of the best characters in all of Star Trek!

 

[crazyfingers]

They pronounce it Serek. An E instead of an A after the S.

 

[Underseer]

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Now that fall sweeps are over, the networks are in maintenance mode. Tonight Fox replayed the pilot episode of The Orville, and I watched to see if there was anything I'd missed.

Nope. There wasn't anything I'd missed, and there was a reason.



It was safe. There wasn't a moment in the show were you couldn't see what was coming a light year away. The conflicts between Ed and Kelly were superficial and predictable. There was never any doubt that the intrepid Orville crew would come out on top at the end of the episode. Everything was packaged up with a bow on top for the long-suffering Trek fans. It was easy, the ship looked lovely, and everyone in the cast was pitch perfect in playing their paint by numbers roles.

I'm sure the focus group was satisfied with the end product.


And that's the problem. The original Star Trek was challenging. The audience was hit with uncomfortable situations and pointed social commentary. It wasn't easy.


The Orville is easy.


Discovery, by all accounts, is hard. Controversial. Something that people will argue about.

That may be a fair critique of the pilot episode, but it does not hold true over the course of the 6 episodes that have aired so far, and in fact, this changes as soon as episode 3, "About a Girl". That episode seems predictable, everything flows more or less like a typical TNG episode, and you expect the crew to "come out on top", as you say. Then they throw a totally unexpected curve at the end. Until that point it was just a humorous take on Star Trek, complete with dick jokes, which was enough for me, given that it is done well. Now I appreciate that it is also a somewhat more mature version of Start Trek, in terms of honestly dealing with the themes it tackles, while still retaining that humor. Of course, the style of humor will be off-putting for some, as it can be quite sophomoric, I just hope you give it more of a try than just watching the pilot episode before forming your final opinion of it.

Or that species of mostly males who arbitrarily give sexual reassignment surgery to girls. That episode asked difficult questions about the line between respecting another culture and interfering because you find one of their practices objectionable. It doesn't offer easy answers at the same time it plays the situation for laughs.

- - - Updated - - -

Regarding Orville, I don't know that I could bring myself to watch anything that brings money to FOX/Rupert Murdoch.

Maybe, but Seth McFarlane is kind of everything your typical FOX News watcher hates.

 

[Underseer]

OK, this is a highly speculative explanation of the spore drive, but with no explanation of the rotating saucer section:



One thing we do know: they are going to have to come up with an explanation for why the spore drive does not exist in TOS, TNG, DS9, or Voyager. Since TOS is only 5-10 years in the future from the start of this show, that suggests that they are going to find a pretty horrible flaw in the spore drive.

Honestly, this kind of thing sounds like it would have been more interesting in a sequel rather than a prequel. What is their obsession with going pre-TOS with the newest shows, anyway? Why couldn't this have been concurrent to or after DS9, say?

 

[purple_kathryn]

I'm loving Discovery

I'm loving Orville

(I would agree that Orville is more a parody and feels more like TNG Trek)

Discovery is something new. That ending to episode 6. I knew what he was doing and still

 

[Sarpedon]

Yeah, especially as in DS9 they introduced the idea that warp drives were causing permanent damage to the spatial structure of the Universe, and imposed a 'speed limit' to compensate for this. They would be looking for an alternative! The spore drive would have been a perfect plot for a post DS9 series. Didn't voyager encounter that one alien species with the living starships? They finally get back to earth, and bring that information with them. Boom! spore drive!

 

[Malintent]

what you said here is both true and in no way contradicts what i said that you were replying to, lol.

the orville is more "star trek" in spirit than STD, it's more of a star trek show than STD.
yes, STD is trying (and failing, miserably) to be a serious compelling space drama, but it could be trying to be a pancake wrapped around a sausage on a stick for all the difference it makes to the fact that it is NOT star trek, and the orville is.

If the Orville is a Star Trek show it is the worst of the bunch.

True, if you insist it take itself as stiffly seriously as all the rest. This one is refreshingly light, but still with compelling undertones in plot. But, to each their own... watch the first (painfully forced) season of TNG instead... I'd call this series the exact opposite of what TNG was during the first 1.5 seasons (pre-Tasha death - she REALLY needed to go).

 

[Malintent]

Yeah, especially as in DS9 they introduced the idea that warp drives were causing permanent damage to the spatial structure of the Universe, and imposed a 'speed limit' to compensate for this. They would be looking for an alternative! The spore drive would have been a perfect plot for a post DS9 series. Didn't voyager encounter that one alien species with the living starships? They finally get back to earth, and bring that information with them. Boom! spore drive!

I think the "ripping of subspace due to high warp speed" was introduced in TNG, not DS9. "Terrorists" were sabotaging ships passing through their space because their area of the galaxy was particularly sensitive to the effects... and it was affecting their planet... appeal to the Federation allegedly went ignored... so that is how we were introduced to the issue, as I remember it.

Regarding plot variations and 'could haves"... three classic Trek elements working together destroy all plots.. you must suspend disbelief quite a bit... between the Transporter, Replicator, and Time Travel.. no plot twist or challenge has more than a trivial solution (that the writers ignore, for, well, a plot)...

Just pass the person through the transporter and apply the previous pattern in the buffer to heal any disease or injury... why have any medical challenge?

Troy can sense the general intentions of a captain on another ship several kilometers away. Why is there ever a plot involving anyone lying about anything anywhere on the ship?

Or, my favorite, "just go back in time and do it over".

 

[Jayjay]

OK, this is a highly speculative explanation of the spore drive, but with no explanation of the rotating saucer section:



One thing we do know: they are going to have to come up with an explanation for why the spore drive does not exist in TOS, TNG, DS9, or Voyager. Since TOS is only 5-10 years in the future from the start of this show, that suggests that they are going to find a pretty horrible flaw in the spore drive.

Honestly, this kind of thing sounds like it would have been more interesting in a sequel rather than a prequel. What is their obsession with going pre-TOS with the newest shows, anyway? Why couldn't this have been concurrent to or after DS9, say?

I think they've already come up with an explanation: Spore drive needs a tardigrade to operate or it's useless, and only one tardigrade is known to exist in the entire universe. Human replacement needs banned eugenics experiments, and side effects may include lingering evil mirror images.

They might destroy the spore network in the series, but given that it's the plot device that keeps the series afloat, I don't think they will.

 

[Underseer]

OK, this is a highly speculative explanation of the spore drive, but with no explanation of the rotating saucer section:



One thing we do know: they are going to have to come up with an explanation for why the spore drive does not exist in TOS, TNG, DS9, or Voyager. Since TOS is only 5-10 years in the future from the start of this show, that suggests that they are going to find a pretty horrible flaw in the spore drive.

Honestly, this kind of thing sounds like it would have been more interesting in a sequel rather than a prequel. What is their obsession with going pre-TOS with the newest shows, anyway? Why couldn't this have been concurrent to or after DS9, say?

I think they've already come up with an explanation: Spore drive needs a tardigrade to operate or it's useless, and only one tardigrade is known to exist in the entire universe. Human replacement needs banned eugenics experiments, and side effects may include lingering evil mirror images.

They might destroy the spore network in the series, but given that it's the plot device that keeps the series afloat, I don't think they will.

Thanks for clearing that up. I've only seen the pilot episode. Haven't sprung for the subscription.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

OK, this is a highly speculative explanation of the spore drive, but with no explanation of the rotating saucer section:



One thing we do know: they are going to have to come up with an explanation for why the spore drive does not exist in TOS, TNG, DS9, or Voyager. Since TOS is only 5-10 years in the future from the start of this show, that suggests that they are going to find a pretty horrible flaw in the spore drive.

Honestly, this kind of thing sounds like it would have been more interesting in a sequel rather than a prequel. What is their obsession with going pre-TOS with the newest shows, anyway? Why couldn't this have been concurrent to or after DS9, say?

I think they've already come up with an explanation: Spore drive needs a tardigrade to operate or it's useless, and only one tardigrade is known to exist in the entire universe. Human replacement needs banned eugenics experiments, and side effects may include lingering evil mirror images.

They might destroy the spore network in the series, but given that it's the plot device that keeps the series afloat, I don't think they will.

I kept reading it trying to figure out how that made sense... then ohhhhh!

 

[Patooka]

I discovered two things about Discovery and The Orville that doesn't bode well this week:

Discovery was created by Alex Kurtzman. I've gotta ask, has any of his work been watchable?
The Orville is produced by 20th Century Fox. Enjoy this season because it's a done deal this show is going to be cancelled.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I discovered two things about Discovery and The Orville that doesn't bode well this week:

Discovery was created by Alex Kurtzman. I've gotta ask, has any of his work been watchable?
The Orville is produced by 20th Century Fox. Enjoy this season because it's a done deal this show is going to be cancelled.

Umm... maybe you haven't noticed, but Fox doesn't question anything that Seth MacFarlene does since Family Guy came back. He could pitch a show about watching paint dry while he makes some stupid quips... and Fox would green light it. Really, that is the only explanation for Family Guy still being on.

 

[Ford]

I discovered two things about Discovery and The Orville that doesn't bode well this week:

Discovery was created by Alex Kurtzman. I've gotta ask, has any of his work been watchable?
The Orville is produced by 20th Century Fox. Enjoy this season because it's a done deal this show is going to be cancelled.

Umm... maybe you haven't noticed, but Fox doesn't question anything that Seth MacFarlene does since Family Guy came back. He could pitch a show about watching paint dry while he makes some stupid quips... and Fox would green light it. Really, that is the only explanation for Family Guy still being on.

Not quite. American Dad was shuffled off to basic cable awhile back, and the Family Guy spinoff The Cleveland Show had a pretty short life.

Kudos to them for putting Cosmos out there, but it was a one-off in the off season.

Orville is also a lot more expensive than an animated show, I'm guessing.

Discovery, on the other hand, has already been renewed for a second season.